HEARING All-Terrain Vehicles
DATE September 3, 1985
PLACE Performing Arts Center, Milwaukee, Wisconsin
TIME 9:05 a m
The document and its entirety may be found here
Part 1 of the CPSC public hearing in Milwaukee Wisconsin for ATV safety. September 3rd, 1985.
I've spent MANY MANY hours working on reading through the transcript of this meeting. It is incredibly lengthy, roughly 360 pages. I had wanted to save and present this all at one time but I've decided to go ahead and present what I already do have, and finish it up with part 2 at a later date. There is some really good testimony, and interesting comments and statements that I intend to overview and cover below. I hope that you will be able to keep and objective mind and study these statements as your reading them, to base and form your own conclusions. When possible I've noted the exact page and line of statements beginning so it is easy for you to cross reference yourself on the full 360 page .pdf file that is linked to above. Lets begin:
Page 15: Commenting by Wisconsin Senator, brings up how Environmental aspects of ATV use are to be considered as well. Was the ban a scape goat for the tree huggers to get rid of large chunk of motorized recreation?
Page 22: Beginning public comments, by Walter Olmstead of Carl Heald, Inc. (Maker of super trykes and low gravity three-wheelers, minibikes, etc)
Page 26: Olmstead mentions how his company is unable to get any liability insurance on their products because of how the media has made anything with 3 or 4 large soft tires out to be dangerous. Not that it was expensive, but that they couldn't get it at all.
Page 40: Comments from a guy named Clay White begin, he is a chairman of some do-gooder non-profit "concerned Consumers League."
Page 44: Clay White Accuses manufactures of knowing the machines were dangerous and doing nothing about it.
Page 52: Panel member Jane Jansen, part of the Wisconsin Branch of the CPSC states the following after being asked how the injuries of ATVs compares to others.
1 MS JANSEN It's at a very low level number in
2 relation to other investigations But in reviewing the five
3 that we have handled,
...
1 One of the accidents did appear that there was a good
8 level of user fault And that, in a product safety
9 investigation, normally just throws it out of whack as far as
10 It being a product fault And in that particular incident
11 you had two young girls whose attention was distracted, and
12 they were driving, and they hit a tree fell, the only thing
13 that would concern me about that accident is what happened,
14 in that the vehicle turned over
2 relation to other investigations But in reviewing the five
3 that we have handled,
...
1 One of the accidents did appear that there was a good
8 level of user fault And that, in a product safety
9 investigation, normally just throws it out of whack as far as
10 It being a product fault And in that particular incident
11 you had two young girls whose attention was distracted, and
12 they were driving, and they hit a tree fell, the only thing
13 that would concern me about that accident is what happened,
14 in that the vehicle turned over
MR SCANLON Mr Krantz, for the death
20 certificates processed by your department, do you know what
21 percentage of those deaths on ATVs were alcohol related'' Ms
22 Jansen mentioned that, in the five investigated by her
23 department, alcohol or drug abuse was not involved
24 MR KRANTZ In the ones that I have looked at,
25 there was no mention made on the certificates But that's
1 not to say that it didn't happen Because there is no
2 particular place on the death certificate for the coroner or
3 the medical examiner or doctor to specifically enter whether
4 there was alcohol use involved in that So in lots of cases
5 — well, I shouldn't say in lots of cases I'm sure in some
6 cases, certainly from motor vehicles and that and, say,
7 suicide deaths, the mention of alcohol doesn't get mentioned
8 for various reasons So there possibly could have been some
9 But from the certificates, none did mention that
20 certificates processed by your department, do you know what
21 percentage of those deaths on ATVs were alcohol related'' Ms
22 Jansen mentioned that, in the five investigated by her
23 department, alcohol or drug abuse was not involved
24 MR KRANTZ In the ones that I have looked at,
25 there was no mention made on the certificates But that's
1 not to say that it didn't happen Because there is no
2 particular place on the death certificate for the coroner or
3 the medical examiner or doctor to specifically enter whether
4 there was alcohol use involved in that So in lots of cases
5 — well, I shouldn't say in lots of cases I'm sure in some
6 cases, certainly from motor vehicles and that and, say,
7 suicide deaths, the mention of alcohol doesn't get mentioned
8 for various reasons So there possibly could have been some
9 But from the certificates, none did mention that
Page 65, admittance that their accidents they investigated, NONE of the injured were wearing helmets:
MR DeFIORE In the five accidents that you
19 investigated, in how many instances were the riders wearing
20 helmets or other safety equipmenf
21 MS JANSEN I don't believe we had a single one
22 where there was even so much as a helmet on them, which I
23 find curious Because I also know people who are involved in
24 the motor cross, fun types of things with children And
25 those groups are very safety conscious, very equipment
1 conscious And it's totally — seems to be totally absent in
2 this particular area
19 investigated, in how many instances were the riders wearing
20 helmets or other safety equipmenf
21 MS JANSEN I don't believe we had a single one
22 where there was even so much as a helmet on them, which I
23 find curious Because I also know people who are involved in
24 the motor cross, fun types of things with children And
25 those groups are very safety conscious, very equipment
1 conscious And it's totally — seems to be totally absent in
2 this particular area
On page 71, the testimony from "injured" parties begins.
