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Thread: 1984 200ES CDI Replacement, MythBusted..

  1. #1
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    1984 200ES CDI Replacement, MythBusted..

    After posting my dissection and repair of an 84 CDI i decided it was time to take this one step further, first off, the replacement of the CDI on a 84 since everyone is convinced its a hoodoo voodoo box that can't be replaced.

    First off, yes the 84 is different then other years, but its nothing special. Because the 84 had reverse there is a reverse switch input which is a gray wire that is grounded when the sub trans is shifted into reverse, for some reason they decided for safety sake that you shouldn't be able to crank the starter when its in reverse, even if the shifter is in neutral.. I don't know why but this is how mine worked, if i had it in reverse to back into the shed and kicked her to neutral but left it in reverse before shutting off i couldn't then start it until i also moved the sub-trans lever out of reverse.

    Anyway, i fixed my CDI as i posted in the other thread. And it was still running fine after days of riding, no issues loosing spark again, but the spark still didn't look that strong to me. I bought a new DR8ES-L plug and it looked a little better but still not what i would call an optimal spark and the plug seemed to be fouling again, i also noticed it would randomly pop while cruising along in 3rd-5th gear and half throttle or more, it was missing! So i decided since i have been through everything else electrical and mechanical on this BR i would replace the CDI.

    First thing i did was go to

    http://dratv.com/cdiunatseeap.html

    And purchase a CDI unit from him along with the male/female connector kit. Total cost of about $26 plus shipping. Local dealer wants $199.00 for a replacement CDI for the 84 and its special order. The CDI from DrATV has no reverse safety and it has no rev limiter function, so its a basic CDI but it works fine. It even fits the stock mounting rubber that the original was in, the size is roughly the same.

    Follow the wiring diagram he has on that page with the CDI. I removed the contacts from the stock round connector with the intent to just put them in the shell of the new connector but a couple of the contacts looked pretty rough, someone had tried tightening them up before by pinching with a pliers. So i cut off the old crimps and used the new ones with the connector kit. I crimped them on carefully with a needle nose pliers then soldered each on as well to insure they stay put. Popped the wires into the positions following the picture on his site and hit the start button...

    ROAR... Holy crap i about shat myself. I have never heard it crack over that healthy and it barely turned over with the starter, i would say first plug fire had it running smooth. No more pop while cruising and the idle is much better, though i have a throttle cable problem to sort out yet as i have to take apart the throttle and grease it so it returns fully back to idle without getting stuck just above idle.

    As for the spark improvement?? From yellowish with the original CDI to a VERY strong light blue white spark, i put my spark tester inline before the plug and it has enough voltage now to not only jump the test gap in the tester but also the spark plug at the same time and still run while the tester is inline, before it wouldn't run with the tester inline though i did see spark in the tester.

    So moral of the story, if you have an 84 get a new CDI for it if your having ignition or running problems!
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    1984 Honda ATC200ES "Big Red"
    1982 ATC200E "Hondie"
    1988 TRX300FW "Project Quad" Still in progress....

  2. #2
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    Thanks for another great post, I have ordered a Lifan 125 for my ATC 70 and that got me thinking if a C90 cdi will work on a 200ES and the Lifan seems to be a copy of the horizontal Honda engines would the Chinese 5 Pin cdi not work on the 200es as well.

    I found this on a british site dedicated to the Honda TLR trials bike:

    http://www.classictrial.co.uk/hondacdi.html

    See what they say about spark intensity deterioating overs the years, all my 200es seem to have weak sparks!

    So I have ordered a Chinese 5 Pin cdi and will give it a try as soon as I can get to my trikes(they are at our holiday place).
    1984 Honda ATC200ES BIG RED x6

    1983 Honda ATC200E BIG RED x3

    1984 Honda ATC70 LITTLE RED

    1983 Honda ATC185S(200E engine)

    1984 Honda ATC200X

    1985 ATC 70

    1983 ATC 70

  3. #3
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    Great work KB!! VERY quality post. In my years fixing sleds and bikes,,yes,,it is a AWESOME sound to hear an engine crank with a good hardy spark!!
    Please help those who cannot help themselves.

    ALWAYS buying Museum quality machines,3 and 4 wheels. And any and ALL ,NOS parts,EVERY brand.

    I am turning my PM's Off,my Email is billsracing@hotmail.com,put 3WW in the subject. Thanx!

    Gun laws do not stop criminals. BULLETS do.

