kawasaki factory r and d engineer and rider

[t65h]

hello t65h

"thanks for the question. i have to give you the abbreviated question. it worked like this. kawi did more development in the us than anyone else for some reason. basically the engineers design the bike on paper. this was before and during the advent of autocad. the math is the same but auto cad does a lot of it for you. all vehicles were designed and built in then sent here for testing to find the bugs and fix them. belive me thete are many and some very serious like frames cracking in half etc. test riding at the speeds i was going is very dangerous. i'll tell you the police bike story and hiw the original tecate came about later if you want. anyway what worked perfectly on paper never ever worked perfectly in reality. the higher performance the bike was the more work the prototype needed. take 84 tecate as an example. kawai would tell me what target market it was aimed at ie recreational or pure race etc. i would test all vehicles to max capacity to determine potential problems arising under worse case scenario. then i would test them for target purpose. all vehicles were also tested in water and high heat. the motors rarely needed much improvement other than carburetion etc. the suspension always needed work and the chassis too. i would fix them with what i had or could fabricate in house any special parts were made virtually overnight in japan and next day aired to me. very very cool. once i got it to a level i determined to be acceptable for production i would write my report and send it off. the next thing i saw was the pre production model for final testing. all vehicles went through a horrendous final endurance test".

hope this sort of answers your question. thanks

not for publication

barnett468 thanks for the answer. I enjoy hearing about the development. I am an engineer, so I am always interested in the details. You had mentioned about something happening with the shootout. Can you share that? I want to hear more!! Thank you.

[barnett468]

barnett468 thanks for the answer. I enjoy hearing about the development. I am an engineer, so I am always interested in the details. You had mentioned about something happening with the shootout. Can you share that? I want to hear more!! Thank you.

Thank you again t65.

you and i speak a similar language and you probably understand everything i have said thus far and the reasons for my replies.

"I will read the shootout again shortly and expand my answer if necessary, i don't remember it all. my problem is in no way with the varied skill levels of the riders used or the varied tests they did. from what i remember it was all very good and i enjoyed it and thoght it was fair. after all they did say that if one wanted an all out, straight out of the box, race ready machine the kawi was best. keep in mind that we dealt with the magazines and their tests very often so i know how the protocol typically works. the single biggest problem is that they said the suspension bottomed and complained about it. typically if a magazine had encountered a noticeable problem during testing they should not only have had the courtesy but also the obligation [if they want all mfg's products to be as good as possible for the enjoyment and safety of the general public], to contact the mfg immediately and say hey this thing has a big problem are you ganna do anything about it? this gives the mfg an opportunity to investigate the problem and determine if the mfg really is a moron [sometimes true] or if it is simply a matter of the factory assembly line accidentally setting up the bike with the wrong setting which is easily correctible. neither the mfg nor should the magazine want to have a new bike sold to the public that has a significant flaw. why would they?

basically they said it bottomed excessively and did not like that part of it. had they called kawi to inform them of the problem they encountered kawi would have transfered them to tech dept, tech dept would have then contacted me and i would have told tech to transfer them directly to me. once i heard the problem i would have inatantly loaded up our pre productiion model and driven there to meet them to see why it was bottoming out [if in fact it was] and fix it right there and if i couldn't then i would have just ripped off my pre production suspension and installed it for them. they could have also ridden the pre pro unit to see that that bike did not bottom.

here's the deal, the proto type and pre pro bikes both with my suspension set up did not bottom. this was a major unrepairable problem with the 84/85 model, the 86 was redesigned partially to correct this problem. i was a pro racer so i flogged the livin ____ out of that thing which ibcluded mostly testing on ungraded saddleback mx style courses but included tt, short track and palm springs sand dunes etc. my test for suspension bottoming included a 60 mph+ 15foot high jump [not for the faint of heart] as well as straight sheer slow speed 10' drop offs, both done on rock hard dry surfaces. if anyone doesn't think this is absolutely punishing just try it sometime. it was set to just barely bottom softly occasionally under a couple these and other conditions.

anyway long story long, if i couldn't bottom it there is no possible way they could have bottomed it as easily as they say they did [even if they weighed more than i did] providing it had my correct suspension setting on it and they didn't tell kawi about the bottoming problem therefore i couldn't fix it and that pushed us back in their test a little".

thanks again

not for reprint





ni/bike with


toxem they would have traput them

[just ben]

hello just ben thanks for the question.