Page 75:
MR DESMOND My name is Noah Desmond I'm 16
17 years of age My accident happened when I was 15 I was
18 driving around our house on an ATV, and I went to take a turn
19 I leaned into the turn, and the ATV turned too much There
20 was a car parked in our driveway I panicked and pressed the
21 accelerator instead of the brake I hit the left rear bumper
22 of the car and smashed my foot, my left foot, in between the
23 car and the ATC The ATV tipped once and was in the other
24 side of the driveway when I woke up
25 I would just like to say I think there is something
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1 wrong with the handling on the ATCs, and I don't like the
2 setup, how they have the accelerator, the brake and the
3 clutch and everything all on the handlebars So I think that
4 should be changed There is something about that
5 Thank you
17 years of age My accident happened when I was 15 I was
18 driving around our house on an ATV, and I went to take a turn
19 I leaned into the turn, and the ATV turned too much There
20 was a car parked in our driveway I panicked and pressed the
21 accelerator instead of the brake I hit the left rear bumper
22 of the car and smashed my foot, my left foot, in between the
23 car and the ATC The ATV tipped once and was in the other
24 side of the driveway when I woke up
25 I would just like to say I think there is something
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1 wrong with the handling on the ATCs, and I don't like the
2 setup, how they have the accelerator, the brake and the
3 clutch and everything all on the handlebars So I think that
4 should be changed There is something about that
5 Thank you
Pages 81-82 Commissioner Dawson asks Mr. Erickson about the lack of warning labels he had mentioned:
MRS DAWSON I was interested in what you said about the lack of
25 any instruction or warnings on the machine on which your son
82
1 was injured Were there no labels that you recall giving any
2 instructions, particularly about double riding'? I think
3 that's one of the rules which the industry itself and the
4 associated trade association has been very, very firm about
5 MR ERICKSON As I recall that day, I looked at
6 the machine very briefly But I haven't had a chance to ask
7 my brother, or my brother-in-law, too many questions because
8 there is a lawsuit pending And I was happy that my
9 sister-in-law shared some of that information with me
10 However, one attorney told me that the warning is very
11 insufficient It's small, and it's hidden underneath the —
12 apparently underneath the riding area It's not supposed to
13 be a riding area, but a luggage rack And according to a
14 spokesman, I believe it was for Honda, on 20/20, he said that
15 It wasn't what they had hoped it would be And I think that
16 that's an admission that it is obviously insufficient
25 any instruction or warnings on the machine on which your son
82
1 was injured Were there no labels that you recall giving any
2 instructions, particularly about double riding'? I think
3 that's one of the rules which the industry itself and the
4 associated trade association has been very, very firm about
5 MR ERICKSON As I recall that day, I looked at
6 the machine very briefly But I haven't had a chance to ask
7 my brother, or my brother-in-law, too many questions because
8 there is a lawsuit pending And I was happy that my
9 sister-in-law shared some of that information with me
10 However, one attorney told me that the warning is very
11 insufficient It's small, and it's hidden underneath the —
12 apparently underneath the riding area It's not supposed to
13 be a riding area, but a luggage rack And according to a
14 spokesman, I believe it was for Honda, on 20/20, he said that
15 It wasn't what they had hoped it would be And I think that
16 that's an admission that it is obviously insufficient
5 MR DESMOND Yes, exactly I can't really judge
6 the steering of an ATC Usually when I turn, it turns a
7 little But this time it turned a lot And I couldn't move
8 away from the car
9 MR DeFIORE Was there anything that you could
10 think of now, looking back on it, that you could have done
11 that might have prevented the accidenf?
12 MR DESMOND Yes Hit the brake, not the
13 accelerator But I panicked, so —
6 the steering of an ATC Usually when I turn, it turns a
7 little But this time it turned a lot And I couldn't move
8 away from the car
9 MR DeFIORE Was there anything that you could
10 think of now, looking back on it, that you could have done
11 that might have prevented the accidenf?
12 MR DESMOND Yes Hit the brake, not the
13 accelerator But I panicked, so —
14MR DeFIORE Meg, have you had training in riding
15 an ATV"?
16 MS PETULLO Yes Well, sort of Not really My
17 friend just showed me right before I started riding it how to
18 do It, but just briefly
19 MR DeFIORE Okay Before you had your accident,
20 did you know that riding two on a bike was unsafe'?
21 MS PETULLO No, I didn't
22 MR DeFIORE Did you know that riding on an
23 asphalt surface was unsafe'?
24 MS PETULLO No
25 MR DeFIORE As you think back about that accident,
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1 can you think of anything that happened then that you could
2 have done to prevent the accidenf?
3 MS PETULLO Probably put on the brakes, same
4 thing But, yeah, I put the speed on instead of the brake,
5 as he did I put the speed on
15 an ATV"?
16 MS PETULLO Yes Well, sort of Not really My
17 friend just showed me right before I started riding it how to
18 do It, but just briefly
19 MR DeFIORE Okay Before you had your accident,
20 did you know that riding two on a bike was unsafe'?
21 MS PETULLO No, I didn't
22 MR DeFIORE Did you know that riding on an
23 asphalt surface was unsafe'?
24 MS PETULLO No
25 MR DeFIORE As you think back about that accident,
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1 can you think of anything that happened then that you could
2 have done to prevent the accidenf?