  4. #4
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    GTO - ANY five/six pin CDI will work on the 200ES. Now that i have the rectangular plug wired on mine i tried a few different CDI units i have here as spares, some are from trikes some are from dirt bikes, one is off an old honda scooter i think, anyway they all work and create a lot better spark then the stock CDI unit.

    I found some CDI units on eBay for $5 each, brand new, from China. For that price, with free shipping no less, i am going to order four of them for the cost of one from DrATV just to evaluate them and keep as spares. I want to compare spark output as well as engine behavior using these el' cheapo's because i know of a few other trike owners fighting weak/intermittent spark. I wish i had a better source for the connector, i don't YET... I say YET because i am going to call a couple electronics suppliers of mine and see if i can source the connector cheaper in a bulk quantity, also the male/female connector kit that DrATV is selling doesn't have the mating latch for the CDI unit, the connector plugs in tight though and i put a zip tie around it to make sure it can't vibrate out over time, but if they can be found then why not.

    Think there is any interest in selling a retrofit kit? Basically a new/tested CDI unit with plug/contact kit and wiring diagram? It's easy enough for everyone to source the parts themselves just thinking out loud.

    atc007 - Thanks! And it sure is awesome! It ran "ok" before but the sound difference and power on acceleration is mind blowing now. I now see why it was fouling plugs so bad with the stock CDI unit.
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    1984 Honda ATC200ES "Big Red"
    1982 ATC200E "Hondie"
    1988 TRX300FW "Project Quad" Still in progress....

  5. #5
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    http://www.vintageconnections.com/

    They have the male and female latching connector with crimps for both, $3 for the pair. Just found my new supplier for these!
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    1984 Honda ATC200ES "Big Red"
    1982 ATC200E "Hondie"
    1988 TRX300FW "Project Quad" Still in progress....

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by kb0nly View Post
    GTO - ANY five/six pin CDI will work on the 200ES. Now that i have the rectangular plug wired on mine i tried a few different CDI units i have here as spares, some are from trikes some are from dirt bikes, one is off an old honda scooter i think, anyway they all work and create a lot better spark then the stock CDI unit.

    I found some CDI units on eBay for $5 each, brand new, from China. For that price, with free shipping no less, i am going to order four of them for the cost of one from DrATV just to evaluate them and keep as spares. I want to compare spark output as well as engine behavior using these el' cheapo's because i know of a few other trike owners fighting weak/intermittent spark. I wish i had a better source for the connector, i don't YET... I say YET because i am going to call a couple electronics suppliers of mine and see if i can source the connector cheaper in a bulk quantity, also the male/female connector kit that DrATV is selling doesn't have the mating latch for the CDI unit, the connector plugs in tight though and i put a zip tie around it to make sure it can't vibrate out over time, but if they can be found then why not.
    I am glad to here that any 5 pin CDI should work, I should be able to get to my trikes in 2 weeks time to give it a try, I will hook the CDI up in the mean time without the connector.

    5$ is cheap could you post the link, the one I sourced online locally here cost me the equivilant of $40, there is a guy here in Cape Town who has them for around $20 but he is out of stock at the moment.
    So if it works I will wait until he gets his new stock so I can replace the others.

    I will try and source the connector locally but I did find these on ebay:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/180363992879...84.m1438.l2649
    1984 Honda ATC200ES BIG RED x6

    1983 Honda ATC200E BIG RED x3

    1984 Honda ATC70 LITTLE RED

    1983 Honda ATC185S(200E engine)

    1984 Honda ATC200X

    1985 ATC 70

    1983 ATC 70

  7. #7
    sinsayers's Avatar
    sinsayers is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerFirst time rider
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    Great info guys. Keep up the good work
    1985 ATC 200X <Stock>
    1985 250 ES Big Red
    triplejssportinggoods.com

  8. #8
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    http://www.ebay.com/itm/CDI-Box-One-...fe7df0&vxp=mtr

    Thats the one i bought four of, the number on the top of it in the photo is the same as another one i have, don't remember what it actually came off of, but it works just find on the 200es so i figured i would get some ordered in for spares for mine and others.

    Yep that link you posted is the connector you need. Overseas for me but good for you! I am going to order a few sets from the vintage connectors website that i linked. With those and the spares i should have a CDI for any trike i have come through here now.
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    1984 Honda ATC200ES "Big Red"
    1982 ATC200E "Hondie"
    1988 TRX300FW "Project Quad" Still in progress....

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinsayers View Post
    Great info guys. Keep up the good work
    Thanks! Now go fix that 85... LOL
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    1984 Honda ATC200ES "Big Red"
    1982 ATC200E "Hondie"
    1988 TRX300FW "Project Quad" Still in progress....

