350X Frame gusseting and reinforcing, Another one [Archive]

Dirtcrasher

01-03-2009, 10:10 PM

I finally got most of the work done on this frame.

The most important part is yet to come....

The left frame rail cracks on nearly any well ridden 85 350X. Honda updated it with a simple extension to the stock frame mount bracket.

I plane on making my own wrap around bracket/mount for this with additional supports.

I've been hesitant to pull out one of my crate motors to get the last part done. But, if you don't actually toss a motor in there, you run the risk of having things not line up after sandblasting/painting or powder coating..... NOT a good thing after the frame is bought, reinforced and finish coated.

It really is allot of work to get it all together. I made templates of all the braces so the next time would be a bit easier. I didn't want to just hack triangles on there, thats why I put a curve on the exposed part of the plate.

Here are some pics:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/FramePlate1.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/Frameplate2.jpg

The next one is still smokin :lol: I caught it on fire a few times..............:D

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/StillSMOKIN.jpg

Here are the raw materials, I ground down .125 or 1/8 steel for the plates.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/BarePlates2.jpg

And last here is a shot of the right side completed....

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/Weldedontheframe.jpg

I tried my best to make sure there was no interference with that rear brake master cylinder. With the resevoir feed hose and the hyd line, you can't brace this area as much as you want. Honestly, with all the plates welded in, I don't think there will be any sort of a frame issue..... I pulled the master off of my 350X and mounted it on TANKS frame just to be sure.

So, it's not done yet and I didn't get a pic of the left side yet but I'll post one up soon or after I finish that side.

DEEPA has a 350X lower end and I'd rather use that for a jig rather than dig out one of my precious crate motors for the last bracing :naughty:

Mikey, can you try and bring that lower end by next Sat??

I've traced all the braces onto paper and when I'm done, I can fax the templates to anyone who would like to use a similar brace. To each there own, but I wanted to add a bit of style to these guys :welcome:

honda250sx

01-03-2009, 10:50 PM

DC you can lay a bead bro!

Nice work. God i need come to Mass and hang out...

super90

01-03-2009, 11:23 PM

Looks damn good, real nice beads too!

73atc70

01-04-2009, 12:12 AM

That is sick! I had to hire a guy locally do brace my frame....it turned out pretty nice too but it cost me $$....I'm jealous!

tanks350x

01-04-2009, 12:31 AM

:D :D :D :D :D Wow I had no idea that there were going to be that many braces in there:D :D :D :D :D ,, Awesome job!:w00t:

tanks350x

01-04-2009, 12:44 AM

DC if you need a set of motor mount bolts, let me know. I got a nice set for it, a while back.. And if you haven't noticed yet, the 2 bolts that are in the Tank mount holes are for the lower rear motor mount.. I didn't want to lose them. They fit, so I put them there

daniel_250r

01-04-2009, 12:55 AM

i am wishing i could weld like you

Dirtcrasher

01-05-2009, 07:06 PM

i am wishing i could weld like you

Allot of it is the welder and the prep. Many of the cheap 115V welders gave me piss poor results......

Just to show a bit more about the 85 frame versus the 86 frame here are some pics. In 86 they added a simple reinforcement piece behind the motor mount that wraps around about 1/3 or so of the frame tubing, it's really not much but it does seem to help....

Stock 85 - I just tacked it back on, but thats it, thats all there is:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/85Frameuselessmount.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/85NoGussetmotormount.jpg

And the 86 gusset/wrap:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/86FrameGussetmotormount3.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/86FrameGussetmotormount2.jpg

I had to reweld this area on TANKS frame because it was already cracked - in stock form! And believe me, it was a very nice frame!:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/85Tanksframecrackreweld.jpg

And last is another shot of the 86 style improvement and the friggen thing is ALREADY CRACKED!! My spare frame was just as mint as Tanks :rolleyes: :crazy:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/86350Xframe-ALREADYCRACKED.jpg

Apparently, no matter how good these frames look, certain parts must be addressed before painting and or powder coating... Thanks to BILL or MR ATC for posting all the 350X frame flaws at 3wheeler.org which certainly helped me with the bracing I did :beer

tanks350x

01-05-2009, 10:05 PM

wow I guess I didn't look it over as well as I thought I did:wondering But I'm glad you found that extra crack, and put a fresh bead or 2 on it:D

Dammit!

