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HondaHarry
02-14-2009, 01:07 AM
It was cold out, so my machinist freind and I goof off after hours at his shop,
Im turning him into a trike junkie. This is what happens when we find a bent valve in a 200X head. lol

EXTREMELY modified Dodge Neon intake valve, and Moved the 200X intake valve over to the exhaust side... Seats have been opened up 3mm on both sides, some porting done... Exhaust side still needs a little touchup...

Heres pics of the results. Oh and ignore the trashed head, it was just for a comparison as we didnt have any before shots of the now modded head. HH

Waiting on some gaskets from the dealer... This was just a learning tool at this point, I have no idea if its gonna run good or not... probably just go KABOOM. we didnt get too crazy with the porting, and the cam is stock for now. (if we like it, I'll be making a phone call to Megacycle.) HH:pics: :pics:

HondaHarry
02-14-2009, 01:10 AM
.................................................. .......................

Xowner
02-14-2009, 01:18 AM
retarded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!










COOL!

Louis Mielke
02-14-2009, 01:24 AM
did you cycle the cam through to see if the vavles would hit each other? You're almost sure to need a dished piston I would think.


Definitely awesome though. Keep us posted!

Xowner
02-14-2009, 02:17 AM
louis its got a 10.25 wisco piston in it

Louis Mielke
02-14-2009, 07:47 AM
Well if all the clearances are good should be a runner. Probably gonna need that cam though. Excited to follow the progress on this one!

sandpuppi101
02-14-2009, 10:34 AM
IDK it sure seems like alot of valve fella's ! I think that your gonna have an issue with piston clearance,even with a valve cutout.Obviously you guy's were just having fun,and I hope it work's -but there's alot of issue's.I have a few question's?? How did you cut the seat's ,was it a competition cut ? 3way? and if it was 3 way what was it 15-45-65 degree* ? What do you plan on doing with the stem,and is the OD on the stem the same as the guide?

With that set-up and if you get it to function properly without binding ,you could go with a huge cam. How much did you take out of the intake and the exhaust side's?? I hope it work's but like Louis posted ,you better do a dry run- but stem's gotta get wacked 1st- unless I'm missing something here !!

HondaHarry
02-14-2009, 12:13 PM
ok, first the big intake valve you see out of the head, and
the one in the head are not the same size, its just what it started life as, all the dimensions of that valve are the same as stock, but the head diameter. its now 31.6.
I didn't take it apart to show that one... no special valve angles, just reground the honda seat angles. at this point we just want to see if it will work.
wiseco was generous with their valve notches, it clears easily.
both valves are lighter than stock. we may try some Ti valves from a yfz in the future. :) if we run across any issues, we will see what w have to do... I don't care if we have to make our own piston hehe. HH

HondaHarry
02-14-2009, 09:02 PM
It RUUUUUNS?!?!!!??? Really it does! Pretty good too.
Gotta rev its nutz off but it gets after it. The valves did
interfere, but just took a little off of each and its good.
Shimmed the valves up with another set of stock valve shims.
WAY more spring pressure! You can feel it when you kick it.
Feels like a 450. Little bugger is pissed off. lol Its gonna love a
cam. And the jetting we tried is actually pretty close so far. :)
Might try and take some vid later. HH and Jed

Vealmonkey
02-14-2009, 09:10 PM
I wish you had a flow bench! I'd like to see the before and after numbers.

mullet_boy
02-15-2009, 12:20 PM
Dude thats awsome. You gotta post a write up on what exactly you did. I'm sure I'm not the only one wanting to try this too lol.

freaksfix
02-18-2009, 01:25 PM
This is very cool. Back in the day Clyde Day had a kit for a the 200x called a the "Day Head" it was a big valve head, now i doubt it had valves this big but the bigger the better right..lol.. It was the same idea it was a bigger set of valves and you had to have the head re-cut to accept the valves..

NINJA
02-19-2009, 12:23 AM
This is very cool. Back in the day Clyde Day had a kit for a the 200x called a the "Day Head" it was a big valve head, now i doubt it had valves this big but the bigger the better right..lol.. It was the same idea it was a bigger set of valves and you had to have the head re-cut to accept the valves..

Not to burst anyones bubble here or rain on their parade but bigger is not always better, especially on a small displacement cylinder. I bet if you were to test that head on a flowbench it would actually flow less than the stock setup, unless you got really lucky. Oh, it will run, but only in a very small rpm range of usable power. There are mathematical formulas for doing just this sort of thing. As for disclosing the formulas, well, I'm not going that far, because those are actually "trade secrets". My guess is that motor is going to have very poor volumetric efficiency at this point. Did you take into account valve shrouding? Tuned intake tract length to make up for this big difference in valve area?

