Another ''My trike won't start thread'' 200x style

[ailll1]

Hi guys,
I've had my 1st 200x running for about 2 months now. Brand new cobra exhaust, new chinese carb rejetted, no airbox lid and cr85r front brake at the back.

So, I went doing a little bit of pit riding around my cottage. The trike ran great no issues whatsoever. Then, I turn it off to let it cool down a little bit. Went to start it, nothing. It didn't even try to fire up. Had to walk to the truck and bring it back in the bed.

Back home, I checked everything obvious: has spark, seems to be getting gas (wet plug), compression at 150psi. The only thing i've noticed is that when I kick it with the light switch at on, the headlight doesnt light up (like snowmobile do). What I thought is that the light coil might have burned but would that even affect how the trike run? BTW, I checked all the wiring for loose and dirty connections. I also unplugged the on/off switch with no result.

Any input on what might have happened is greatly appreciated!
Thanks!

[WIkid500]

Did you check for spark?

[yaegerb]

From what you have stated, you may want to try a different ignition coil and if that's not the culprit I would say your CDI or magneto is the problem.

[110klt]

Did you check for spark?

X2 check for spark

[yaegerb]

Guys, read above. He said it "has spark"

[EarlyBronocGuy]

If the plug gets too wet, it won't fire, you may have flooded it. Remove the plug and clean it, let it dry. While it's out, kick the engine over several times to clear out the combustion chamber. Put the clean plug back in, close the choke, and kick it over a few times - it should at least try to start. If it doesn't, pull the plug again and see if it's wet again - if it is, the carb is set too rich. If the plug is dry and it won't try to start, remove the intake tube from the carb, open the choke and throttle slide, and spray some carb cleaner, WD-40, or starter fluid into the carb and kick it a few times. If you've got spark, compression, and fuel, it should fire. If you're missing any one of those, it ain't gonna start.

[ailll1]

Like I said, it has a good spark (fat blue spark) Thanks Yaeberg for clearing that up for me!

If the plug gets too wet, it won't fire, you may have flooded it. Remove the plug and clean it, let it dry. While it's out, kick the engine over several times to clear out the combustion chamber. Put the clean plug back in, close the choke, and kick it over a few times - it should at least try to start. If it doesn't, pull the plug again and see if it's wet again - if it is, the carb is set too rich. If the plug is dry and it won't try to start, remove the intake tube from the carb, open the choke and throttle slide, and spray some carb cleaner, WD-40, or starter fluid into the carb and kick it a few times. If you've got spark, compression, and fuel, it should fire. If you're missing any one of those, it ain't gonna start.

Thats exactly what I dont get. Seems like I have all these condition for it to start or at least try to but nothing happens. Not even a little pout pout. Usually, its easy for me to find what wrong but this one has got me stumped. I'm really leaning toward an electrical problem so I'll try swapping parts with my 200s tomorrow. I suppose most electrical parts will interchange between the 2...

Thanks for the help!

[hoosierlogger]

Is it possible your timing plate shifted position?

[atc300r]

Sometimes your spark plug can have good spark when you check it.But mite not spark under pressure.Possible things.sheared flywheel key. timing jumped.

[oscarmayer]

pull the cdi cover off and look to ensure the rotor bolt did not back out and cause the toro to fall off, or the pickup did not move.

[ailll1]

pull the cdi cover off and look to ensure the rotor bolt did not back out and cause the toro to fall off, or the pickup did not move.

I looked under the CDI cap and everything is as it should. Nothing loose and spark advancer works properly.

I checked the timing, its spot on.
I tried both the CDI box and ignition coil on my 200s and they both work.
I tried spraying carb cleaner directly in the cylinder and trying to start it, nothing.
I switched the alternator coils that ride inside the flywheel with another one I had too.
New plug too

I'm getting spark, but it seems to be intermittent. Sometime, one handkick will make it spark, the next one wont. Maybe thats just because I'm not making it spin fast enough with my hand that make it look intermittent...