01-05-2009, 10:47 PM

I'm wishing DC lived in Phoenix. :lol:

fabiodriven

01-05-2009, 11:02 PM

Keep the cat hair off the frames!

honda250sx

01-05-2009, 11:08 PM

Keep the cat hair off the frames!

LMAO, Fabio KNOWS!!!:beer

oscarmayer

01-05-2009, 11:10 PM

Dang! even the frame got some p....... n/m bad yoke. ;)

looks like some awesome work man!

Dirtcrasher

01-11-2009, 12:53 PM

After a couple more hours yesterday, I just have a bit of smoothing to do on the tube I wrapped around the frame.

Here is the tube I made

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/Roundbracket3.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/Roundframebracket.jpg

Here it is being installed, you have to weld a bit, heat it, bend it and weld it again. Repeat this until it's tight all the way around the frame. The holes are so I can bond the inner portion of the tube to the frame

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/Installingroundbracket.jpg

And here is everything as it came together. Every brace and bracket end up being joined together.....

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/Insidearea1.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/Leftsidemiddle.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/Leftsidemiddle.jpg

And last is where I reinforced the swinger bolt hole

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/swingerbolthole.jpg

They are 1/2" thick washers so I have to drill them out to a bit over 14MM, maybe just a 9/16 drill would be fine.....I just want to smooth the tube area wher I filled in the holes. The rest will have to sandblasted really well to smooth it all out.

I will say this, it wasn't really hard, but this was very time consuming and a good mig welder is essential :D

tanks350x

01-11-2009, 01:05 PM

Looks awesome DC.. I'm in the process of trying to find a powder coater in my area. I have a couple of leads.. We'll see what happens on that front. If that doesn't pan out, My friend that did my tank offered to paint it with EMRON Dupont, which is (if I'm not mistaken) The factory paint that Honda used.. He said that it is pretty nice stuff.... I'll stop by the hardware store and pick up some Shoe Goo for ya when you want me to come get it

honda250sx

01-11-2009, 01:25 PM

EMRON is very tough. WE use it on snowplows. Its tough.

Powder it in some super mirror red and it will be beautiful.

jeffatc250r

01-12-2009, 11:03 AM

Nice work D/C! Hey tanks, the place i get my frames powdered is in belchertown MA at K@K atv. If i recall correctly its 200 bux for standard colors if the thing is already sand blasted and 300 for candy colors. there number is 413-687-9087

tanks350x

01-12-2009, 09:14 PM

Thanks Jeff, I'll keep that in mind if I can get those kind of funds together to do it

Dirtcrasher

01-12-2009, 09:51 PM

Thank you Jeff!!

And thanks Roy for making more work feel appreciated!! :beer

Until you take a good look at the 350X frame, you don't realize how many flaws and weak areas/poor welding there actually is....... That 350X thumper is one heavy engine that relies immensely on that frame to give it a strong backbone.......

tanks350x

01-12-2009, 10:04 PM

And thanks Roy for making more work feel appreciated!! :beer

Any time bud, always a pleasure to do business with ya:beer :w00t:

Dirtcrasher

02-25-2009, 10:17 PM

So..... I called up TANK a few weeks back and asked him to bring the frame back to me. I just couldn't let him paint it without reinforcing the seat post area in the back of the frame.

I had previously ignored it because the 1985 frame he had bought, was perfect in that area but after I did all that work to the "known" failure points, I just couldn't let him spend the money to paint or PC the frame without working on that area.

I had a few thoughts myself - In front of that area that fails, I was planning on fabricating up some custom .125 flat plate that would contour to that area and Mig weld it all the way around. Then I wondered if I should build up the area where the grommet for the seat posts goes in also.

Anyhow, after all my own thoughts I sent a PM to Mr ATC (Bill) and asked him what he had done in the past. He sent me a picture and explained he felt it should be almost all the way forwards so I ran with that.

