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Thread: ES-SX-350X Carb rebuild Tutoral

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Choctaw, OK
    --
    2,755
    Alright guys, pressing on. I purchased four carbs off Ebay. All four were sold as parts carbs and I guess I was expecting more but once I received them I understood why they were being sold as parts carbs. The first one came from Colorado. It had some corrosion issues but mainly the choke valve was fused in the hole. I soaked it with some Silicone lube for a while and it came right out. When I went to the disassembly I realized the butterfly shaft didn't want to move. I told you that I typically don't take the butterfly shaft or the slide actuator arm out but in this case I had no choice if I wanted to save this carb. When removing these assemblies, the butterfly is the first thing to remove but even it was fused in the shaft and I destroyed it getting it out. I was able to get these assemblies out and clean up the two shafts to where they rotated as they are supposed to BUT now I didn't have a butterfly to put back in from an ES but I did have a butterfly from an SX. I went ahead and rebuilt the carb with the SX configuration and thought I would use one of the others for the reassembly demonstration.... HA!!!!!!!! I'll get to those in the next post. Here is the Colorado carb before and after. I'm hoping it will run just fine but we'll see tomorrow.

    In the pictures you will see the difference between the ES and SX butterfly. This is the one and only difference between the ES and SX carbs. The hole and the metal treatment. I really don't know what that hole does. Do you? They are both made of aluminum and are exactly the same shape and dimension.

    I also inserted a pic of the main nozzle in post #15. One thing I will say about the main nozzle. If your trike won't run right unless the choke is on, this is more than likely the culprip. A clogged up main nozzle. I run this through the bead blaster along with the needle jet holder. Over time these two parts will build a layer of film from fuel. The holes drilled in these two parts will actually grow smaller albeit not by much but it's enough to effect the way the carb works. Bead blasting ensures all the film is removed restoring these two parts back to their original condition. I'm convinced this is a large part of the problem with these carbs. When rebuilding these carbs, be sure these parts are as clean as you can possibly get them. The needle jet comes in the rebuild kit. Be sure you replace that every time as they are matched to the new needle. This is very important!!!!!!
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  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Choctaw, OK
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    2,755
    Moving on. After the carb has been disassembled, I soak it in Heptane. I get this as a waste product from work but not everybody has Heptane sitting around so, go to the drug store and but some big bottles of rubbing alcohol and soak the carb in that. Get a container big enough to pour enough rubbing alcohol to completely submerge the carb. I also soak the bowl and all the other parts I'm going to reuse. The key is clean clean clean. Even if you aren't going to bead blast your carb, do this anyway. Get your carb as clean as you can. For me, this step is to ensure there is no oily residue present to attract and hold glass bead. Soak the carb overnight and blow it out thoroughly with compressed air. Carb cleaner can also be used. Be sure to stick the straw in every single hole in the carb and shoot that stuff through. Every hole should blow through to somewhere else. If a hole doesn't blow through, you have an obstruction and it will need to be worked until it does blow through.
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  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Choctaw, OK
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    2,755
    Wonderboy asked me if I would outline what I do to prep the carb for bead blasting so here are illustrations of what I do. I stuff the venturi and slide hole with blue paper towel. I also stuff the float valve hole, choke valve hole, and pilot screw hole with wads of paper towel. This is to protect the seats from being hit directly with the glass bead. No matter how hard you try, glass bead is going to find its way in to the carb so don't worry too much about it.

    Now, I'm going to say in big bold letters here.... DO NOT BLAST YOUR CARB IN THIS MANNER WITH SAND!!!! DO NOT USE SAND. The properties of sand are completely different than glass bead. Sand has irregular edges, is very aggressive, and hard to control. Glass bead on the other hand is round balls of glass, the size is very consistent, and easy to control. DO NOT USE HARBOR FREIGHT GLASS BEAD!!! that stuff is junk. Its full of debris, and it has LEAD in it. Find a local dealer that sells US made glass bead. I found a #12 glass bead work great in these small syphon type cabinets. I have an inexpensive benchtop blast cabinet. I removed the cheap ass florescent light that came in it and installed 4 120v under cabinet puck lights. I put a regulator on it with a water separator and have a small vacuum plumbed in to it. I bought an assortment of inexpensive wire baskets from Office Max to put parts in to. This setup works very well. I have the pressure set at 60psi. Anything over that is just destroying the glass bead faster with no added benefit. I dump about 80lbs of glass in it as you can see. I run my rubber parts through it. It takes 25 years+ of dirt and grime off and makes the rubber parts look almost new. Far better than a toothbrush and Dawn dish soap.
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  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Choctaw, OK
    --
    2,755
    Going back to the parts carbs I bought. I bought four carbs but one of them was a TRX250 carb leaving two 85 ES carbs. One I rebuilt last night came from Colorado and the others came from Canada. One of them had a broken screw on the top cap, butterfly shaft was frozen, and the choke valve was totally fused in the hole. The other had corrosion, the slide wouldn't move, and the idle adjustment bolt wouldn't turn. Both of them I had to take out the butterfly shafts and slide actuator shafts. I got broken idle bolt out with a little heat but that damn choke valve was another story. I soaked it, heated it and finally drilled it. It took me about two solid hours on just the choke valve alone. The simple broken screw on the top cap on the first one turned out to be a major fiasco. I drilled it and stuck my easy out in it. Hit it with some heat and of course the easy out snapped off. In the end I managed to drill a hole through but it was slightly off center. If that carb works, I'll leave it in my SX and sell the one that came out of my SX. If it don't work, it will get stripped for parts. I already have a guy on the hook for the Colorado carb providing it works so we'll see how the other two work once I get them reassembled. More to come on those. That's it for tonight. I'll get the butterfly and slide actuators put back in both tonight and pick back up tomorrow night with the assembly on the two Canada ES carbs.
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    Last edited by Flyingw; 10-09-2013 at 01:01 PM.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Sarnia, Ontario, Canada
    --
    3,415