I'm completly lost on what to do next...

[kb0nly]

There sure has been a rash of spark problems on here lately... LOL

I feel your pain, i just got done with two days of troubleshooting intermittent spark on my 84 200ES this last week and posted up everything i found. Ended up being a CDI problem but boy did it take time to narrow it down and get it working right. If your spark is intermittent i would guess electrical issue yet, just go over every connection as a double check first.

You were riding it, parked it, and then it quit... Hmm.. Something got hot and probably gave up the ghost as it cooled off, i see stuff like that all the time, the famous "it was running great then i shut it off" comment comes around a lot. I fiddle around on just about anything with a motor and so i have gotten pretty good at finding these problems but i certainly don't know it all yet, who does!

Get a wiring diagram, start going through it by the numbers. The spark being intermittent and not starting tends to make me think, and in this order, spark plug, plug wire and cap, coil, cdi, pulse generator. You said you tried the CDI and coil on your other trike, ok those are out. Did you try a brand spanking new spark plug yet? I know it sounds stupid to ask this but you know how many times i told someone with a lawnmower having the same issue to change the plug and it fixed it?

Timing you said is spot on.. You swapped the stator coil... It has to be a wiring/electrical problem somewhere. You said it has compression, did you test it with a gauge to see if its consistent? I had a trx250 here once that was fine all day long on the trail but then they shut it off and it wouldn't ever start again, found the intake valve was sticking on it after all that work. It would have intermittent compression.

Good luck!

[ailll1]

Yep I tried a brand new spark plug, right out of the box. Now that you got me thinking about it, I did not check for continuity at the spark plug cap only at the wire. Will check that.
I will also switch pulse generator with my other trike. It tested good with my multi-meter but I want to make sure.
Is there any way to test the stator coil with an ohmeter? I looked in the service manual but theres nothing about it.
I did check the compression with a guage twice. Cold and WOT the guage reads 150psi which is plenty for it to start.

BTW, I have read the thread you posted about your CDI problem and thats a very interesting write-up you did there! You seem to know a lot about electronics unlike me hahah. I've got good skill about the mechanical parts but I get lost with how electricity works LOL. Thats why I tend to swap with known working parts instead of trying to understand whats wrong with it.

Anyways, thanks for your time trying to help me out! Really appreciated!

[kb0nly]

The electrical stuff is where i am good! Although mechanically i can hold my own but i do love a good electrical problem to solve... LOL

The stator coil can be checked with an Ohm meter. If its like the other 200's, pretty sure it is but i haven't ever had my hands on a 200x around here just s,e,es for that engine size, you should have a black/red wire along with the alternator wires coming out by the pull starter. Unplug it then check continuity from the black/red wire to ground, should NOT be a dead short, and should not be infinite resistance aka open (digital meters show this as a number 1 or a symbol depending on the meter). Should be around 100-400 ohms from that wire to ground. I always tell everyone if your not good with a meter then get an old school test light, one with a regular bulb not an led, and put the ground clip for it on the battery negative or another good frame ground and the tip of the probe to that black/red wire then crank over the engine, you should see the light flicker/flash/light up depending on how fast you spin the engine over if the stator coil is good and making voltage.

You can also measure it with a meter, just remember the stator coil output is AC voltage, 10-30v depending on engine speed.

Sounds like you have plenty of compression so no worries there!! Has to be an electrical problem at this point.

Edit: Forgot the 200x doesn't have a recoil starter, Anyway you know where i was talking about its that side of the engine for the wiring.

[ailll1]

The spark plug cap is good, pulse generator too.
I checked the resistance on the stator coils. The smaller one(black wire) had 219ohm but the bigger one(lightning coil, green wire) had 1.5ohm(continuity) which is good according to the manual. The other stator coils I had has 119ohm at the small coil and open circuit at the lightning coil. lightning coil is burned up.

Everything tests good so next thing I'll do is check every wire 1 by 1 for shorts or broken wire. Oh man...