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kb0nly View Post
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/CDI-Box-One-...fe7df0&vxp=mtr

    Thats the one i bought four of, the number on the top of it in the photo is the same as another one i have, don't remember what it actually came off of, but it works just find on the 200es so i figured i would get some ordered in for spares for mine and others.

    Yep that link you posted is the connector you need. Overseas for me but good for you! I am going to order a few sets from the vintage connectors website that i linked. With those and the spares i should have a CDI for any trike i have come through here now.
    Damn they don't have South Africa on there list of shipping destinations, seems like only to Europe but the shipping is high any way($19).

    I found this one little bit more but they ship to SA.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-PIN-CDI-PI...c314fe&vxp=mtr

    Works out a bit cheaper than I can get it here but I would still have to pay customs tax on it when it arrives.
    Last edited by GTO; 06-09-2012 at 04:54 AM.
    1984 Honda ATC200ES BIG RED x6

    1983 Honda ATC200E BIG RED x3

    1984 Honda ATC70 LITTLE RED

    1983 Honda ATC185S(200E engine)

    1984 Honda ATC200X

    1985 ATC 70

    1983 ATC 70

  11. #11
    Howdy's Avatar
    Howdy is offline Putting Priorities in Order, Busier than ever. Catch me if you can
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTO View Post
    Damn they don't have South Africa on there list of shipping destinations, seems like only to Europe but the shipping is high any way($19).

    I found this one little bit more but they ship to SA.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-PIN-CDI-PIT-BIKE-ATV-GOKART-SDG-SSR-PITSTER-PRO-TAOTAO-KAZUMA-ROKETA-TAOTAO-/250966381822?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash =item3a6ec314fe&vxp=mtr

    Works out a bit cheaper than I can get it here but I would still have to pay customs tax on it when it arrives.
    Buy what you need and have it shipped to me. Once I get it I will send you a gift or "return and item to you"!!! You shouldn't have to pay customs on a return.
    Might save you some $$!!
    HowdyHowdy

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howdy View Post
    Buy what you need and have it shipped to me. Once I get it I will send you a gift or "return and item to you"!!! You shouldn't have to pay customs on a return.
    Might save you some $$!!
    HowdyHowdy
    Thanks Howdy, once I have tested the one I have ordered locally here.
    If it works I will send you a PM
    1984 Honda ATC200ES BIG RED x6

    1983 Honda ATC200E BIG RED x3

    1984 Honda ATC70 LITTLE RED

    1983 Honda ATC185S(200E engine)

    1984 Honda ATC200X

    1985 ATC 70

    1983 ATC 70

  13. #13
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    My CDI arrived today, i found a 6 pin extension at my local electrical wholesaler just down the road.
    So they aren't that difficult to source after all.
    I should be able to get to our holiday place next weekend to give the CDI a try.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fish Hoek-20120612-00002.jpg   Fish Hoek-20120612-00001.jpg  
    1984 Honda ATC200ES BIG RED x6

    1983 Honda ATC200E BIG RED x3

    1984 Honda ATC70 LITTLE RED

    1983 Honda ATC185S(200E engine)

    1984 Honda ATC200X

    1985 ATC 70

    1983 ATC 70

  14. #14
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    Awesome! That should get you up and running again! Make sure you do a good job splicing the wires, i would probably just solder and heatshrink each connection, but if you can find them over there you can get heatshrinkable/glue lined butt splices. Thats what i usually use, they are a crimp style butt splice but have a double wall heatshrink tubing already applied to them with hot melt glue lining, so when you shrink them down after crimping they seal up tight, no water problems.
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    1984 Honda ATC200ES "Big Red"
    1982 ATC200E "Hondie"
    1988 TRX300FW "Project Quad" Still in progress....

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kb0nly View Post
    Awesome! That should get you up and running again! Make sure you do a good job splicing the wires, i would probably just solder and heatshrink each connection, but if you can find them over there you can get heatshrinkable/glue lined butt splices. Thats what i usually use, they are a crimp style butt splice but have a double wall heatshrink tubing already applied to them with hot melt glue lining, so when you shrink them down after crimping they seal up tight, no water problems.
    I will remove the old connectors from the round plug first and hook them up to the new cdi to test it first then I was going to cut the wires on the extension and solder them to the wires on the harness.
    1984 Honda ATC200ES BIG RED x6

    1983 Honda ATC200E BIG RED x3

    1984 Honda ATC70 LITTLE RED

    1983 Honda ATC185S(200E engine)

    1984 Honda ATC200X

    1985 ATC 70

    1983 ATC 70

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