Truck questions

[dcreel]

Alright, I've been on the lookout for a full size truck to haul stuff and pull a trailer at times. It needs to be a crew cab, I've been leaning towards a crew cab dually with 454/460 and a 5 speed. That might be too much truck 80% of the time.

With my Toyota 4x4 we used the 4 wheel drive a lot during winter.

Does 4 wheel drive add to the gross weight it can haul or pull compared to the 2wd version? Would it be worth it long term to buy a 4x4 truck? I don't foresee any real off roading.

The difference between gas versus diesel. Besides the expense of diesel fuel per gallon vs gasoline. Do you get that much more mpg with diesel vs gasoline?

I've never owned a full size truck, and never owned a diesel besides a Peterbilt and a Freightliner.

Around these parts most used trucks have a ton of miles. Is 100,000 miles alot of miles for a newer diesel truck? What about for a newer gasoline truck?

Thanks in advance guys..

[HuffieVA]

Doug,

My personal truck is a 4X4 04 Dodge 2500 quad cab with the 5.7 Hemi I avg 14-17 mpg and I'm usually hauling a car trailer, I have a buddy with the same truck but it has the Cummings and he says he gets 18-20 but he usually isn't hauling anything

I think the 4X4 makes a bigger payload difference with the half tons and as you move up to 3/4 and 1 tons it has less of an effect

Also I would stick with a 3/4 Ton unless your always going to hauling heavy, dually's are nice but by the time you have an 8' box and a crew cab and fenders sticking out an extra foot on each side with the turning radius of a U-Haul and parking lots designed for Mini Coopers parking the things can be a real pain in the ass when your just running to town for a few things

Rodd

I will always have a 4X4, mainly because I grew up in upstate NY and know what its like to be stranded in the snow for hours or unable to go anywhere during a storm... I dont often need it in VA but old habits die hard. I do not go off road but tend to use my truck as a tractor around the property skidding logs etc. that if I didn't have 4X4 I wouldn't be able to do so I guess it really depends on your winters and everything you plan to use the truck for. But if you plan on owning it for the majority of its useful life, I believe a 4X4 holds a better resale value as long as its not obvious you played "Micky Thompson" on the weekends...

I know its only an opinion (and I'm kind of Mopar minded) but I would go Cummings if I went diesel. but all the trucks are good trucks.

I think our truck just hit 120,000 and it runs like the day we got it with no power loss or oil use

At work we have all GM products and our fleet plan usually starts selling them off if the require any major repairs after 175K but we have pickups in the fleet running strong at 230K, we are a commercial roofing company so by then they are fairly ratted out and they are abused from day one

[trikenut3]

Doug ,

Skip the dually ( one trip to the tire store will convince you ) route unless you're hauling heavy loads all the time and as stated parking is an issue as well as anything else associated with having a wider rear track . I have a gas V10 in a Ford F250 with 265,00 miles on it and swear I get 11 mpg either loaded or empty ; makes no difference . If you're not pulling heavy loads go with a 1/2 ton . EVERYTHING on 3/4 ton and larger trucks are more expensive as far as maintenance parts go . Buy a good trailer with trailer brakes and you should be set for many years of trouble free hauling . Gas verses diesel is a tough call ; I like my gas truck and have nothing bad to say about a diesel but just prefer my gas truck . I plow snow and like the fact I don't have to plug in my truck before I go inside . Last thought about 4x2 verses 4x4 . 4x2 can pull more weight due to GVW but ; you have used your toyota in 4 wheel drive in the past and mpg shouldn't be a lot different so I would get a 4x4 ; you live in an area with snow so you may need a 4x4 sometimes .

[fabiodriven]

I have a buddy with the same truck but it has the Cummings and he says he gets 18-20 but he usually isn't hauling anything

but I would go Cummings if I went diesel.

I'm sorry to nit-pick Rodd, but it's Cummins, not Cummings. I'm not trying to be a douche, but I work around diesel trucks all day and it's just a pet peeve of mine. I correct someone every time I hear it. Lol

I would highly recommend going with the diesel. They are extremely reliable and will pull anything you want, but reliability depends on which diesel you get. The only ones you can truly trust that will run for a long time would be the 7.3 Ford or the 5.9 Cummins. The 7.3's will go for 400k without batting an eyelash. It is not uncommon for a 7.3 to out last the truck it is in. The Ford 6.0 makes a ton of power, but you have to do a lot to those motors to keep them reliable. I would never buy a 6.0. It will leave you high and dry at some point. The GM 6.5's seem to have a lot of injector pump issues. I've had many come through my shop that need injector pumps, at low very low miles I might add. The 6.6 GM's are pretty good engines, they make a ton of power, but they seem to have fuel issues as well. Usually injectors and fuel lines. I've seen it many times. Ford 6.4's suck. They're a pig on fuel and not at all dependable. Nuff said about that motor.

Bottom line for a diesel in my opinion, get a 7.3. Start looking at 7.3 trucks and you'll see their resale value is very high. There's a very good reason for that.