I'm not trying to be a dick and I think it's pretty cool how you managed this, but there are many variables to figure out and consider in doing this.

rdlsz24
07-15-2009, 03:03 PM
You ever do anything more with this?

Rob

brapp
07-15-2009, 03:34 PM
yes please do an update

krazykane
07-15-2009, 10:14 PM
ninja if you wont tell then i think you shoud either not say anything or tell them a website to go to to get them .just my opinion

Shorty
03-29-2010, 10:01 PM
NEEED UPDATE!! AND lots of PICS!!

3wheelmecca
03-29-2010, 10:32 PM
*stroking beard* I wonder how a RFVC or big valve kit (or both?!?!?) would be on that 200X or even a 350X?? I need to buy a mill and lock myself in my garage and not come out until I have it.

NINJA
03-31-2010, 12:27 AM
ninja if you wont tell then i think you shoud either not say anything or tell them a website to go to to get them .just my opinion

I was just giving my proffesional opinion. Harry is also my friend, so I'll tell him but not everyone else. What do you think "trade secret" means?

BTW what is the status on this one Harry?

TeamGeek6
04-13-2010, 05:01 PM
it may eat the intake valve from heat. Was the steel treated after machining?

krazykane
05-09-2010, 10:33 AM
i know what trade secrets are but iam not that type of person .in my line of work i tell poeple that ask beacsue i just like helping poeple nothig personal just my opinion .but i guess i could just charge poeple a couple hundred for my trade secrets .

300rman
05-10-2010, 01:46 AM
something like a formula for porting is a trade secret i wouldnt share, because if the porting technician/shop is a reputable shop, chances are they created, tested, tuned, and perfected it, and spent a lot of time and money developing it. Something like that wont even help 99% of anyone that looks at it, so there is no reason to share it.

thats like inventing something, and giving it away for free.

krazykane
05-10-2010, 08:50 AM
yeah but maybe atleast point them in the right direction .but saying i have it and not sharing is like tease a pit bull with a big ass steak in time you will get bit .but i do understand what he saying just sayiing iam not like that .just my opinion ninja seems to be a good guy with alot of info i see his post on here and another trike site and always helpful i was just saying my opion no disrespect towards ninja in any way i dont want this to get blown up to something its not .

NINJA
05-10-2010, 04:40 PM
No blowup to be had, no offence taken.

So Harry, whatever became of this project? Do I have to call you?

J-roc
05-15-2010, 11:08 AM
Umm, yea, call him! (j/k) This is cool, someone willing to step outside the box of "it can't be done without thousands of calculations" train of thought. Most inventions where inspired by reckless practical experimentation, look at Einstein or Tesla, they repeatedly blew stuff up in attempts to create or re-create things. I wanna blow stuff up too! There is nothing more satisfying then accomplishing the imposable, lol.

What (200cc) head do you believe would be best to work with when trying this type of modification: 200S - 200X - XR200R?

Cheers.

HondaHarry
05-15-2010, 11:28 AM
Oh wow. Didnt even know this thread got bumped.
It still runs, but we learned some things. We ditched the neon intake valve and put a stock intake valve back in it. We really need to start over and just do the portwork and leave the valve sizes alone.
It is overkill. It made horsepower but it was so far up in the RPM range it was barely usable except on flat ground. Smaller valves and high port velocities are the key here. If it was stroked, I bet this head would have done well in its previous configuration. We took the shims out from under the springs and put new springs/timing chain in it since the pressures were high enough that it actually stretched the old one, and flattened the intake lobe on the cam. It was GONE! The stuff we learned is considered common knowledge, but it was fun to push the envelope, see what effects it had, then come back to reality. so for now its got a stock intake valve and a big exhaust valve, with portwork... we took the extra weight off of the flywheel. thats a cool mod! its snappy now. We arent done tinkering. Have another contraption in the works, but its gonna be under wraps until its actually finished. I will say that what this project is, is something that HAS been done before. Just not by us! HH

Shorty
05-15-2010, 11:37 AM
Thanks for the update.

HaggLE
05-29-2010, 05:25 AM
Ever thought of using a Jianshe (chinese) 200cc head? very similar to Honda but has bigger valves and bearings on the camshaft... oh and they are cheap to buy.
Also the cylinder has a cam chain tensioner on it that works much better.