Tri-z overheating help!!!

[oile]

it is moist around the base gasket. 92octane fuel. do you think it might be sucking air around the base gasket?

[oile]

I have a 38pwk i thought about putting on it but then i was thinking the other Tri-z;s don't have this issue

[TimSr]

Im having a little trouble following this thread and the recommended fixes. Are we still talking about blowing coolant, or has this been solved and we are talking about other problems?

The coolant system is very simple, and easy to troubleshoot on the TriZ. Its blows coolant for only two reasons. Either its overheating, or cylinder compression is leaking into the cooling system through the head gasket. Overheating is caused 95% of the time by no coolant flow, 5% for other reasons.

1. Check flow. This is easy with no thermostat. Open the radiator cap, and start the bike, and look in there. If you have no flow, you may have made an error in reassembly, such as losing the little pin that holds the plastic gear from spinning on the shaft. Every thermostat I've ever seen fail, fails stuck open, which will not cause you to overheat. I haven't run one in years. The only place they are helpful is in very cold whether in which you can't reach stable operating temp easily, which I've never had, even in Ohio winter riding.

2. If you have good flow, put the cap back on, and you need to determine whether its actually overheating, or blowing coolant due to compression leaking into coolant system. If its actual overheating it will take much longer to get hot enough to blow, and when it does, its more steam than coolant coming out. It will continue blowing steam, even when just idling. There are a number of things that can be addressed, and I won't begin to go into those things until a diagnosis brings it to this point, because its not very often the case.

3. If it starts spitting collant after just after just a little bit of warmup, with little steam, and seems to spit large bursts each time you rev, you are most likely leaking cylinder compression through the head gasket into the cooling ports. This is fairly common with TriZs'. The heads are softer, and tend to warp easier than Hondas, and the head torque specs are usually inadequate. I think they recommend 22lbs, and I use about 26lb, same as Honda. Also, the metal OEM type head gaskets are much more prone to leakage. The Cometic/Wiseco fiber type are far better sealing on the triZ.




Base gasket leaks are common, from warped jubs with dog eared corners. I have yet to see one noticeably affect the way it runs. I have a jug at home that has a crack 5/4 of the way around the reed housing, and found it only with visual inspection. The TriZ ran flawlessly.

Fuel pumps can be checked simply by poulling the gas line off the carb, and kicking it over. If it sqirts each time to kick, its good. They never marginally fail. thery either work, or they don't. If you have insufficient fuel delivery, is in the float and float needle setup, and is usually character ized by either gas running out the bowl overflow, or sudden cuttoff during extended acceleration. It rarely causes any issues of how it runs in between the extremes.

One other note, is if you are jetted too lean, you can melt your piston without ever "overheating" your machine. Jetting rarely has anything to do with overheating a liquid cooled machine.

[badass350x]

In fact the pump diaphragm will leak while running filling the crank case with gas from the pulse line causing all kinds of problems..

[oile]

TimSr this is what i have done to try to fix this over heating problem. I installed a new water pump and seal installed a different head and a new head gasket but it was the all metal head gasket removed the thermostat flushed the cooling system checked for flow in radiator cleaned the outside of radiator to make sure no mud was in it checked timing with dial indicator to spec in service manual and still no luck.

[fabiodriven]

Thank Christ Tim Sr. finally replied. Man, you guys are nuts grasping at straws here.

TimSr this is what i have done to try to fix this over heating problem. I installed a new water pump and seal installed a different head and a new head gasket but it was the all metal head gasket removed the thermostat flushed the cooling system checked for flow in radiator cleaned the outside of radiator to make sure no mud was in it checked timing with dial indicator to spec in service manual and still no luck.

Re-read what Tim told you to do. There is no way it could be made any easier. He told you what to do and the cause of every defect it could be. The answers are all there.

And to the guys suggesting fuel pumps and jetting , you guys are nuts. Like Tim said, you'll melt the piston before the bike will overheat from that.

[oile]

i really think its a over heating problem cause i used a head gasket leak detector tool its designed to check leaks between combustion chamber and cooling system in watercooled engines. so basically im trying to figure out what is making it overheat and it steaming coolant out at idle

[fabiodriven]

Please, please, please, read again what Tim said and just do it. You're asking for help, he's pointing you in the right direction.

Did you watch for water flow as suggested?

[MTS]

Thank Christ Tim Sr. finally replied. Man, you guys are nuts grasping at straws here.



Re-read what Tim told you to do. There is no way it could be made any easier. He told you what to do and the cause of every defect it could be. The answers are all there.

And to the guys suggesting fuel pumps and jetting , you guys are nuts. Like Tim said, you'll melt the piston before the bike will overheat from that.

So when did asking questions become insulting? I have had overheating issues with My triz to the point it blew an o-ring in the head, yea sure happens, was it lean? yes, did it melt a piston? no, it got a bit tight but it was caught in time. Like tim said 95% of the time overheating is caused by no-flow, 5% "other reasons". Tims advice is a good start, not aguring that. I suppose we just did not put it all in one nice neat tidy post. I would however appreciate not being called nuts and pulling straws over a few simple suggestions of things to check when trying to diagnosise a problem over the internet with a machine 3000 miles away, ya dig?

[badass350x]

Yeah we are nuts, but yet we have some of the sickest z's there is to be found and they run even better!!! But yeah don't worry about us guys that are nuts because that's about what I am! Disregard what I have said an don't check into anything I mentioned because I'm NUTS.....

[Mosh]

Tim sr's Tri-Z's are sick too...Very sick...Sick from running 70+ Mx races over the last half dozen years every weekend...They don't need to be pretty to have the dogsnot run out of them week after week.

To the OP...Is there anyway the head gasket may have been installed incorrectly?

[oile]

So Mosh are you saying you could install the head gasket up side down?

[fabiodriven]

Whine all you want. I'm not the one who has a guy checking his fuel pump for a coolant overflow problem.

[TimSr]

In fact the pump diaphragm will leak while running filling the crank case with gas from the pulse line causing all kinds of problems..

Yep, seen it. Fills the crank with gas, blows smoke like a steam locamotive, runs like crap, and floods out an dies, wont start until you drain it, and dry it out. I did not see where he described any of those symptoms. Nor can I conceive any possible way the result of a leaking fuel pump diaphram causes coolant to blow out the overflow.

[TimSr]

So Mosh are you saying you could install the head gasket up side down?

Yes. On many of the metal layered ones the top metal layer has a slightly smaller center hole. If you install it upside down, the piston can hit it.


Did you ever visually verify good coolant flow? Did you replace the impeller because of this problem, or did the problem occur afterwards?