When it comes to gas the Ford V-10 is very dependable and a power house, but she's a thirsty girl. Very, very thirsty. I'm not a huge fan of big blocks in factory trim. The 460 Ford, 454 Chevy, and 8.1 Chevy don't make all that much more power than their small block brethren, yet they consume a lot more fuel. I'm not a big fan of the 5.4 Ford. They're pretty gutless for the most part and not all that dependable. Very finicky motors they are. The 350 small block Chevy is a good motor (If you're a GM guy, I'm not). The 6.0 GM gas motor is great too. All the power of the big block, but a little less gas.

I have a 99 F-350 with two wheel drive. It's a four door dually with a 6 speed stick (I won't buy an automatic). It has the 7.3 and it runs like a top. I absolutely love, love, love the truck. I have no need for four wheel drive, but that's just me. I make it through the winters just fine up here. The 2wd trucks are king on the highway. They ride smoother and have less components to fail, which is exactly why I bought this truck. It has far surpassed my expectations. My engine is bone stock except for a straight pipe (which I would recommend for any diesel). The only thing I would like to do at some point is put a selectable locker in the rear.

I may add to this at some point. I love trucks.

Oh, and these guys are right about parking a dually. My four door 8 foot bed truck is a b!tch to park, but I usually don't mind. There are times when it becomes an issue, but I live in the country so it's no biggie. You have to keep in mind though, this is coming from somebody who would have a Mack DM800 for a daily driver if I had the money.

[dcreel]

John, You do indeed have a sharp truck.. I like the thought of a 6 speed too.. I won't own an auto either..

So where is the difference in price per gallon of diesel vs gas come in? I know diesel costs more per gallon, do you get more miles per gallon out of a diesel? Is the difference really a wash? Especially compared to a big block or v10 gas engine?

I love trucks too.. If I ever win the lottery I will build a 359 Pete daily driver.. lol

[fabiodriven]

The diesels are much better on fuel, but obviously the price of diesel is more. If you had a V-10 or a big block you will be spending more on gas, guaranteed. My truck is supposedly good for 18-20 MPG, but I've never gauged it. I know it doesn't get that with me driving on the highway. I can't drive 55. I cruise at 80-85, with or without the slide-in truck camper in the back. At a consistent 10-15 lbs of boost, there is no way I'm getting 18 mpg. If you did 60-65 on the other hand, that might be a different story. Like trikenut said, 11 mpg with the V-10. Big blocks aren't much better. I keep my foot out of the go pedal when I'm not on the highway and it's not bad at all.

[fabiodriven]

Something else to keep in mind in regards to the 4 versus 2 wheel drive- Where my truck has the dual wheels it does better in the snow than a 2 wheel drive single wheel truck would do.

[HuffieVA]

I'm sorry to nit-pick Rodd, but it's Cummins, not Cummings. I'm not trying to be a douche, but I work around diesel trucks all day and it's just a pet peeve of mine. I correct someone every time I hear it. Lol

No problem, I'm not going to pretend I dont let spell check make decisions for me... lol

[HuffieVA]

Something else to keep in mind in regards to the 4 versus 2 wheel drive- Where my truck has the dual wheels it does better in the snow than a 2 wheel drive single wheel truck would do.

Good point, I also have a 69 Dodge 1 ton dump I use around the house and occasionally to haul something here and there that will go just about anywhere my 4X4 will go, but its geared like a tank and has a top speed of about 65 under perfect conditions...

[jb2wheels]

Some things to think about (all my opinion):

This is a long rambling post but things are slow at work and this is a pet peave so this is what you get

Diesels are the end all be all for towing, however:
- diesels add initial cost, significantly in some cases
- diesel regular maintenance is expensive - check out what an oil change costs for example

After 30 seconds under a 3/4 ton truck, I'll never buy another 1/2 ton. Bigger axles, bigger, brakes, better springs, etc.
I've never had a dually but the tool man in me always wants one! I passed on a nice, black on red, 454, ex cab 2wd dually back in the 90s I still think about today.

I lived in Wichita KS for 3 years. I had a 4x4 Chevy. I used 4wheel drive 3 times and all 3 times I probably should not have been driving - the ice was bad and I was driving for giggles!

So you have to ask yourself, do you really need 4x4? If not, you save some $$ and increase tow capacity. Truck rides better, too. However, I think it's harder to find 2x4 full size trucks. Although, you might really need it.

I don't trust modern automatics. I trust PG, TH350, TH400, C6, C4, 727. Maybe even a 904. On the other hand, the E4OD in my van was rebuilt at 120k and still fine at 200K. I wish there was a manual option in the van but there's not and it's not cost effective to convert. And it was EXPENSIVE to rebuild. Burn up a TH400? Toss a few Franklins at it and you're good. Burn up an E4OD/4R100? Better have a 5x larger stack of bills.