The plates I had cut out of cardboard that I was going to weld in front of that area prone to cracking may have very well done the same thing, but Tank and I had enough time and money into this that I just decided to do what Bill suggested.

I had to heat up and bend the support rod, I used the Oxy/acet and a wire brush to get the paint off too.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/seatareaandbrace.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/Wholething.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/Formedweldedandinplace.jpg

It's 5/16ths solid rod and I welded it all along the weak points and also o either side of the frame rails.

This should take care of mostly ALL the 350X frame failures. I think people misinterpret the 350X frame to be weak. It's not any different than any of the other models, other than the 3509X motor is one huge and heavy powerplant and the ATC itself for it's purpose, is quite heavy.

Anyhow, it's done now and I look forward to seeing it in paint or powder this summer :beer:

The Goat

02-25-2009, 10:22 PM

dc I know you've said before you rarely take on work for just purely money...but after my frame makes its way to jason...would you be willing to gusset it.

I'll save some money and I'll pay you well for your time.

tanks350x

02-25-2009, 10:47 PM

Here is somewhat of an update on the whole project... I have been acquiring some new parts.. Although I have a complete running 350X that I just initially planned on just swapping all the parts over, from frame, to frame. I couldn't pass on some of the new stuff I got... I got another engine, .020 over, new wiring harness, and some other odds and ends. I now know what you mean DC when you say that the 350X engine is freakin heavy!!! holy mother of god!!! My hernia thanks the weight of it :lol:.. As far as the frame is concerned, I will not take the cheap way out, just to get it done. With all the time invested in it, I want it to be rite.. By no means is the finished product gonna be a show piece but, It will be a dependable, more than sturdy enough daily rider :naughty: Did I ever mention DC That,, You Da Man!!?????

chris200x

02-26-2009, 01:23 AM

Eh.. It seems like everytime I wash my bike I discover new cracks. (my 86 frame was gusseted before I did my rebuild.) Last time out I noticed it's starting to crack again around both holes in the seat latch area. Now just todAy I notice the mount for the back motor mount right above the sprocket is starting to crack as well. Not sure what to do now. Guess I'll just keep on having it spot welded as I discover more and more. Wish I could afford one of those new chromoloy frames some of you guys are talking about having made.

threewheelin-feelin

02-26-2009, 02:10 AM

i upgraded to the 86 frame and had an extra bead ran down my motor mount...looks like one hell of a job you are doing :Bounce

Hoosier_Daddy

02-26-2009, 05:19 AM

Dirtcrasher

02-26-2009, 02:53 PM

Looks like awesome work, man.

This may sound like a dumb question but do both side need reinforced or is it just the right side is weak?

Also, would you be willing to make some gussets and sell them to me so i can reinforce mine? No problem if you don't want to take on the job. just thought i'd ask.

I copied them on paper and I can either mail them to you or fax them to you or anyone else. All you need is 1/8th steel plate. But, you guys will have to figure out what you want to do for the left side, I used tubing I have but I have very little left. You can see what I did in this post.

You don't have to go nuts on the right side, just the plain 1/8 steel plate.

Cade - We'll have to see how things go. When I'm working I'm too busy for projects like that. It really was a ton of work.

I can cut up the plates for any of you guys and you would have to custom fit them just a bit. I just like to try to do things reasonable yet not take up allot of my time that I could be building and fixing my own stuff.

honda250sx

02-26-2009, 04:55 PM

Steve's frame shop, steve speaking, how may we help you?

Dirtcrasher

02-26-2009, 05:06 PM

^ LOL.... If only I had a full shop at my services :(

I sent you an email....

The Goat

02-26-2009, 07:17 PM

I'll take a set of plates if you don't mine banging some out. Price and paypal?

If worst comes to worst, I can weld them on there and it'll just take a couple of hours to clean it up later with a grinder... Gorilla weld HO!

