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Thread: Putting things in places they ought not to be (250R Hybrid Motor build)

  1. #61
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    2 of my favorite engines working together, love it!

    That Rotax top look like a behemoth sitting on the R bottom end. Nice work Sir!

    I can't wait to see/hear this thing run.
    Trikes:
    '85 ATC 350R
    '85 ATC 250R
    '86 ATC 350X
    '85 ATC 350X
    '84 ATC 200ES Big Red
    '84 ATC 125M
    '85 ATC 110
    '85 ATC 70/110

    If you have bought from me or sold to me, please leave me feedback here>>> http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthr...+RIDE-RED+250r

  2. #62
    Billy Golightly's Avatar
    Billy Golightly is offline Always finding new and exciting ways to not give a hoot in hell Catch me if you can
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Camexican View Post
    Coming along real nice, looking forward to seeing a video of it running. Have you picked a carb for it yet?

    Being from Western Canada it sounds so weird to hear you say “Ski doo” We say it “skdo” No time to pronounce the “i” and that extra “o” and say both words separately, we've got to speak fast and get back to the Molsons before they freeze over eh.
    I have been told I do have a bit of a funny accent...

    I'll probably just run the regular 39mm pwk. If the thing ends up being too peaky in the upper RPM range for me I might neck it back down with a 35mm even.

  3. #63
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    any up dates? how's your project coming along

  4. #64
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    "when in doubt, get a bigger ." a Billy? hahaha sorry I saw that next to it in the video and I laughed.

    looking good man really, cannot wait to see the end results.
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  5. #65
    Billy Golightly's Avatar
    Billy Golightly is offline Always finding new and exciting ways to not give a hoot in hell Catch me if you can
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    My center cases are having some issues on their mating surfaces in the crank case. Pre-existing because they were an unmatched set, or warped from welding, not sure. Dad seems to think is isn't bad enough to worry about and could be solved with some Caterpillar Form-A-Gasket (which I have used and is awesome stuff, no doubt). I'm in the process of determining which half it is that is off the most (flat surface and feeler gauge, jut haven't gotten to stop and do it yet). As well as determining a course of action to correct it. If its not terribly bad, I might just try and continue with the leak down procedure with things as they are. If it seems bad, I'll probably build it up with weld and surface it out. Again, when I started this project, I didn't really expect to get this far without any major screw ups, so I started on cases that were effectively junk from the get go, so now I have to fix other problems with them too

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Golightly View Post
    I have been told I do have a bit of a funny accent...

    I'll probably just run the regular 39mm pwk. If the thing ends up being too peaky in the upper RPM range for me I might neck it back down with a 35mm even.
    It'll want at least the 39. She'll be a very hungry beast
    Please help those who cannot help themselves.

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  7. #67
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    Billy, You do have a mill correct? Tram it in and;

    Any way to get the halves in there from an opposing surface and see what the indicator says??
    All our government does is distract us while they steal from us, misspend our tax $ and ruin our country

  8. #68
    Billy Golightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtcrasher View Post
    Billy, You do have a mill correct? Tram it in and;

    Any way to get the halves in there from an opposing surface and see what the indicator says??
    Thats pretty much the direction I'm heading. I'm going to feeler gauge out the gaps later today hopefully so I know how much I'm off, and then I'll work on doing that next depending on what it shows. From my scientific procedure I used earlier this week (Bolting it together without a gasket and holding it up to a light) I'm assuming I'm about .005-.010 low in the one spot. I also have determine which case it is that is effected the most. I'm a little anxious about welding on that gasket surface...

    The stator side will be a little bit tricky because I have to block it up from that stator cover surface but I should be able to get it pretty close. The clutch side should be relatively easy, tram to table, clamp down from the interior away from the gasket surfaces (Like through a main bearing hole and transmision shaft area) use some setup blocks on the gasket edge and tram onto those also.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by atc007 View Post
    It'll want at least the 39. She'll be a very hungry beast
    It will be hungry.. The MXZ700 and 800's came with twin Mikuni 40mm carbs. However, they had more displacement with that bore due to a longer stroke than the R....