"i am not quite sure exactly what you are talking about so please, please ket me know the EXACT problem you have had and i can probably answer you in specific detail. i would love to hear about it. all ignitions were designed by japan with cost considerations in mind. i was not allowed to do much to them. i did do what i could with the stocker. the original test one had NO REV LIMITER while that would obviously be anyone riders preference including mine [man that sucker would sing] japan decided that the potential warranties they would incuur by allowing it to rev to the universe and beyond were not worth the additiinal power and rpm that was gained without it. keep this in mind. jimmy white, donnie luce and chris white all ran stock ignitions and won many races and a few national championships with them. so in regards to all aspects of the ignition whether i liked it or not it was good enough. if you are referring to the incessant detonation a stock bike has i will gladly answer that if you need".

ps i like your little yellow beer guys.

thanks again.

not for publication

I was refering to exploding flywheels taking out the stator plate and sometimes breaking cases.If your lucky enough for your flywheel to stay intact no worries the stator will crap out on it's own. I suspect alot of it is caused by vibrations from not having a counter balancer.However the kx's of the same era did'nt have the same issues,Their flywheel magnets were held on with screws rather than glue and the stator coils seemed to hold up alot better. In the past 2 years I have replaced 6 or 7 stators on my own bikes and a few on friends bikes.

[barnett468]

I was refering to exploding flywheels taking out the stator plate and sometimes breaking cases.If your lucky enough for your flywheel to stay intact no worries the stator will crap out on it's own. I suspect alot of it is caused by vibrations from not having a counter balancer.However the kx's of the same era did'nt have the same issues,Their flywheel magnets were held on with screws rather than glue and the stator coils seemed to hold up alot better. In the past 2 years I have replaced 6 or 7 stators on my own bikes and a few on friends bikes.

hello thanks for the reply what year is your bike? it would most likely have happened on an 86/87 model cause the early ones seemed good. i never heard of that and never had that experience. they typically would have given me an updated version to test. very strange i don't think jimmy ever broke one either. either way even though your bike is way out of warranty i would call kawi tech it is possible that if either you or a shop sends it in for you and the shop reinstalls it they might warranty it believe it or not. the squeaky wheel sometimes [not always] gets the grease. that would not make me very happy

it is possible the stator mfg [maybe hitachi not kawi] changed the glue spec or something without telling kawi. i can assure if it would have happened during testing on either bike thay would have fixed it.

ps if you are all running on a loose fitting crank shaft or on a rebuikt crank that could also contribute to the problem. see if there is a common denominator cause it obviously doesn't matter how many free ones you get if it breaks the first day of a 3 day weekend. there are also variable advance ones available i think.

KAWI MOTORS USA IRVINE 949-770-0400 ask for tech dept.

thanks again

[just ben]

Why would the later models be more prone to it since they all have the same ignition? (besides the 84 having a bigger cdi case and 86-87 having shorter stator wires)You seem to be a little uninformed for a former team green rider and R&D engineer. I call And again the only question you avoided:" what did you say your name was again?"

[barnett468]

Why would the later models be more prone to it since they all have the same ignition? (besides the 84 having a bigger cdi case and 86-87 having shorter stator wires)You seem to be a little uninformed for a former team green rider and R&D engineer. I call And again the only question you avoided:" what did you say your name was again?"

i tried to help you. i answered your question to the best of my ability. i suggested what you could do, i gave you the number of kawi and all you can do instead of saying thanks is try to insult me. it's clear you never wanted an answer you simply had an agenda to stir up trouble. your words and actions speak for themselves. your parents onviously failed to teach you to treat others with respect. enough said.

my name has no relevance to you. no one here would know it anyway and i certainly don't want peole like you to know it so it is a form of protection against antagonizers such as yourself.

[ezmoney1979]

So you designed and tested the Tecate ATVs, beat Jimmy White once and were involved with magazine tests, but nobody would know who you are and you don't have any pictures from your racing or testing days? I hope you understand that some of us might be a bit skeptical. And I have a feeling that if I called a Kawi tech department and told them my flywheel came apart on my Tecate, they would wonder what that has to do with Mexican beer.