3 MS PETULLO Probably put on the brakes, same
4 thing But, yeah, I put the speed on instead of the brake,
5 as he did I put the speed on
In July of last year we had a seven-year-old child
21 killed while operating an all-terrain vehicle This
22 seven-year-old child was operating the vehicle on her
23 father's farm There was an even younger child, age 20
24 months, riding along as a passenger on the all-terrain
25 vehicle The seven-year-old lost control of the vehicle It
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1 jumped over a road into a ditch, overturned and caused the
2 death of the seven-year-old child
3 The second instance happened in November of '84 and
4 involved the death of a 33-year-old man who was a passenger
5 on an ATV driven by a 25-year-old This vehicle was being
6 operated on a sidewalk as it crossed the bridge on a city
7 street The vehicle scraped the railing of the sidewalk,
8 turned over, and it is uncertain whether death was caused by
9 the vehicle overturning on the passenger or whether he struck
10 the pavement in some way
11 The third instance happened in June of this year in
12 which three or two 15-year-olds were operating an ATV They
13 were operating the ATV on a country gravel road They failed
14 to stop for a stop sign and drove out into the path of an
15 oncoming vehicle
16 A comparison to these three fatalities reveals some
17 interesting things In no cases was any protective head gear
18 worn, either by the passengers or the operators of the
19 vehicle In two of the three cases, the operators were very
20 unfamiliar with the operation of the vehicle In one
21 instance, the owner of the vehicle and the operator had had
22 the vehicle one day The other instance was that of the
23 young child, who was clearly unable to operate the vehicle
24 properly The third instance involves the 15-year-old, who
25 simply did not obey a common sense traffic control, even
1 though he was operating the vehicle illegally
2 I think that the incidence of these tragic deaths in
3 our county is of great concern to the medical community in
4 our area, as well as to the law enforcement community
5 With respect to the ages involved, I, as a parent,
6 cannot believe that any parent would knowingly place their
7 child in a situation of danger or potential harm It seems
8 to me, therefore, that the problem which has been discussed
9 before of the perception of parents in particular of the
10 danger of these vehicles is a very real problem
11 We see a large number of advertisements which appear
12 very benign and do not address the dangers involved I think
13 It is absolutely essential that we attempt some sort of
14 competency testing on the part of the operators of
15 all-terrain vehicles
21 killed while operating an all-terrain vehicle This
22 seven-year-old child was operating the vehicle on her
23 father's farm There was an even younger child, age 20
24 months, riding along as a passenger on the all-terrain
25 vehicle The seven-year-old lost control of the vehicle It
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1 jumped over a road into a ditch, overturned and caused the
2 death of the seven-year-old child
3 The second instance happened in November of '84 and
4 involved the death of a 33-year-old man who was a passenger
5 on an ATV driven by a 25-year-old This vehicle was being
6 operated on a sidewalk as it crossed the bridge on a city
7 street The vehicle scraped the railing of the sidewalk,
8 turned over, and it is uncertain whether death was caused by
9 the vehicle overturning on the passenger or whether he struck
10 the pavement in some way
11 The third instance happened in June of this year in
12 which three or two 15-year-olds were operating an ATV They
13 were operating the ATV on a country gravel road They failed
14 to stop for a stop sign and drove out into the path of an
15 oncoming vehicle
16 A comparison to these three fatalities reveals some
17 interesting things In no cases was any protective head gear
18 worn, either by the passengers or the operators of the
19 vehicle In two of the three cases, the operators were very
20 unfamiliar with the operation of the vehicle In one
21 instance, the owner of the vehicle and the operator had had
22 the vehicle one day The other instance was that of the
23 young child, who was clearly unable to operate the vehicle
24 properly The third instance involves the 15-year-old, who
25 simply did not obey a common sense traffic control, even
1 though he was operating the vehicle illegally
2 I think that the incidence of these tragic deaths in
3 our county is of great concern to the medical community in
4 our area, as well as to the law enforcement community
5 With respect to the ages involved, I, as a parent,
6 cannot believe that any parent would knowingly place their
7 child in a situation of danger or potential harm It seems
8 to me, therefore, that the problem which has been discussed
9 before of the perception of parents in particular of the
10 danger of these vehicles is a very real problem
11 We see a large number of advertisements which appear
12 very benign and do not address the dangers involved I think
13 It is absolutely essential that we attempt some sort of
14 competency testing on the part of the operators of
15 all-terrain vehicles
Page 96 Excellent testimony about the high percentages of head injuries and related deaths that more than likely could have been cured with a helmet:
11 First of all, the age range of the people who have
12 died associated with the usage of all-terrain vehicles has
13 ranged from age 70 to age seven So these are not just
14 limited to children, though I think that children or
15 adolescents provide some of the more common people who use
16 these vehicles But I thought that was of interest and
17 should be mentioned
18 Secondly, the most common cause of or immediate cause
19 of death with these individuals is a head injury 70 percent
20 of these victims died due to a head injury
12 died associated with the usage of all-terrain vehicles has
13 ranged from age 70 to age seven So these are not just
14 limited to children, though I think that children or
15 adolescents provide some of the more common people who use
16 these vehicles But I thought that was of interest and
17 should be mentioned
18 Secondly, the most common cause of or immediate cause
19 of death with these individuals is a head injury 70 percent
20 of these victims died due to a head injury
21 As stated in Product Safety and Liability Reporter
22 dated 10/26/85 by Alan R Isley, president of Specialty
23 Vehicle Institute of America, a group that supports off-road
24 vehicles, the type of person who buys an ATV is usually hard
25 to instruct, buys it for freedom and adventure, and usually
1 resists training
22 dated 10/26/85 by Alan R Isley, president of Specialty
23 Vehicle Institute of America, a group that supports off-road
24 vehicles, the type of person who buys an ATV is usually hard
25 to instruct, buys it for freedom and adventure, and usually
1 resists training
...4 Further, ATVs with four wheels have visual
5 similarities to automobiles These factors mask the risk
6 involved with ATV operation, such that many riders never
7 suspect any difficulty in operating the vehicle
8 Further, parents caught in this deception allow
9 children to operate the vehicles without training or
10 supervision, likewise not recognizing that it is a motor
11 vehicle Just as you wouldn't allow a child to use a power
12 saw unsupervised, they shouldn't be allowed to use ATVs
13 unsupervised Just as you wouldn't allow a child on a
14 motorcycle or a moped without a helmet, they shouldn't be
15 left on an ATV without proper protective gear
I would like to address a couple other things that
5 have been brought up earlier this morning The comments on
6 rider error, for instance My full-time job is dealing with
7 motorcycle rider training I know from that that, in auto
8 driving and auto accidents, as well as in motorcycle
9 accidents, only 2 percent of the accidents are from vehicle
10 failure Most of it is operator error, in particular with
11 ATVs because they do not handle like other vehicles They
12 look like other vehicles They look like big wheels or
13 tricycles They may look like an auto if they have four
14 wheels But they do not handle like other vehicles
15 The idea of inducing instability that has been brought
16 up IS incorrect In order to turn, there are two techniques
17 The technique you use depends on the speed you are traveling
MR SCANLON And our resources would be made
20 available to you
21 Dr Hargarten, I had a number of questions concerning
22 your review of the 17 deaths Did all those occur in
23 Wisconsin"?
24 DR HARGARTEN Yes
25 MR SCANLON They did wer helmets used in any of those available were there was a head injury?
DR HARAGRETEN I do not have that information available. That is not required to be mentioned on the death certificate. So if there were individuals using helmets it may or may not have been recorded. There may be other individuals who may know the specific deaths that occurred due to head injury, and they know for sure that the person didn't wear a helmet but I am not sure.
20 available to you
21 Dr Hargarten, I had a number of questions concerning
22 your review of the 17 deaths Did all those occur in
23 Wisconsin"?
24 DR HARGARTEN Yes
25 MR SCANLON They did wer helmets used in any of those available were there was a head injury?
DR HARAGRETEN I do not have that information available. That is not required to be mentioned on the death certificate. So if there were individuals using helmets it may or may not have been recorded. There may be other individuals who may know the specific deaths that occurred due to head injury, and they know for sure that the person didn't wear a helmet but I am not sure.
25 MR SCANLON Let me ask you this Would helmets have prevented any of the head injuries of these children?
JOSWICK I think in at least two cases, had the individuals been wearing helmets, they would have stood an excellent chance of survival.
JOSWICK I think in at least two cases, had the individuals been wearing helmets, they would have stood an excellent chance of survival.
MS DAWSON Let me ask you about the vehicle
23 Itself Do you -- in the ones that you have experience with,
24 do you believe that the design and performance aspects are as
25 safe as they can be''
1 MR KIELTYKA I think they are as safe as they
2 need to be, yes
3 MS DAWSON Would you make a recommendation for
4 any changes''
5 MR KIELTYKA Yes I would like to see keys on
6 them so that unsupervised use could be monitored So if I'm
7 not riding it, I take the key
8 MS DAVJSON That is a significant one Because
9 most of them are either started by rope pull or switch
23 Itself Do you -- in the ones that you have experience with,
24 do you believe that the design and performance aspects are as
25 safe as they can be''
1 MR KIELTYKA I think they are as safe as they
2 need to be, yes
3 MS DAWSON Would you make a recommendation for
4 any changes''
5 MR KIELTYKA Yes I would like to see keys on
6 them so that unsupervised use could be monitored So if I'm
7 not riding it, I take the key
8 MS DAVJSON That is a significant one Because
9 most of them are either started by rope pull or switch
Dawson asks Kieltyka about the similarities between three- and four- wheeled ATVs. Interesting response!
MS DAWSON We heard from an earlier panel about
18 one death and another serious injury on a four-wheeler ATV
19 In your experience, do you see any significant difference
20 between the risks associated with the three and four wheeler"'
21 MR KIELTYKA I see the four wheeler as being
22 riskier, the reason being it looks more like an automobile
23 and, therefore, there is less acknowledgment of risk with the
24 vehicle People look at it and say, "Sit on it and go "
25 That's not the case It turns, it handles, identical to a
1 three wheeler
2 MS DAWSON Identical?
3 MR KIELTYKA In my opinion, yes
4 MS DAWON We have heard some other comments that
5 there is some difference in handling characteristics of the
6 four wheeler, as opposed to the three wheeler In your
7 experience, you feel they are very, very similar in the way
8 that they —
9 MR KIELTYKA Very similar, yes Both have pros
10 and cons, mostly based on the terrain you are going to be
11 operating in On very hilly terrain, I would prefer a four
12 wheeler On flat terrain or narrow trails, I prefer a three
13 wheeler
MR DeFIORE We have heard all morning about
18 tipovers and rollovers and flipovers In your experience in
19 training people, are there some common errors that people
20 make that lead to that scenario'?
21 MR KIELTYKA Can I pass that on to someone'?
22 Vic, do you think you could handle a bike that started
23 tipping over, after having taken training'?
24 MR DeFIORE I can ask Vic later
25 MR KIELTYKA Okay The answer is yes, a trained
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1 rider can recognize how to handle that As a vehicle turns,
2 it wants to roll More weight to the inside compensates for
3 that You can turn the vehicle by keeping all the wheels on
4 the ground, and that's the proper way to turn it
MR DeFIORE You have indicated several times
6 earlier that there were a number of specific handling
7 characteristics that had to be learned in terms of
8 three-wheeled vehicle support, ATV as opposed to other
9 vehicles Can you state what maybe two or three of the most
10 important ones would be, in your mind, as an instructor'?