    Clutch engagement on those sleds was just shy of 4,000 rpm. And the way the whole drive system works, you are running 6-8000 rpm alot of the time. That being the case, I would suspect they are ported a bit more toward mid-top than a stock 250r was. So yes, I would think a 39mm or bigger would be ideal.
    Trikes:
    '85 ATC 350R
    '85 ATC 250R
    '86 ATC 350X
    '85 ATC 350X
    '84 ATC 200ES Big Red
    '84 ATC 125M
    '85 ATC 110
    '85 ATC 70/110

    If you have bought from me or sold to me, please leave me feedback here>>> http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthr...+RIDE-RED+250r

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIDE-RED 250r View Post
    It will be hungry.. The MXZ700 and 800's came with twin Mikuni 40mm carbs. However, they had more displacement with that bore due to a longer stroke than the R....
    My friends MXZ500 has factory twin Mikuni 40mm carbs...I rebuilt them.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by slashfan7964 View Post
    My friends MXZ500 has factory twin Mikuni 40mm carbs...I rebuilt them.
    Never owned or put a wrench to the 500, only ever had 7 and 800's. Didn't want to say since I didn't know for sure.
    Trikes:
    '85 ATC 350R
    '85 ATC 250R
    '86 ATC 350X
    '85 ATC 350X
    '84 ATC 200ES Big Red
    '84 ATC 125M
    '85 ATC 110
    '85 ATC 70/110

    If you have bought from me or sold to me, please leave me feedback here>>> http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthr...+RIDE-RED+250r

  12. #72
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    Yeah, I believe they are the exact same setup minus the displacement, at least to my knowledge. I've been doing a lot of work to it lately...it was a mess when I got ahold of it.

  13. #73
    Billy Golightly's Avatar
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    Update;

    I think I got my cases suitably surfaced and smoothed out. I ended up after some extensive checking with a feeler gauge found I had up to a .018 gap in the cases right in the crank case area. Upon closer inspection, I've found that atleast one of these cases looked like it had suffered a pretty catastrophic crank disconnect and failure. The gasket edge was actually bent outwards, and wasn't sitting totally flat with its counter part. Plus there was a spot I knew that had a crack in it. Remember, these were junk cases when I started and I knew that

    I've preached this in the past, but it is absolutely imperative that a motor have a good seal in the crankcase, cylinder, head, exhaust,intake, etc. If you can't pass a leak down test you are GIVING away HP and you will endlessly chase your tail for fueling and electrical issues when it is infact an airleak of some sort. I have a stock 250R motor with bolt ons only that embarrassed quite a few "built" 250Rs. But I had it where it would hold 12psi over night. So I am making sure that I am able to get the best performance possible out of this build while everything is apart and loose. If it doesn't run right, I want to eliminate as many variables as possible obviously.

    I ended up surfacing each side of the cases on some sand paper taped to a piece of glass and found where my bad spots were. I just went over the whole gasket surface with a black magic marker and then sanded till it was gone pretty much everywhere else, to determine my spots.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    As you can see in the pictures, the edge just wasnt sitting flat. I ended up working on this a bit more and got it really close, and then I ended up welding and building up 2 other areas (No finished picture yet, I'll get some). Working on these case edges had intimidated me a lot, but ended up being easier than I had thought it was. Rules being: Cleanliness is godliness on aluminum, pre-heat the entire work piece with a torch, and use appropriate sized filler rod. I ended up dressing these areas back out with a couple different stages of filing and my cases now seal within .003 without a gasket when bolted together Cometic center case gasket is .020 thick.


    As they sit right now, I've assembled the bottom end with the crank, main bearings, and seals. Installed the topend with the base gaskets, spacer plate, the head with its o-rings. Intake, and exhaust flange both installed. The only things I need is a rubber intake boot, a couple 5mm odd ball sized bolts for the intake, and the dang right side crank seal collar which is actually discontinued from Honda. When I get that put together I'll get to leakdown test the whole she-bang finally.

  14. #74
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    Billy, what do you need? Button head 5mm allen?

    I have a ton of SS hardware and could mail you down what you need.....
    All our government does is distract us while they steal from us, misspend our tax $ and ruin our country

  15. #75
    Billy Golightly's Avatar
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    Yes that's it. I gotta check my length but they need to be fairly long because of the intake and Reed cage thicknesses. That'd be qwesome, I'll check out the lengths and let you know

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