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Thread: MY BUILD - 450R swinger on a 350X and a 250R frontend too......IT RUNS!!!!

  1. #1
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    Cool MY BUILD - 450R swinger on a 350X and a 250R frontend too......IT RUNS!!!!

    This has been a long time coming.

    Anyhow, I'm gonna talk about what it took, what sizes are what and continue to update it until I have a fully functioning suspension. I got the 250R front end rebuilt for the build using the 350X stem, but we'll save that for later in the build thread.

    I don't have allot of money, but I do have parts and time

    Although I would have got this done sooner or later, I asked Jason Hall enough questions to get in his mind and I thank him for the help. But, there are still questions for many of us, so feel free to comment or ask "why?"

    Anyhow, I used an 06 TRX450 swinger which is supposedly about 3/4"s longer than 05 or earlier.

    I'll use the inch system to make life easy on everyone. So, it comes stock at about 9 and 1/4"s with the dust caps and thrust washers. About 9 and 1/8th without the dust caps and just under 9"s wide with it bare.

    The 350X opening varied from a few frames I had but all about 8 and 9/16ths. So even with the swinger completely bare, you are still about 7/16ths too wide on the swinger with no outside seal, dust cap, thrust washer - nothing! How the average guy can fit it on there is beyond me. You MUST use machinery.

    Anyhow, I wanted the stock collars/thrust pieces, I believe they help play a role in supporting the long spacer that only rides on one needle bearing. Then I wanted a 1/16th S.S. shim next to it and that would equal the frame opening.

    BUT, here is my question, 200Xand 350X swingarms have a full width spacer, it is just a bit longer than the width of the assembly so it can allow the swinger to pivot. The 450R has 2 separate spacers that ride on the needle bearing and outer thrust collar; So whats to stop the thing from binding up? Do people leave the bolt a little loose? On a 250R, we have thrust washers that allow you to tighten your swingarm bolt so I thought about what I'd do here to allow me to lock down my bolt and allow the swinger to pivot without much side to side play (that took a bunch of math )

    I'll make a spacer for the swinger bolt and you have to open the hole up to 15MM's from the stock 14MM's.

    Anyhow, I built a plate for the bottom and trammed in the mill, this alone took 2 hours or more just to set up:



    Once set up, I took off the amount I needed to allow everything to work MY WAY :





    Without this machine, I don't know how you could do this accurately, the idea is to IMPROVE and update the 350X, not hack new parts into it:



    Now this is the space I spoke of before with the black magic marker, I will machine a sleeve just a few thousands LONGER than the outside of my swingarm assembly.



    And here is a shot of the spacer and OEM thrust washer/collar and my S.S. washer that will take the side play up:





    If anyone can explain to me HOW they accomplish this without spacers/thrust bearings, I'd love to hear it.....

    Right behind that collar will be the OEM inner seal but used outside because we now have now water/dirt protection.

    So this is what it looks like, this one is for me and a crate engine........



    And no, the 1/2" plate was just a jig

    Next will be a set of "ears" for the lower pivot. I'll see what shock works, what they affect and so on. I have the 450R shock, 250R and a Cannondale FOX Podium but it's mounting is wrong. However, I have the aluminum and machines to make any linkage I want.....

    All I want is a 350X I can jump further and higher with some confidence!
    Last edited by Dirtcrasher; 05-04-2011 at 08:28 PM.
    All our government does is distract us while they steal from us, misspend our tax $ and ruin our country

  2. #2
    Billy Golightly's Avatar
    Billy Golightly is offline Always finding new and exciting ways to not give a hoot in hell Catch me if you can
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    Very Cool work DC. As I'm reading it I guess you haven't decided what to use for a rear shock yet, right? Have you decided if you are going link or no-link yet? Just my opinion, but I think the cross bar on the 350X frame is going to need some SIGNIFICANT mods to attach any type of linkage to it.

    I have a 250R rear suspension jig that bolts into the pivot area and locates the top shock mount and the bottom linkage that might interest you

  3. #3
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    Thanks Billy, it will definitely have a linkage to it. I'll make up a a lower mount for the linkage based on the "R" design and then gusset it.

    I've already gusseted the front portion of that tube to the side tubes.

    Let me try a few things before I have you ship that up here, for now I can copy 's 250R..............
    All our government does is distract us while they steal from us, misspend our tax $ and ruin our country

  4. #4
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    nice job on the swinger update.that should give the added strength you want.plus all the usable parts are new and readily available,bonus.
    1985 ATC 250R
    . Team Red Trike

  5. #5
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    very cool.