11 MR KIELTYKA In particular, that they do not turn
12 like any other vehicle They do not turn like an automobile,
13 unless they have a differential If that's the case, yes
14 You turn the handle or the steering mechanism, and they turn
15 With a solid rear axle, they do not You need to lean into
16 the turn to control the lift of that inside wheel, ideally
17 keeping it on the ground, lightening it enough to scrub a
18 little bit That is, in particular, the most important
19 The body English necessary for riding this vehicle is
20 the single most important thing that that rider needs to know
21 Going up hills, you weight forward Going downhill, you
22 weight back In a turn, you weight to one of the sides
23 That's an important thing that needs to be brought out to
24 people
18 tipovers and rollovers and flipovers In your experience in
19 training people, are there some common errors that people
20 make that lead to that scenario'?
21 MR KIELTYKA Can I pass that on to someone'?
22 Vic, do you think you could handle a bike that started
23 tipping over, after having taken training'?
24 MR DeFIORE I can ask Vic later
25 MR KIELTYKA Okay The answer is yes, a trained
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1 rider can recognize how to handle that As a vehicle turns,
2 it wants to roll More weight to the inside compensates for
3 that You can turn the vehicle by keeping all the wheels on
4 the ground, and that's the proper way to turn it
MR DeFIORE You have indicated several times
6 earlier that there were a number of specific handling
7 characteristics that had to be learned in terms of
8 three-wheeled vehicle support, ATV as opposed to other
9 vehicles Can you state what maybe two or three of the most
10 important ones would be, in your mind, as an instructor'?
11 MR KIELTYKA In particular, that they do not turn
12 like any other vehicle They do not turn like an automobile,
13 unless they have a differential If that's the case, yes
14 You turn the handle or the steering mechanism, and they turn
15 With a solid rear axle, they do not You need to lean into
16 the turn to control the lift of that inside wheel, ideally
17 keeping it on the ground, lightening it enough to scrub a
18 little bit That is, in particular, the most important
19 The body English necessary for riding this vehicle is
20 the single most important thing that that rider needs to know
21 Going up hills, you weight forward Going downhill, you
22 weight back In a turn, you weight to one of the sides
23 That's an important thing that needs to be brought out to
24 people
Let's first look at overturning instability My
13 opinion is, this is the type of instability or accident which
14 causes the most injuries It's a pitch-roll type of injury,
15 pitch-roll type of accident If you consider an axis from
16 the front tire to one of the rear tires, I will call that a
17 pitch-roll axis Normally, on four-wheel vehicles, you could
18 either pitch, which is the front-to-back motion, or roll,
19 which IS the side-to-side motion But on a three-wheel
20 vehicle, you can both pitch and roll at the same time These
21 vehicles can overturn much, much faster, much, much quicker
22 than a regular four-wheel vehicle
13 opinion is, this is the type of instability or accident which
14 causes the most injuries It's a pitch-roll type of injury,
15 pitch-roll type of accident If you consider an axis from
16 the front tire to one of the rear tires, I will call that a
17 pitch-roll axis Normally, on four-wheel vehicles, you could
18 either pitch, which is the front-to-back motion, or roll,
19 which IS the side-to-side motion But on a three-wheel
20 vehicle, you can both pitch and roll at the same time These
21 vehicles can overturn much, much faster, much, much quicker
22 than a regular four-wheel vehicle
We have not started suits yet, but I intend to do so
23 shortly And I can share with the Commission that, with
24 respect to the death of the 15-year-old girl, our research
25 has indicated that there is a design defect with the
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1 all-terrain vehicle
2 All of these, by the way, were Yamahas
3 The defect in the front axle design was such that it
4 allowed contaminants to enter into the front axle, and the
5 front axle bearings seized, freezing, if you will, causing
6 the vehicle to stop and flipping the rider off
7 In the situation with the 15-year-old boy, once again,
8 this injury was directly a result of a defect in the front
9 axle design, where one bearing seized And I believe that is
10 why that all-terrain vehicle rolled to the right rather than
11 flipping, as in the first one
12 With respect to the 12-year-old girl, we believe that
13 this accident occurred because of the maneuvering/steering
14 problems that have previously been mentioned To turn the
15 vehicle, one has to lean out in the direction opposite of
16 your turn You have to shift your weight Unfortunately,
17 with an 80-pound girl, they do not have the power nor the
18 control to adequately keep the vehicle under control and do
19 what IS necessary to make the things maneuver correctly
20 With this girl, there was no instructions or training or any
21 of the other items that were mentioned by the previous
22 witnesses
23 shortly And I can share with the Commission that, with
24 respect to the death of the 15-year-old girl, our research
25 has indicated that there is a design defect with the
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1 all-terrain vehicle
2 All of these, by the way, were Yamahas
3 The defect in the front axle design was such that it
4 allowed contaminants to enter into the front axle, and the
5 front axle bearings seized, freezing, if you will, causing
6 the vehicle to stop and flipping the rider off
7 In the situation with the 15-year-old boy, once again,
8 this injury was directly a result of a defect in the front
9 axle design, where one bearing seized And I believe that is
10 why that all-terrain vehicle rolled to the right rather than