Russell 350X

02-26-2009, 08:21 PM

Damn Steve, thats nice! I may have to send you my frame next winter....if you dont mind :)

tanks350x

03-13-2009, 02:40 PM

I dropped the frame off this morning at the powder coater,,, 10-14 day turn around, is what they told me.. I took a quick tour of their shop, and they do some nice work:w00t: I can't wait to see the finished product:naughty: :naughty:

tri-Z ripper

03-19-2009, 06:45 PM

Holy crap DC if i showed you a pic of what i paid a $100 for someone to fix one side of my tri-z frame you would laugh and the person was supposed to be a professional! lol damn you do nice work!

The Goat

03-19-2009, 07:37 PM

Steve, nevermind on those gussets, you prolly never saw it anyways, but just wanted to let you know in case you did.

tanks350x

03-26-2009, 11:04 PM

Well , Like I said in a previous post... I did NOT want to cut corners to save a few bucks on this frame. I got it back from the powder coaters today and I really think it came out great.. I didn't wan't to do an injustice for all of DC's hard work either.. The shop that did it was super reasonable on pricing as well.. The color might not be spot on, but it's very close!:w00t: :w00t: Here's a few pics.,, Gotta make ole DC happy:naughty: Mind you, my lighting in my house is terrible and I think my camera might be on it's way out,,,, oh well
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll124/tankispmaximus/Frameswappicsthebeginning023.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll124/tankispmaximus/Frameswappicsthebeginning024.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll124/tankispmaximus/Frameswappicsthebeginning025.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll124/tankispmaximus/Frameswappicsthebeginning026.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll124/tankispmaximus/Frameswappicsthebeginning027.jpg

What do you think?,,, I think it looks great!!!:w00t:

The Goat

03-26-2009, 11:12 PM

definitely sexy.

put it under some reallly white light when you snap pictures...and it'd look even better.

I'm usually not for red...but that thing looks damned good.

AutoXer

03-26-2009, 11:16 PM

Yeah buddy ...... you know some times its worth waiting a little longer and biting the bullet to get the best results Looks great

Dirtcrasher

03-27-2009, 12:21 PM

Now ya know why I curved those gussets, they look like they belong on there!!

Nice stuff Roy.....

Hoosier_Daddy

03-27-2009, 01:19 PM

That looks awesome!

ThinktwiceZ71

03-27-2009, 02:56 PM

looks awesome man ! :beer

chris200x

03-27-2009, 02:57 PM

That looks top notch Tanks! you get it done locally correct? May I ask how much it cost ya?

When I had my triz frame done in black it cost me a lil' over 200. but the guy did it right and pulled a few snapped bolts and old race and even went and ran a thread through all the holes. definitly worth it when you have a qualitly job done like that IMO.

JohnR.

03-27-2009, 05:07 PM

That looks great. I'm hoping mine looks like that in a few months. :)

John

tanks350x

03-27-2009, 05:30 PM

That looks top notch Tanks! you get it done locally correct? May I ask how much it cost ya?
Thanks Chris, It's not really locally to my house but, it I drive by the place almost every day..I had considerd using people here on the site to do it but, I got to thinking about the whole shipping idea and changed my mind. The last thing I would've wanted was, for it to get damaged in any way shape or form.. Not that it would but, you just never know... As far as how much it cost me, lets just say that it's very close, if not the same to what you paid for your Z to get done;) To me that's reasonable, hell I couldn't do it :lol:

Dirtcrasher

03-27-2009, 07:31 PM

tanks350x

03-27-2009, 08:05 PM

^ Thats the thing, it would be about 125$ to ship it two ways so if he found a good local shop, I'll be loading Roy's truck with an 86 200X frame :D

2 Questions

1) Do you need taps or help tapping the powder out of the frame threads (Chris's post reminded me)

2) What does the VIN look like now? Can you see it still?

Don't make excuses about the color, it looks perfect to me!!

#1.They have a guy that preps the frames after being media blasted. What he does, he puts bolts in every thread hole he can find so when it gets powdered, everythings is perfect
#2 The vin# is still perfectly ledgible, I was going to take a picture of it to show you but my camera is a POS.
As far as the color goes, I tried putting my tail light assembly up to match it up, and its a little off. The only thing I was concerned about was the brake pedal linkage mounts. That was the other reason why I ended up taking off the wraps last night. To my suprise, they didn't powder them so everything should just bolt on with no issues.....
The only thing I will have an issue with, is the ground bolt on the left side of the frame,, remember? the one that was a little tweaked?, they did powder that but, that's it... Wait to you see this thing in person Steve, my camera does it no justice at all:D :D

The Goat

03-27-2009, 11:12 PM

guys it's 25 bucks to ship a frame ups... not that much.