    Cool

    Masterfully done Jim, here I was thinking "he's crazy showing how it's done..he's handing away the keys to FlyingW bus"

    But as I see the process and level of attention to detail I see you haven't anything to fear..you'll still get just as much work.

    Many like me will look at that and say 'screw it, I'll send it to Jim!!'

    Of the 10 people who attempt to draw from your instruction, 8 will botch their carbs because they lack the skilled hands and experience you have!

    I realize you're not giving people the 411 to take money from your pocket..you're showing everyone the incredible detail put into a FlyingW carb. Smart business!!

    Or did I read it wrong and you really trying to reduce your workload by showing everyone how to DIY? If so I think it backfired!!
    Current toys..
    1986 Honda 350X..trail bomb!
    1985 Honda 250SX..my main mudder
    1985 Honda 250ES..Back in Black Trike
    Current non-trike toys:
    1990 Honda TRX300FW
    1995 Seadoo GTX
    1998 Polaris Indy Lite 340(Nearly new looking)
    1998 Polaris Touring 500
    1998 Club Car (electric)

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Choctaw, OK
    --
    2,755
    Thanks Doug, I appreciate your words very much. I started this not to make money by any means. If I did, these carbs would be 400.00 carbs. At that price I'd have a bunch of rebuilt carbs sitting on my shelf. Money is tight for everyone these days even with me but there is also value for me having something to do. I started rebuilding these carbs because so many guys were having problems with their carbs and I had several sitting in my attic not doing anybody any good so I pulled them and got them rebuilt and its blossomed from there and truthfully, I did it in large part because I was bored. I'm not one to just sit around with nothing to do. I have to be engaged with something or I get cabin fever real easy especially in the Winter months. I know most guys are like me and would rather do the work their selves. This is why I do my own powder coating. I have a DIY Zinc plating kit I use on onzie twozie items, and one of these days I'll do a tutorial on rebuilding the ES/SX differentials although the lack of available special tools has kept me from doing this. I have the tools but average Joe trike owner doesn't so I'm on the fence about that tutorial. This tutorial pretty much applies to any of these 3wheeler carbs. The part arrangements vary but the basics are all the same. I am more than happy to do these for our guys and if the day comes that nobody needs my services then I'll move on to something else to occupy my time. Either way, I like to be useful and engaged. I'll press on with the assembly later tonight.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    New London, Wisconsin
    --
    119
    I've read thru your entire post, all I can say is well done. Funny I logged on during lunch (at work too) to just see whats all involved re-doing a '85 250SX carb the correct way. My saturday is going to involve taking apart a 250SX carb for a friend. Have the 185/200X stuff down pat but these not so much. But this is going to work out perfect have a step by step to follow. And re-assemble posts to follow. Thanks for sharing


    Brian

    my wheelers:
    1981 Honda 200 5 wheeler
    1982 Honda 200 Hondapotomus
    1982 Honda 185S
    1982 Honda 250R
    1984 Honda 200S
    1985 Honda 200S
    1985 Honda 200X

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Choctaw, OK
    --
    2,755
    I'm glad people are finding this information useful. I'll get back to the assembly hopefully tonight.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Choctaw, OK
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    2,755
    Assembly!!!!!! Before I get in to the assembly, there is one product I'm going to strongly advise all of you DIY trike mechanics to add to your chemical inventory. Its trade name is Petrolatum. Petrolatum is a brownish paste and is sold as a corrosion preventative grease but it also conditions and lubricates rubber parts. Not only do I use this stuff in the carb assembly but I use it for many other assemblies like assembling the brake calipers, brake master cylinders, differential assembly, engine assembly, and I even lube my rim beads when I mount tires. Petrolatum conditions rubber and stays in the rubber although it is dissolved by fuel and solvents but not by other oils and greases. Anything rubber like orings and orings will get noting but benefit from Petrolatum. Remember I said I run my rubber parts through my bead blaster? After the rubber parts come out of the bead blaster, I take a toothbrush with Petrolatum on it and scrub the Petrolatum in to the parts. I then take a rag and rub it in to the part and rub the excess off making the part look like new. Anybody in the aviation mechanics industry knows what Petrolatum is and what it does but most guys don't. I am here to tell you, it is GOLD when working on these old trikes. Its a little spendy but there is nothing that is useful than Petrolatum. Its made by several manufactures but What I have is made by Castrol Industrial under the name Braycote 236 (VV-P-236A). As I said, I use this stuff on so many things like household plumbing and working on my vehicles. Anything rubber!!!!!! Petrolatum is also the base product in some antibiotic ointments like Neosproin.