  6. #6
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    If I haven't asked this before, how much longer is the 450r swingarm over a 350x?
    Nicholson 500x (Project)
    Nicholson 185s
    Nicholson 110 (That takes an atc70 tank)
    Ascott 500 head/350x (Project)
    Homebuilt Racer Chromoly Suspension 110 (Ragin Runt)
    PK Racing Suspension 70
    A+ Inc Suspension 70
    AWS Aluminum 90 frame
    Hi Performance ATC Suspension frame rd350
    Hi Performance ATC Suspension frame 90

  7. #7
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    Not to high-jack, but with more machining could a 450r swingarm fit in a 86 200x? I think there's a inch difference.

  8. #8
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    ^I'd have to measure but you can't take ANY more material off of the 450R swinger than I did... Your inch better be larger and I doubt it is. Honestly, I don't think the 200X is that much narrower...

    VM - I'll check but I think there close to the same length and the 05 and under were 3/4" shorter.
    All our government does is distract us while they steal from us, misspend our tax $ and ruin our country

  9. #9
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    I'm sitting here thinking, 1) longer would be nicer, 2) Greg King sure could polish one of those 450r swingarms up real nice. I have that aftermarket swinger now, but I'm sure watching this thread pretty close. I'm anxious to see what all you have to do to fit a shock and what kind of shock options you have. I also know you keep talking about the 250r front forks, but I can't understand why you would update the rear and not do more to update the front?
    Nicholson 500x (Project)
    Nicholson 185s
    Nicholson 110 (That takes an atc70 tank)
    Ascott 500 head/350x (Project)
    Homebuilt Racer Chromoly Suspension 110 (Ragin Runt)
    PK Racing Suspension 70
    A+ Inc Suspension 70
    AWS Aluminum 90 frame
    Hi Performance ATC Suspension frame rd350
    Hi Performance ATC Suspension frame 90

  10. #10
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    O.k., so when you pull this off it'll mean completely new rear ends for (of course the 350x) 250r, 200x, and Tecate's(?). Dirtcrasher, when you pull this off it will mean you will have a bolt on kit to update our sport trikes to modern suspension and parts! Kudos. And I already know you can work on forks, and new trees have been fabbed. So the only thing (and I don't want it to change) is the power plant. I am excited, this is a big step to keeping the renovations of trikes rolling. This is big. Good work. This offers alot more hope for the lesser repair guy like me.
    83' 200x (son's). 85' 200 auto-x & 85' 125m (daughters). 84' Tecate(?). 85' KXT Tecate (mine!, mine!, mine!.)+ some others but don't feel like typing them in.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vealmonkey View Post
    I'm sitting here thinking, 1) longer would be nicer, 2) Greg King sure could polish one of those 450r swingarms up real nice. I have that aftermarket swinger now, but I'm sure watching this thread pretty close. I'm anxious to see what all you have to do to fit a shock and what kind of shock options you have. I also know you keep talking about the 250r front forks, but I can't understand why you would update the rear and not do more to update the front?
    What else can I do? I already fit 86 250R forks to the frame, no money for inverts

    The swinger is cast, allot of work to polish. I ride so polishing is only for weddings as far as I go.........

    Longer swingarms are nice but I learned a long time ago to put your head OVER the handle bars and almost touch the front fender for crazy hills.
    All our government does is distract us while they steal from us, misspend our tax $ and ruin our country

  12. #12
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    How much of an improvement are the 86 250r forks? I've been following some of your posts now in different threads and you just get me thinking too much. And then when you post to ask questions and such, well I just start asking tons of questions.
    Nicholson 500x (Project)
    Nicholson 185s
    Nicholson 110 (That takes an atc70 tank)
    Ascott 500 head/350x (Project)
    Homebuilt Racer Chromoly Suspension 110 (Ragin Runt)
    PK Racing Suspension 70
    A+ Inc Suspension 70
    AWS Aluminum 90 frame
    Hi Performance ATC Suspension frame rd350
    Hi Performance ATC Suspension frame 90

  13. #13
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    I think they are 4MM's larger and 2"s longer, and should perform better than the 350X stockers............

    These are are excellent shape, no pitting anywhere

    I'll get progressive springs for them if it's a big improvement.
    Last edited by Dirtcrasher; 12-31-2011 at 08:25 PM.
    All our government does is distract us while they steal from us, misspend our tax $ and ruin our country

  14. #14
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    I think this is a no go right now...I'll have to measure in the frame but the 200x swinger is 7.80 inches without dustcaps. So that's .70 away from a 350x. I guess the .35 on both sides is just too much huh?

  15. #15
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    I think I took .330 off of each side......
    All our government does is distract us while they steal from us, misspend our tax $ and ruin our country

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