I love how smooth it looks like liquid.

Dirtcrasher

03-27-2009, 11:24 PM

^ Goat, we get conflicting info all the time....... UPS wanted a Box, FedEx called it oversized and some places won't allow "just shrinkwrap".

250SX frame cost me 58$ to Ohio.
350X frame cost me 87$ from CA
Banshee frame from me to CA was 120$

People say Greyhound is the cheapest.

I really think it's who you get at the friggen counter!!!!!!!!!!!

chris200x

03-27-2009, 11:29 PM

UPS (at a staples store) or the post office will take it just wrapped in shrinkwrap. not sure about the others.

UPS from PA to VA was 38 bucks check with the post office it may even be cheaper. either way it still sucks having to pay for both ways. :(

Dirtcrasher

03-28-2009, 12:06 AM

That would be nasty to stroll into a Staples with a shrink wrapped 350X frame :lol:

PA to VA is chicken.... The only guy I'd ship my frame to is Buster Brownzzzzz PC Palace!! And I think he's more than a few states from me.

Sorry TANK, were just dizGUSTin stuff here :D :beer:

tanks350x

03-28-2009, 12:19 AM

It's ok with me, Hell it's your thread after all isn't it? :lol:

SeaBass8

03-28-2009, 11:08 AM

Thats one nice looking OEM, NOS, Mint, Mint, Mint, Hondaline, Reproduction, Aftermarket, Original, Powder Coated frame you got there! shens

J/K couldnt resist.:lol:

tanks350x

03-28-2009, 11:14 AM

^ Thats the thing, it would be about 125$ to ship it two ways so if he found a good local shop, I'll be loading Roy's truck with an 86 200X frame :D
Any time you want to do that, let me know..I'm looking at their business card as we speak,,
Services Include: Powder Coating, Media Blasting, Parts Restoration, and Ceramic Coating... Their website is down but I could give you a number if you want,, let me know
Tank

tanks350x

03-28-2009, 11:16 AM

Thats one nice looking OEM, NOS, Mint, Mint, Mint, Hondaline, Reproduction, Aftermarket, Original, Powder Coated frame you got there! shens

J/K couldnt resist.:lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
The pictures do it no justice at all, trust me, But thanks:D

Dirtcrasher

03-28-2009, 01:51 PM

I know what ya meant Johnny!! :lol:

tanks350x

03-28-2009, 02:02 PM

I just was able to get on their website, It doesn't seem to have any project pics. but here it is anyway
http://www.goodhues.net/services.html

JohnR.

03-28-2009, 05:39 PM

For the guys in PA there is a place in Hatfield called "JNZ Finishing" that does really nice work. I've known the guy for a long time from the Mitsubishi performance parts/tuning business he runs so I had him do my CalFab Tecate arm. He is very reasonable with his prices. I believe it was $40 to powdercoat my arm (it was already bead blasted and ready to coat). It was like an extra $20 to have him put a couple of coats of a very durable clear that is used for car rims on the arm. He told me that a frame would be around $125 if it was already blasted. Personally, I've had things get lost by the USPS, UPS, and FedEx so I don't think I'd ship an entire frame. I was nervous about them losing my arm as it was.

John

tanks350x

04-28-2009, 08:28 AM

Just went through this whole thread again. Why not? it's my frame :lol: When I bought this frame off of Ebay, it cost me $103 for the frame, and $49 to ship from Ca. to Ma. When it showed up at my house, it was shrinkwrapped, sitting in my front lawn

Vealmonkey

03-01-2010, 03:52 PM

Bumping this thread for informational purposes so it will be more easily available.

Dirtcrasher

03-01-2010, 04:35 PM

^ At least when can FIND it then!!

We have to talk to Billy about the search button and see if we can fix it up....