[barnett468]

So you designed and tested the Tecate ATVs, beat Jimmy White once and were involved with magazine tests, but nobody would know who you are and you don't have any pictures from your racing or testing days? I hope you understand that some of us might be a bit skeptical. And I have a feeling that if I called a Kawi tech department and told them my flywheel came apart on my Tecate, they would wonder what that has to do with Mexican beer.

your beer comment is actually pretty funny and probably true.

well it's very simple just call jimmy or donnie. they won't need my name they'll tell you who i am without it. my name only appeared in a few race results from that time therefore it won't help you. kawasaki, honda and suzuki r and d employee names never appeared in any magazine article. the only names you might see are those from pr department. it was their job to be out in the public, it was our job to avoid it. if you have a very old magazine from 1983/1984 you will see a telephoto spy photo of two tecates side by side on the tt track at saddlrback mx course which was owned by a guy named hendricks i think, anyway the title read new kawi 3 wheeler or something. i am on one and the other is ridden by the r and d motorcycle tester who was an ex 125 ama national rider. if you don't call kawi you will never know will you?

i don't think you would get anywhere but since this the one and only option left to get a free or discounted unit i really don't understand why one wouldn't attempt it. just doesn't make sense does it? better just to sit around and do nithing but complain i guess.

we were not allowed to take or keep personal photos of any projects due to confidentiality agreements we signed when we were hired. it's a fairly secretive place.

i'll give you a clue but you'll have to find the results. saddleback tt me first, jimmie second, beat him on a set of used tires he gave me in san diego, annual perris gp team race jimmy, donnie and myself first, team homda second, la colliseum me second, san diego indoor jimmy first me 5th, big bear gp jimmy first me 5th. several other corona top finishes.


PS - Actually one honda race mechanic [not r and d tech] did appear in an article, his name was dan betley you can find it online. he started at kawi about 6 montes after i did ask him about "chuckie".

[ps2fixer]

kawi on the other hand asked me to turn the 86 tecate into a 4 wheeler using as many 3 wheeler parts as possible. that's another story i'll gladly tell if someone wants to know!

I would like to hear the story .

[barnett468]

[QUOTE=ps2fixer;1191584]I would like to hear the story .[/QUOTE


Hello thanks for the question

I’ll try to make it short. Sometime in 1986 the r and d supervisor came to me and said japan wanted me to make a 4 wheeler out of the t3 using as many of the t3 parts as humanly possible including hardware and with little or no modification. And they needed it yesterday. They did not tell me why. Perhaps they sensed the ban was coming and wanted to salvage what they could instead of just tossing it all away. I thought cool this will be fun so I took one next door to the machine shop took it apart as needed then threw it up on our fabrication table which was about a 2” thick 4’ x 7’ piece of solid steel with 2 ½ foot long legs on it. Very heavy. Didn’t have enough time to draw it all out so I basically had to just buld it on the fly. Of course I had the Suzuki as a model which was helpful. So I ended up using the t3 frame with serious mods of course. Wrestled up the necessary front end parts and grafted them to the t3. I then seriously modified some existing plastic and tossed it on the front. No it wasn’t pretty but they didn’t ask for pretty they asked for now. And that’s what they got. Well I finished it on maybe 3 weeks and took it out to test. The thing actually worked extremely well and it was fairly light. Tested it against the Suzuki and it was pretty close. My chassis was just a tiny bit flexy though. This could have been corrected through a new chassis design. Slightly soft on the stock t3 rear suspension but not bad. The goal was to build a good recreational 4 wheeler not an all out racer. It exceeded that goal by a mile. Believe me I felt a little lucky it came out so good but I did my homework and had a good platform. It took me 4 days to write the many page report which included every nut, bolt, screw and washer I saved from the t3. I was seeing double by the time I was done.

Ok here’s the problem. What became of it you ask? This leads into a story that is related to the infamous t4. I’ll tell you that story also if you want.

We also had a Suzuki quad we turned into a 4 wheel drive if you want to hear about that sometime. I had everybody calling it the chain saw [massacre]. Kinda made the builder mad.

PS – We also never tossed a single atv or jet ski we worked on while I was there. We had a whole room dedicated to the projects.

Thanks again

[ps2fixer]

A room dedicated where projects ended up.... sounds like a museum in the making .

Taking a wild guess the 4x4 converted Suzuki ended up something like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gxO2AoA-Jc

I'm going to throw more of an engering question your way. If three wheelers were still in production, how do you think the rear suspension would be? Looking at most sport and utility quads, they basically have all gone to indepenant suspension. I have also heard of on road three wheelers using a tilt based design. I think it would be neat to modernize our three wheelers a bit, but at the same time, I know it would really effect handling and such, just not sure if it would be good or bad.





Going backwards, the early 70s models didn't really have suspension (atleast the hondas didn't), I can see why, it was better to have the soft tires .