    Braycote 236 MSDS
    http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/42C64CA08BC03FD780257796002F8753/$File/457048_XI_en.pdf
    http://site.skygeek.com/MSDS/braycot...latum-1-lb.pdf

    Source of Supply
    http://www.skygeek.com/braycote-236-petrolatum.html

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Castrol-Bray...ad8993&vxp=mtr

    http://www.mil-specproducts.com/Prod...TUM,-TECHNICAL
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  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Choctaw, OK
    --
    2,755
    The first part I always start with is the bowl. I lay Petrolatum in to the groove for the bowl seal. This is mainly to hold the seal in place when I set the bowl on the body to form a good seal. When the carb gets its first fuel, the residue Petrolatum will be dissolved and the bowl seal will swell making a good tight seal so not to worry. I then place the oring on the drain screw and wipe some Petrolatum on the oring and screw threads and install the drain screw. The last thing to install on the bowl is the oring on the rim of the bowl and it too gets lubricated with Petrolatum. Remember, this seal is not included in the 86 kits so you will have to reuse your old seal. Set the bowl aside.

    In the absence of Petrolatum, Vaseline can be used or even Neosporin ointment. Remember the purpose here is to hold the bowl seal in place and to lubricate the two orings.

    I want to also mention again here that if in the future you have to take the bowl off the carb, the bowl seal will be larger than the groove. It's supposed to do this. Wash the seal off with rubbing alcohol and hang the seal in an oven at about 150 - 200deg for about 10 minutes. Let it cool. It will shrink back to its original size. Trust me, it does.
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  11. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Choctaw, OK
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    2,755
    The next step is to assemble the bottom of the carb. Main nozzle, primary jet, startup jet, slow jet, needle jet, main jet holder, main jet, float valve, float, float pin, and baffle. I start with the needle jet.

    If you look at the needle jet, you will see a flat end and a cupped end. THE CUPPED END ALWAYS GOES FIRST. Drop the needle jet in the hole cupped end first.

    Drop the main jet holder in the hole. You may have to wiggle it around to get the needle jet to start in to the hole but when the main jet holder threads, its aligned so screw in the main jet holder and tighten it up. A little more than snug is all that's required.

    Drop the slow jet in the hole and tighten it up. (Be sure it is screwed in all the way)

    Install the startup jet. Tap it with a small or something similar. (on 86 carbs, screw the jet in to the side of the jet stack)

    Drop the main nozzle in the hole small end in first then install the primary jet and tighten it up

    Set the float valve on the float and install the float and float pin.

    Install the baffle

    Set the bowl on the carb and install the four 4x14 screws. Don't forget to set the vent tube holder under the back left screw. Tighten the screws a little at a time using a cross pattern. Don't over tighten these screws. The illustrations will be spread between this post and the next post.
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    Last edited by Flyingw; 10-12-2013 at 01:23 AM.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Choctaw, OK
    --
    2,755
    Second set
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  13. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Choctaw, OK
    --
    2,755
    The last part of the bottom of the bowl is the pilot screw. Be sure you have the assembly order right. Screw, spring, flat washer, oring. Assemble the pilot screw and put a little lube on the oring. Install the oring screwing it all the way in until it stops then back it out 2 turns for 85 and 1 1/4 turns for 86/87 carbs.

    NOTE: The pilot screw does not get an oring on the head.
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  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Choctaw, OK
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    2,755
    The next assembly is the slide needle, slide, actuator arm, and top cap.

    Per factory settings, set the C clip on the needle in the second groove and drop the needle in to the slide.

    Drop the slide in to the carb hole. Ensure the slide moves freely up and down. No binding. No lube of any kind goes on the slide. The slide has a Teflon coating.

    Set the arm set on the on the actuator arm pin and lower the arm set down inside of the slide aligning the holes. The flat side of the arm set aligns with the middle of the slide.

    Using a #1 Phillips, install the two 3x6 pan screws locking the arm set to the slide. (Trick... I put a dab of Petrolatum on the end of the Phillips to hold the 3x6 screw to the end of the screwdriver otherwise you'll go out of your mind trying to install those small screws without dropping them off of the Phillips)

    Install the 4x13 pan head screw with the lock washer in to the actuator arm locking the actuator arm to the arm set.

    Like the bowl gasket groove, I fill the top cap seal groove with petrolatum, install the seal and top cap and secure with the 3 4x8 pan head screws
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  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Choctaw, OK
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    2,755
    Last few pics of the carb top.
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