If I can't even find MY TOPICS, then I'm either stupid (which is debatable, lol) or it's not working.

Vealmonkey

03-01-2010, 06:14 PM

Billy said it was a software issue and he is waiting for an update. I can't hardly find my own threads either. It's very frustrating. Especially when you are all snowed in with nowhere to go except outside to shovel snow. LOL

Billy Golightly

03-04-2010, 02:51 PM

Veal/DC, there is a thread in the feedback forum regarding the search process. Please check it out and give me your thoughts. This release we're on now, 4.02 was suppose to have been a major improvement in search results. If you guys are still having issues I need your help to track them down.

devilman

09-01-2010, 01:57 PM

I took my 350 frame in about 2 weeks ago and just got it back. i took it to a local bike shop that builds custom bikes. i am not too thrilled with the end product, because this frame didn't have one crack in it. i guess what i wanted done didn't get passed to the guy that did the work on it properly. instead of laying a bead under the seat area, he welded in a cross bar right in front of the damn airbox mount. i am not sure if the box will fit now. he removed the piece that holds the cdi box on(where should i mount the CDI now?) and the welds look like crap and they didn't even clean them up. i am afraid to take it back when i figure out that the airbox doesn't fit.

wish i would have ate the shipping cost and sent it to the man, himself!

fabiodriven

09-01-2010, 02:00 PM

That does suck to hear, but you have to use people who know what they're doing. If you hadn't already seen what these guys can do, and not even in general- I mean specifically, why would you give it to them? Just because they can build a rattle-trap Harley it doesn't mean they know the first thing to do with a Japanese bike, never mind an ATV.

You should have sent it to Dirtcrasher. It's a tough lesson, but a lesson learned nonetheless.

devilman

09-01-2010, 02:53 PM

i have seen some of their builds/work and thats why i took it too them and not some joe down the street that claims he can weld. all well, hopefully i can get it cleaned up and looking better myself.

Dirtcrasher

09-02-2010, 10:59 AM

I'd like to see the pics!

Mig welds RARELY need grinding down. I don't grind any of the welds on the gusseted frames.......

They either can't set the machine or used an arc welder, I would have said WTF right then and there; "YOU TOOK MY CDI MOUNT OFF!!!!!!!"

I've got 2 in the shop now to get going on.

swampthang

09-07-2010, 10:43 PM

I picked up a spare frame for my 350x which already has a hairline crack around left motor mount (85) The spare frame I want to use is broke all the way around the left mount (85 too) an also has a dent and a busted spot underneath the motor close to the front mount. Prolly from a hard bottom out? Anyways I need to build this thing strong because im 6'4" 220lb and I dont want to have to keep repairing every year or so. What is the first step to start gusseting? Is there anyway to measure to see if the frame is squared up before welding the broken spots first? I was planning on fixing this frame first then swapping everything onto it from my bike this winter then fixing my original frame too for a extra. If anyone can show me a list of steps to help me get rolling i'd appreciate it. I'd love to be able to do as much of this build myself not to save on cash but to learn for farther on down the road for future 350x i might aquire.

tanks350x

09-07-2010, 11:05 PM

Ouch, It looks to me that the frame has been cracked for quite a while, before it went clean through.. You can tell by the rust on the edges of the crack.. The frame in this thread is mine. It has held up to alot of abuse and some descent jumps as well...Well over a year and a half of abuse, and going strong...

TheRealFatShady

09-08-2010, 05:53 PM

Man, why were these things so breakable? It seems like EVERY frame has some degree of cracking/breaks in it....

Here's my contribution to the list of 'bad' frames:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b253/videogamer2005/P8080333.jpg

Look at the left side mount/bolt guide.....it's gone! The left side had been wrapped, lots of bad repairs on this, and then more cracks. Generally when the weakest part or link or something is strengthened, the next weakest becomes more prone to breaking. DC seems to have all of those spots covered in his gussets.....good thing too as I'm a pretty heavy guy.

By the way, this frame's swingarm bolt holes were giant ovals, the rear mount was a paper thin washer welded to it, the seat grommet area was broken on both sides, and several other things.....Luckily I found a pair of decent frames the next week. Sucks I had to drive all over New England to get them, but I got em.