11 flipping, as in the first one
12 With respect to the 12-year-old girl, we believe that
13 this accident occurred because of the maneuvering/steering
14 problems that have previously been mentioned To turn the
15 vehicle, one has to lean out in the direction opposite of
16 your turn You have to shift your weight Unfortunately,
17 with an 80-pound girl, they do not have the power nor the
18 control to adequately keep the vehicle under control and do
19 what IS necessary to make the things maneuver correctly
20 With this girl, there was no instructions or training or any
21 of the other items that were mentioned by the previous
22 witnesses
I'm a registered professional engineer
20 in the state of Wisconsin, and a good portion of my business
21 IS in forensic engineering And in this particular case,
22 working with Mr Schultz and other law firms, and in a couple
23 of other cases, we have formed a pretty steep opinion in a
24 design defect, particularly in the Yamaha vehicle, where two
25 particular situations occur The shafting in its axle design
137
1 permits contaminants to enter into the bearing race And the
2 bearings, not being permanently sealed, create a problem, and
3 it locks up inside, causing the vehicle to overturn This is
4 the area that we are working in presently
5 We are also well aware of the instability that Dr
6 Huston talks about, and we fully concur in that area And
7 with that lack of stability, with this freezing of the race,
8 It takes very little to flip the vehicle over
9 That's about all I have at this time I would like to
10 thank the Commission for their help and assistance up in
11 Green Bay
20 in the state of Wisconsin, and a good portion of my business
21 IS in forensic engineering And in this particular case,
22 working with Mr Schultz and other law firms, and in a couple
23 of other cases, we have formed a pretty steep opinion in a
24 design defect, particularly in the Yamaha vehicle, where two
25 particular situations occur The shafting in its axle design
137
1 permits contaminants to enter into the bearing race And the
2 bearings, not being permanently sealed, create a problem, and
3 it locks up inside, causing the vehicle to overturn This is
4 the area that we are working in presently
5 We are also well aware of the instability that Dr
6 Huston talks about, and we fully concur in that area And
7 with that lack of stability, with this freezing of the race,
8 It takes very little to flip the vehicle over
9 That's about all I have at this time I would like to
10 thank the Commission for their help and assistance up in
11 Green Bay
I would like to comment on previously unreported
21 statistics from the emergency room at St Joseph's Hospital
22 in Marshfield, Wisconsin In this one emergency room in
23 Marshfield, from January 1, 1985 to August 1, 1985, a mere
24 seven months, they have seen 30 patients injured on ATVs 14
25 of these patients, almost 50 percent, have been under 16
PEPPEY REPORTING CO /273-7308
139
1 years of age 20 percent of these injured required
2 hospitalization from one to 30 days, and one patient still
3 remains in the hospital in a coma on a respirator Three of
4 these accidents were on four-wheeled ATVs and the rest, or 90
5 percent, were on three-wheeled ATVs 65 percent of these
6 victims were not wearing helmets
7 Reviewing information shows that the most serious
8 injuries were in children too young to drive these motor
9 vehicles Many instances involved children with other
10 children as passengers, using these machines on private
11 property where they are designed to run
21 statistics from the emergency room at St Joseph's Hospital
22 in Marshfield, Wisconsin In this one emergency room in
23 Marshfield, from January 1, 1985 to August 1, 1985, a mere
24 seven months, they have seen 30 patients injured on ATVs 14
25 of these patients, almost 50 percent, have been under 16
PEPPEY REPORTING CO /273-7308
139
1 years of age 20 percent of these injured required
2 hospitalization from one to 30 days, and one patient still
3 remains in the hospital in a coma on a respirator Three of
4 these accidents were on four-wheeled ATVs and the rest, or 90
5 percent, were on three-wheeled ATVs 65 percent of these
6 victims were not wearing helmets
7 Reviewing information shows that the most serious
8 injuries were in children too young to drive these motor
9 vehicles Many instances involved children with other
10 children as passengers, using these machines on private
11 property where they are designed to run
MR SCANLON Thank you. Doctor, very much
10 Mr Schultz, were the two girls and the boy that you
11 described — were they wearing helmets'?
12 MR SCHULTZ None of the three were
13 MR SCANLON None were wearing helmets
14 MR SCHULTZ None were
15 MR SCANLON Had any of the three received any
16 kind of formalized training'?
17 MR SCHULTZ No one, other than operating the
18 machines after they were picked up and learning as they went
19 on Self-taught, in essence
20 MR SCANLON Both you and Mr Hanitz say that this
21 particular manufacturer has a product defect Is this defect,
22 in your opinion, applicable to the other three large
23 manufacturers of ATVs'?
24 MR HANITZ I haven't found it yet and have not
25 been hired to do so
PEPPEY REPORTING CO /273-7308
142
1 MR SCANLON So you have only looked at one
2 manufacturer, and you have come up with this opinion
3 MR HANITZ That's correct
10 Mr Schultz, were the two girls and the boy that you
11 described — were they wearing helmets'?
12 MR SCHULTZ None of the three were
13 MR SCANLON None were wearing helmets
14 MR SCHULTZ None were
15 MR SCANLON Had any of the three received any
16 kind of formalized training'?
17 MR SCHULTZ No one, other than operating the
18 machines after they were picked up and learning as they went
19 on Self-taught, in essence
20 MR SCANLON Both you and Mr Hanitz say that this
21 particular manufacturer has a product defect Is this defect,
22 in your opinion, applicable to the other three large
23 manufacturers of ATVs'?