I like vans better than pickups, but that's a different discussion. An E350 extended club wagon or econoline with a 7.3 would be perfect. Mine is not extended and has a 5.4 but it's paid for and I can fit 3 full size ATCs in it and I'm too cheap to change. It can and has towed. 10K once, but usually closer to 5k + internal load. From SoCal to Daytona for example. Even had 2 tons of tile in it once. And I can sleep in the back and stay dry.

So, I did a VERY QUICK Craigslist scan here ran some numbers:
CL 2001 F250 PSD listed for $9000
CL 2000 F250 V10 listed for $4000
Assume 10000 miles per year.
Assume V10 = 12MPG, PSD = 16MPG
Assume diesel oil change = $100, gas oil change = $30
Diesel here is $3.51 today, regular $3.01
PSD costs $0.22 per mile for fuel = $2193/year
V10 costs $0.26 per mile for fuel = $2558/year
So, if you drive 10000 miles, the diesel saves you $350 per year.
Of course, in that 10000 miles, you should have 3 oil changes. That's $210 extra so now you're only saving $140/year with the diesel.
It takes 35 years to get the $5000 extra back you spent initially to get the diesel.

I realize any and all assumptions above are ASSUMPTIONS, estimates, etc so use your own numbers and do the math. I'm not making a legal case, I presenting food for thought. And I'm not arguing a diesel is not the best for towing, I'm just presenting my thoughts on TCO.

So ask yourself some questions:
- How much and how often will you tow? A 5.4 or V10 or Hemi or 6.0 might be fine for you. Or, you might really need a diesel, Or, maybe you just want to make black smoke and impress your friends - that's valid too!
- Do you really need 4x4 or do you have some flexibility

[86T3]

Fabio, i don't like to argue on the internet but i have to in this case. You're always right about everything but not this. A 2wd dually with a diesel is absolutely the worst vehicle in the snow that you could find. I've had a 93 dodge extended cab dually with nearly new snow tires and a couple hundred pounds in the bed and was in the ditch within an hour of our october 13th storm several years back. I personally know 3 people with similarly set up trucks that take them off the road in the winter cause they're useless. I also know two people that take off the inside wheels to get some more traction. You don't want surface area in the snow. If there is any snow or slush on the road i put my truck in 4wd. Too much weight up front with that heavy motor and too little in the back for all the torque it makes.

Dcreel- the cost of the diesel vs gad trucks is small. All in all, it probably costs more per mile to run a diesel cause an oil change is about double that of a gas motor. Where you really make out with a diesel is with resale. I just sold my 93 dodge work truck for $6000 with 215K and no bed on it. Even if you wreck a diesel the motor, tranny, and axles are worth a fair amount.

[fabiodriven]

I also know two people that take off the inside wheels to get some more traction. You don't want surface area in the snow.

You are absolutely correct about not wanting a large contact patch in the snow. That's why people run skinny tires in the winter, that's the right way to do it. You are looking at this the wrong way though. A dual wheel truck has roughly the same size tire as a single wheel truck of a similar size. If two skinny tires push the truck better in snow, than 4 will work even better than two. Now instead of two skinny tires digging down to something firm to get traction, there are 4. The additional two tires are not impeding the other two from doing what they normally would do. What you don't want are fat tires.

I live in Massachusetts and we see plenty of snow up here. Not as much as some, but we get our fair share. I have been driving for about 15 years, 10 of those commercially. I've had 2 wheel drives and 4 wheel drives. This truck does better in the snow than any of my single wheel 2 wheel drive trucks. That's all I know.

[fabiodriven]

Also, you wouldn't have to look too far around here to find a 2wd dual wheel plow truck. I've never seen anything 2wd single wheel with a plow on it though.

[250r_doverdemon]

what you need a 73-87 chevy 4 door long box with a 4 inch lift and 33"x12.5" BFG mud terrain with a 1st gen cummins swap maybe a turbo kit. D60 up front and 14 bolt in the rear with 3:73 gearing, the famous gm 3 speed with granny low and a np203 t-case. some traction bars to the rear axle and your set. i bet it would still cost less to build this (if you did it yourself) then to buy a new truck and it would be way more reliable too! the 3:73 is a great towing gear and mild on mpgs but the 35" tires will compensate for that too.. the 4 spd tranny will let you pull anything you hook it onto and is still a bullet proof tranny. i think this would be probably the best truck on the road, its also my dream truck cept it would be a 71-72 chevy suburban cut down to a crew cab (3 door not the newer style 4 door) on a completely custom boxed frame with a short bed fleetside on the back. thats a real truck.

[86T3]

If two skinny tires push the truck better in snow, than 4 will work even better than two. Now instead of two skinny tires digging down to something firm to get traction, there are 4.

If you add the contact patch of four skinny wheels you come up with the same as 2 fatter ones. The sum is = to the whole.

Dcreel, i forgot to mention that most people don't need a 4wd, i dont know about your circumstances. If i didn't need to go offroad with my truck i'd have a 2 wheel drive. Not only do you get better fuel mileage, you get better tire wear and don't have to worry about front axle problems