Dirtcrasher

09-09-2010, 10:38 PM

Ryan, I got CO2 gas and started working on your plates today. I found the new designed plates I made up, might add a couple more under the engins, just gotta check the drain plug :D

Also bought an angle plate for my mill to make getting broken studs out a bit easier and certainly held more rigid.....

We'll get you hooked up :D

Keep an eye out for .125 plain steel for all these plates.......

WilliamJ

09-10-2010, 02:39 PM

Man, why were these things so breakable? It seems like EVERY frame has some degree of cracking/breaks in it....

I am pretty sure part of the reason is because of the high volume MIG welding process. It looks really average and MIG welding needs to be very carefully controlled to prevent embrittlement of the parent metal. Basically no pre-heating takes place and cooling occurs too rapidly.

The other reason is probably that the tubes and joints are too slender for the purpose.

I have built quite a few race car chassis in tubular steel. Both in mild steel using nickel bronze welding and Reynolds HT tubing using TIG welding. These things are immensely strong, you almost never get a weld or braze break in normal use if the chassis is designed right. Frequently in heavy collisions the tubes bend but the joints don't break. The downside is they cost a lot to make.

When you repair your trike frame it might help to use nickel bronze. It allows a little flexing and it's easy to do - you just need to make sure the metal is really clean (same as all welding) and you don't overheat the weld and make the nickel bronze boil.

If you can get it, TIG welding is the best of all but not many people have access to one or someone who knows how to use it.

Bill

Dirtcrasher

09-11-2010, 06:44 PM

^ I was all for a 3500$ TIG welder and then the economy hit a wall, so Mig it is :D

I'm pretty confident in my welds.....

Vealmonkey

09-12-2010, 08:23 AM

The honda frames are pretty thin, which I really think is the biggest culprit. They could have used thicker material, but it's more a cost factor. I don't think honda or many makers, think about their machines lasting 20 years or more. Honda was known for stamped steel frames and thin tubing and such. Some of thier newer machines are beefiier and some are not. I've seem some newer quads and bikes that have total crap frames. I've seen some old race machines with not much better. If you would see how some of the Tigers are put together it's pretty amazing. I can see why people are building machines ike the TPC450 and another 450 frame at HRE. Makes me want to have a custom frame for the 350x built in at least mild steel. It would be a whole lot stronger than stock. And if you wanted to go really crazy, chromoly. And the stock frames are so thin, I'm sure dirtcrasher practiced on a trashed frame or 2 to get the welds just right so there wouldn't be any burn through which I'm sure happened during practice welding on an old crappy frame. So it's a real tightrope walk for the guys who repair and reinforce these frames. Not for the novice welder at all. Thick wall mild steel or chromoly would be way more forgiving. And when I say mild steel, I'm talking DOM of course. A custom frame would never be exactly like stock, but who cares.

Dirtcrasher

09-12-2010, 12:28 PM

^ It is very mild and I try to get deep penetration, yet no burn trough. Thing is, some areas will burn trough easy and others can take more amperage...... Lots of the lower tubes have got water filled and the tubing is thinner in some spots, I have to be careful but a mig makes it very easy to fill in, just tap, cool, tap, coool, tap, cool and it's filled again :D

Thin tubing and small stamped out gussets make for easy assembly. The tubing I used for the heaqdlight guards broke 2 benders so I know it was .020 or so thicker than the bender liked.

Tooling costs go up when you make massive bends like the suspended 70's with 2" tubing bent 90 degrees down.....

RYAN - I'm doing yours as we speak, got some done last night; Find one for VM will ya!!