24 MR HANITZ I haven't found it yet and have not
25 been hired to do so
PEPPEY REPORTING CO /273-7308
142
1 MR SCANLON So you have only looked at one
2 manufacturer, and you have come up with this opinion
3 MR HANITZ That's correct
MS DAWSON In your role as a professor, associate
4 professor of mechanics — is that what it is"? Mechanics
5 engineering"'
6 DR HUSTON Yes
7 MS DAVJSON Have you been experienced in using
8 these vehicles"'
9 DR HUSTON I have ridden some just in my
10 investigation with the vehicles But I am not what I would
11 call a recreational rider
12 MS DAWSON Have you been in touch with any of
13 those people that are recreational riders"' In other words,
14 have you had any contact with the user groups and those that,
15 for example, use them for competition"'
16 DR HUSTON No, I have not. I have been involved
17 with some litigation for plaintiffs
4 professor of mechanics — is that what it is"? Mechanics
5 engineering"'
6 DR HUSTON Yes
7 MS DAVJSON Have you been experienced in using
8 these vehicles"'
9 DR HUSTON I have ridden some just in my
10 investigation with the vehicles But I am not what I would
11 call a recreational rider
12 MS DAWSON Have you been in touch with any of
13 those people that are recreational riders"' In other words,
14 have you had any contact with the user groups and those that,
15 for example, use them for competition"'
16 DR HUSTON No, I have not. I have been involved
17 with some litigation for plaintiffs
2 MR DeFIORE Does riding -- more than one person
3 riding is believed to be inherently dangerous so what
4 you're saying is no one should be a rider -- an operator
5 should not be 12 years or younger
6 DR JOHNSON Yes Unless it is designed for
7 passengers
8 MR SCANLON They are not designed for two
9 passengers
10 DR JOHNSON I haven't checked them all I'm
11 sorry
12 Mr SCANLON I don't know of any that's designed
13 for more than one passenger Okay
3 riding is believed to be inherently dangerous so what
4 you're saying is no one should be a rider -- an operator
5 should not be 12 years or younger
6 DR JOHNSON Yes Unless it is designed for
7 passengers
8 MR SCANLON They are not designed for two
9 passengers
10 DR JOHNSON I haven't checked them all I'm
11 sorry
12 Mr SCANLON I don't know of any that's designed
13 for more than one passenger Okay
Beginning page 154, line 11, some more good Testimony from a gentlemen named Larry Cook that heads up a snowmobile association about personal responsibility.
Beginning page 157, Line 22 some additional favorable testimony from Bur Zeratsky
Page 161, Line 17-22 Another speaker talks about his family, his experience, and his profession. He mentions that he is a teacher and is probably almost as stressfull of a job as being a member of the CPSC.
17I am speaking on my own behalf, as an owner and rider
18 of an ATV Also the father of five children, three boys and
19 two girls, high school and college age My profession, I'm a
20 teacher Riding an ATV has been a positive benefit to me I
21 know teaching is a job with a certain amount of stress,
22 probably almost as much stress as being a member of the CPSC
18 of an ATV Also the father of five children, three boys and
19 two girls, high school and college age My profession, I'm a
20 teacher Riding an ATV has been a positive benefit to me I
21 know teaching is a job with a certain amount of stress,
22 probably almost as much stress as being a member of the CPSC
23 MR SCANLON I doubt it
Page 180,Line 25 The question comes up again by Dr. DeFiore about seat sizes encouraging double riding. Its answered by Michael Bergman on Line 4 of Page 181
4 MR MICHAEL BERGMAN I think that seat is perfect
5 for when you have to move around to maneuver the bike It's
6 the right size And it says all over the manual and on the
7 rear of the machine it's not for two riders It is made for
8 one rider to maneuver
5 for when you have to move around to maneuver the bike It's
6 the right size And it says all over the manual and on the
7 rear of the machine it's not for two riders It is made for
8 one rider to maneuver
Page 190, Line 6 testimony from Don Schommer of a snow-mobile association about how the Wisconsin DNR refused to make a safety course for ATVs.