[barnett468]

A room dedicated where projects ended up.... sounds like a museum in the making .

Taking a wild guess the 4x4 converted Suzuki ended up something like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gxO2AoA-Jc

I'm going to throw more of an engering question your way. If three wheelers were still in production, how do you think the rear suspension would be? Looking at most sport and utility quads, they basically have all gone to indepenant suspension. I have also heard of on road three wheelers using a tilt based design. I think it would be neat to modernize our three wheelers a bit, but at the same time, I know it would really effect handling and such, just not sure if it would be good or bad.





Going backwards, the early 70s models didn't really have suspension (atleast the hondas didn't), I can see why, it was better to have the soft tires .

hello ps2fixr thanks for the question

it was definitely a museum get this we had a 1973 h2 still in the crate. kawi had to keep it to be used as evedence in the dozens of law suits against them claiming the bike was unstable and therefore caused accidents. really wanted to shove it in the back of my van. it would probably be worth about $50k today. comes with the orig crate!

great video that guy is nuts i'd definitely give him a job. ours was a little slower and a bit more crude. we had the worlds first independent suspension 4 wheel progressive steering 4 wheeler. kinda sucked at mediun speeds, just wanted to tip over in the turns and wandered all over. i'm sure irs would not work well on a 3 wheeler for similar reasons. the faster you go the wobblier it would get.

[just ben]

i don't think you would get anywhere but since this the one and only option left to get a free or discounted unit i really don't understand why one wouldn't attempt it. just doesn't make sense does it? better just to sit around and do nithing but complain i guess.

It's an issue you come to expect when you own a tecate. sorry for being a skeptic but we have seen some pretty wild claims on here

[barnett468]

It's an issue you come to expect when you own a tecate. sorry for being a skeptic but we have seen some pretty wild claims on here

hello just ben

thank you very much for the explanation and apology. it is greatfully accepted. a lot of people would not have done that. don't know why anyone would come here just to mess with people but guess there's always someone. i guess you probably figured out by my racing posts and others that this stuff is just too wild to make up. you have not heard nothin yet, if you called jimmy donnie or danny they would have just laughed. i was a little off the hook in those days. drinkin beer, chasin chicks, playin rock and roll, racin bikes and workin at kawi with no boss. horrible life, i have been very fortunate and am very greatfull for everything i was able to do.

re ignition yeah as i mentioned the ignitions were not my concern other than the static timing i couldn't touch them and kawi did farm out parts like that to hitachi and other suppliers occasionally and there would be no reason for me to know who made them.

PS - The crazy stuff you might have heard from other pro racers is probably greatly UNDERSTATED, due to potential legal repercussions etc. lol. every rental car story is much worse than described. brad lackey told us some insane stuff and he APPEARS to be a very laid back quiet hippie when you meet him. WRONG, WRONG WRONG. He.s very naughty.

i'll gladly answer any thing i can for you now if you have further questions

thanks again

[barnett468]

Welcome to the site.Did you ever have the Factory racers test for you. Like Jimmy White,Steve Mendenhall,Jackie Meadows,Chris White or Mickey Dunlap. What race # did you run. How well did the racer like the drum brake on the front of the 84 Tecate. Did they change it with a disc setup or was it okay with them. What where your thoughts on the sleeved down 200 Tecates.How old are you now . Im 49 and planning on racing at Pine Lake (Ashtabula ) this year.Did you ever meet Mr. Smijui.

hello atc300r thanks for the question

i had jimmy test something once or twice. too old to remember my race number it would have either 24 or some single digit at local races hoping to intimidate someone by making them think i was better than i was. a couple people at the races new i was from kawi r and d then but fortunately no one hounded me for info or free parts etc. some people thought i had secret works parts on it but it was a box stocker with just a harry klemm top end and pipe, wheel spacers and a used set of jimmy's tires and rims. jimmy used a bassani pipe.

disc - there was no disc set up to change too. the drum didn't bother anyone. of course the 86 disc was much better. it's not like motocross where one needs to stand on the front brake to turn. it was used much less.

200 CC KIT - i don't understand the question i addressed the engine failures in a post above. Did i like the idea, yeah i thought it was cool. the more variants the better. it's liked sleeved down 125 mxer's in motocross. they're a blast.

i'm a little older than that.

mr smijui - i met dozens of japanese here and when they sent me to japan for the 86 tecate project [another nightmare story]. i don't remember them all. i did meet all the top atv engineers and got drunk and sang karaoki with the man in charge of kawi. great story too. Who is he?