TheRealFatShady

09-12-2010, 01:18 PM

Thanks DC. I have that other one I had brought down (the 86??? Opposite year as the one I dropped off for gussets) but never got a PM back from him about it.

camoweasel

11-08-2010, 11:50 PM

Dirtcrasher

11-09-2010, 12:39 PM

Dirtcrasher,

This a great post. I have a 1985 frame that hasn't seen much abuse until I recently purchased it. I checked for cracks, and so far I've been lucky not to find any. I'm going to be making a trip to some dunes in Florida, and I'm petrified that I will too crack the frame. I'm really hesitant about stripping my frame down to nothing though. I'm afraid, I won't be able to get it back together right. If I pull the engine and airbox, will there be enough room to weld in gussets to prevent that crack in the left side by the engine mount? From the pictures, it looks like there are those 6 triangle gussets going around both sides of the rear frame? In the future I may plan to powdercoat it, but for now, I will jsut rattle can the gussts over with red paint. I appreciate your advise or anyone else who has done this as well.

There are 9 reinforced areas total, and I finish allot of the Honda welds. I improve and or change them everytime I do frame. I just finished a right lower gusset that allows the use of a brand new 450R master cylinder. I may make up just that gusset and offer it for sale. The buyer would have to do some light grinding and mig weld it on the frame.

None of the gussets interfere with anything, thats why there not giant triangles, they have a curve to them. That left motor mount tends to hide small cracks around it.

Sunrise red matches very good if you were ever to do this on your own. The back gussets strengthen the subframe, the one under the seat heklps prevent the post mount cracking. But the most important one is the frame wrap and mount on the left side......

I also stretch ATC70 frames :D

tri-Z ripper

11-09-2010, 12:42 PM

I need a 70 stretched for sure!

Dirtcrasher

01-22-2011, 04:41 PM

Send yours over to DEEPA after he posts pics of his. People don't seem to care because it's under the tank but I try to leave a clean factory look.

I relocate the gas tank back just about as far, it's a compromise; You don't want too much frame exposed nor do you want a huge seat gap.

I removed my entire top tube and stretched it with thicker walled steel so it couldn't bend. MUCH harder to do but then the top tube isn't cut/welded/filled. It was just the way I wanted mine done........

murfman

09-26-2011, 10:57 AM

Thanks for the great photos, I will be tearing down my 350sx this winter and doing this mod.

Jason125m

09-27-2011, 07:53 PM

Thanks for the great photos, I will be tearing down my 350sx this winter and doing this mod.

I will be doing the same thing. Great work DC. Everything you do is top notch. :beer

murfman

09-29-2011, 08:33 AM

hoping thi thread gets fixed

Jason125m

09-30-2011, 08:27 PM

It will fix if the ..... gets removed from the title

sledcrazyinCT

12-26-2013, 02:38 PM

Old thread but great pics and info! any chance to still get a copy of the templates?

6speedthumper

12-26-2013, 07:02 PM

Go to TPC trikes and get their gusset kit. I did.

tanks350x

01-05-2014, 02:17 AM

Why would you tell someone to buy someone else's products on this thread? SERIOUSLY????

6speedthumper

01-05-2014, 06:57 PM

Why would you tell someone to buy someone else's products on this thread? SERIOUSLY????

Because I posted about member built gusset kits on here when I first joined, and no one replied. Contacted a member that has built his own gusset kits, and asked if he would make me a kit, or, if he had templates. Was turned down on both of those. So... I contacted TPC, and am pleased with their gusset kit. THAT is why I posted what I posted. Just trying to help a member out. Now, that being said, I have not read this thread from page one, so sue me.

6speedthumper

01-05-2014, 07:02 PM

Louis Mielke

01-13-2014, 08:53 PM

Sounds legit, member looked into gussets from another member and sounds like there wasn't a lot of interest so he went to another source and is now recommending that source because of his past experience.

TPC makes a good gusset kit.

Dirtcrasher

02-18-2014, 02:22 AM

Pardon me, just jumped back to the first page and reread. I DID read this thread months ago, and I DID contact DC, and I DID ask him about a gusset kit or templates. With that said, I was turned down on both. And I can't blame him, there is a lot of time that has to go into making a complete kit. So, did I sh!t on his thread? In a way yes. Was it done purposefully? No, absolutely not. Just trying to help a fellow member out, like I said.

I never took it personal; I send all you gusset guys to TPC because I can't water or laser cut them. It is all done by hand. Like I have said before, just get a cereal box and cut them to fit, then off to the metal fab. Very easy to make; Takes sometime but it isn't a big deal.
DC