6 And I have been after the DNR for years from Wisconsin
7 here to get a program going for these people to get this
8 machine a safety course, just like we have for the
9 snowmobilers I've got a lot of clubs that are against me
10 for sticking up for the ATVs, but I use this machine, and
11 it's a good machine And I have used all kinds Yamaha,
12 Honda, and now we have Polaris coming out with it We had a
13 Kawasaki last year We've got some excellent dealers in my
14 area They let me use these machines We have owned our own
15 But I have been on them for years, and I go to these
16 safety meetings, I go to association meetings, and I preach
17 and I preach And the DNR has done nothing with this thing,
18 just washed their hands We ha've got a problem out there
19 because they have no place to ride legally The DNR says
20 they cannot ride on our snowmobile trails on a funded trail
21 MR SCANLON DNR stands for Department of Natural
22 Resources'?
23 MR SCHOMMER Natural Resources And they have
24 been bickering for years, and I don't know when it's going to
25 end But we could solve this whole problem if we just had a
Page 191
1 safety program set up, just like snowmobiles Register them
2 just like a sled
7 here to get a program going for these people to get this
8 machine a safety course, just like we have for the
9 snowmobilers I've got a lot of clubs that are against me
10 for sticking up for the ATVs, but I use this machine, and
11 it's a good machine And I have used all kinds Yamaha,
12 Honda, and now we have Polaris coming out with it We had a
13 Kawasaki last year We've got some excellent dealers in my
14 area They let me use these machines We have owned our own
15 But I have been on them for years, and I go to these
16 safety meetings, I go to association meetings, and I preach
17 and I preach And the DNR has done nothing with this thing,
18 just washed their hands We ha've got a problem out there
19 because they have no place to ride legally The DNR says
20 they cannot ride on our snowmobile trails on a funded trail
21 MR SCANLON DNR stands for Department of Natural
22 Resources'?
23 MR SCHOMMER Natural Resources And they have
24 been bickering for years, and I don't know when it's going to
25 end But we could solve this whole problem if we just had a
Page 191
1 safety program set up, just like snowmobiles Register them
2 just like a sled
11 Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Bill Wildt I'm
12 president of an organization called the Motorsport
13 Advancement Crusade This organization was founded to
14 preserve and enhance motor sports through public education
15 As such, we are vitally concerned about the possible loss of
16 an entire type of vehicle from motor sport
17 The hypothetical proposal that the Government has
18 presented publicly through its agent, the CPSC, to ban and
19 recall the popular three-wheel devices commonly known as ATVs
20 IS an ominous indication of just how much work our
21 organization has to do.
12 president of an organization called the Motorsport
13 Advancement Crusade This organization was founded to
14 preserve and enhance motor sports through public education
15 As such, we are vitally concerned about the possible loss of
16 an entire type of vehicle from motor sport
17 The hypothetical proposal that the Government has
18 presented publicly through its agent, the CPSC, to ban and
19 recall the popular three-wheel devices commonly known as ATVs
20 IS an ominous indication of just how much work our
21 organization has to do.
11 No one can predict what personal transportation will
12 , look like 20 years from now We do know the first automobile
13 invented by Karl Benz in 1885 had three wheels, and it's
14 probably a good thing that no one immediately banned
15 four-wheel vehicles
16 The vehicle of the future could very well be a three
17 wheeler, based on some youngster's experience with the
18 advantages of an ATV when he was young The same could be
19 said of six-wheelers or two-wheelers, for that matter The
20 fact IS, we just don't know V^at we do know is that
21 political manipulation in this area — for example, the
22 banning of a particular concept — will very likely have long-
23 term evolutionary effects One can't artificially tamper
24 with technical inquiry without affecting the future, no more
25 than one can ban specific types of books without affecting
Page 199
1 the future
12 , look like 20 years from now We do know the first automobile
13 invented by Karl Benz in 1885 had three wheels, and it's
14 probably a good thing that no one immediately banned
15 four-wheel vehicles
16 The vehicle of the future could very well be a three
17 wheeler, based on some youngster's experience with the
18 advantages of an ATV when he was young The same could be
19 said of six-wheelers or two-wheelers, for that matter The
20 fact IS, we just don't know V^at we do know is that
21 political manipulation in this area — for example, the
22 banning of a particular concept — will very likely have long-
23 term evolutionary effects One can't artificially tamper
24 with technical inquiry without affecting the future, no more
25 than one can ban specific types of books without affecting
Page 199
1 the future
10 Finally, as a private citizen, I challenge the idea of
11 the Government entering the sport vehicle marketplace and
12 outlawing one of the competitors in this field because people
13 might hurt themselves This is not, in my mind, a legitimate
14 function of government, and if successful, one can only
15 wonder what's next Motorcycles, to be sure Ultralight
16 aircraft, probably Powerboats, yeah And, oh, yes, of
17 course, handguns This notion of government control of types
18 of products in the marketplace ought to be repugnant to
19 Americans that value their freedoms so highly
11 the Government entering the sport vehicle marketplace and
12 outlawing one of the competitors in this field because people
13 might hurt themselves This is not, in my mind, a legitimate
14 function of government, and if successful, one can only
15 wonder what's next Motorcycles, to be sure Ultralight
16 aircraft, probably Powerboats, yeah And, oh, yes, of
17 course, handguns This notion of government control of types
18 of products in the marketplace ought to be repugnant to
19 Americans that value their freedoms so highly
23 MR SCANLON Mr Wildt, let me just make one
24 correction on your statement
25 MR WILDT I said it wrong, or I wrote it wrong'?
202
1 MR SCANLON You said it and you wrote it The
2 Consumer Product Safety Commission is a five-member regional
3 body Presently we have one vacancy So there are four of
4 us on the Commission, one coming down very soon Only one of
5 five commissioners has ever used the term "ban" or "recall "
6 So you must keep that in mind
7 MR WILDT If I may —
8 MR SCANLON So you're not talking about this
9 generic government You're talking about one individual
10 MR WILDT If I may. Commissioner, I don't want to
11 retreat from that position The fact of the matter is, the
12 public views you folks, even one of you, as the Government
13 I promise you that's how it is perceived And because that's
14 the way it is perceived, that's the way we have to deal with
15 It That's where our fight lies
24 correction on your statement
25 MR WILDT I said it wrong, or I wrote it wrong'?
202
1 MR SCANLON You said it and you wrote it The
2 Consumer Product Safety Commission is a five-member regional
3 body Presently we have one vacancy So there are four of
4 us on the Commission, one coming down very soon Only one of
5 five commissioners has ever used the term "ban" or "recall "
6 So you must keep that in mind
7 MR WILDT If I may —
8 MR SCANLON So you're not talking about this
9 generic government You're talking about one individual
10 MR WILDT If I may. Commissioner, I don't want to
11 retreat from that position The fact of the matter is, the
12 public views you folks, even one of you, as the Government
13 I promise you that's how it is perceived And because that's
14 the way it is perceived, that's the way we have to deal with
15 It That's where our fight lies
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