1987 250R/350X - Update Dec 2014: 1987 250R-H Parts Catalog Located *Pics!*

[slashfan7964]

I just got off the phone with a Honda rep, and recorded it btw, who said his cut off was 1986 but parts for '87s may have gotten out at some point very early in the production runs before complete trikes were actually put together to be shipped off. No complete trikes were ever actually built or sold, so he couldn't give me any production numbers when he dug into them. He said most of the guys who would know this information are now retired. He also gave me numbers for Honda Canada and Honda Japan to see if they could dig up any information on them when I asked if they may have been sold overseas or in other countries. I'll try and give them a call soon.


So no. The 1987 250R or 350X do NOT exist [This was later confirmed to be false to an extent), but pre production parts got out and/or were sold off early in the production runs, which would explain miscellaneous parts such as the random seat, cylinder heat and plastics but no full trike. I'll have the video uploading soon. This is for the US.


In Canada, they were sold in extremely low numbers and were confirmed to exist. I have that recorded as well.

_____________________________

EDIT:

After some time, the search continues. Credible evidence will hear on out be posted in this thread.

[dougspcs]

Of course you mean 'Busted a Myth"..those are hateful words you speak!!!

Killing a believers dream like that, you tell 5 years old there is no Easter Bunny or Santa too??

You're just cruel!!!

[slashfan7964]

I hate to be that guy...I really do. I wanted it to be true soooooo bad. And I really wanted to find out so I started digging. But no, the said some NOS parts may have been sold off in the pre production stages but the trikes themselves were never fully built and sold. He said any information he had access to would be for US production so I may have more luck with Canada or Japan but otherwise they were never built. Like I said, I'm going to get ahold of Honda Canada and probably Honda Japan.

[dougspcs]

I hate to be that guy...I really do. I wanted it to be true soooooo bad. But no, the said some NOS parts may have been sold off in the pre production stages but the trikes themselves were never fully built and sold. He said any information he had access to would be for US production so I may have more luck with Canada or Japan but otherwise they were never built. Like I said, I'm going to get ahold of Honda Canada and probably Honda Japan.

Did he have any explanation why many of the other models like the 87 250ES/250SX/125M/200X (others??) made it to the sales floor but not those particular models.??

[slashfan7964]

I didn't ask about them in particular, but I did bring up that '87 200X's are around having seen one myself, along with making note of several others in the brochure that people have seen and own. The only thing I can think of was that those new models were in pre development stages a tad longer (all new technology supposedly), and therefore took longer to put into production. By that point, the trike ban was signed and production halted just before these new trikes were completely assembled leaving Honda to sell off NOS '87 parts without a complete trike. He did mention that as well.


I'm about to get on the phone with Honda Canada to see if they say otherwise. As of right now, Honda USA is saying they weren't totally finished.


EDIT:


I'm on the phone with Honda Canada...the guy has no idea what I'm talking about lol. Hes looking into seeing if it actually existed and their records though, so hope isn't lost.

[slashfan7964]

Holy hell i have confirmation of sub 100 fully running models produced and sold in canada!!!!!!!!!!


THIS IS A BIG DEAL!!!!!


He said production was cut off extremely early but they were built and sold!! He was surprised when I told him you all have been looking for them for 15 years!!! He said they were produced but they have no real paper work and to find any information they would need a VIN number!!! He didn't have much information on them other than they were built and sold in extremely low numbers due to production being cut off. I basically fell into the same issue as the US....all the old timers are gone....except one, and he confirmed it. He couldn't confirm where it was actually built however, he said they may have been built at plants here in the states or at Canada, or built in the states and imported into Canada, and the only way to know was with a VIN, and the only way to get info on it was with a VIN, but they were indeed produced!!!!!!!!!!!


Now the question is.....do you want the US one that tells you nothing really other than they were sold in the US, or the Canada one where they comfirmed they exist? Both videos are about 20 minutes long and will take forever to upload to YouTube....

[dougspcs]

Good research..keep it coming.

Even if the end results aren't what we want to hear, if the source is solid it settles years of debate.

Let's see those videos!!!

[slashfan7964]

I have the big confirmation video converting over to a smaller file so it doesn't take so long to upload to YouTube. I can confirm the source is valid. I made it very clear to show the url in my browser, along with the page with the phone number. I showed me actually enter the number into the phone and calling and then putting it on speaker. I had to go through to process of option 1, 2, and 3 both videos. In the first video, you hear him give me the number for Honda Canada. I then do the same procedure in the second video, in which he confirms they were produced. You clearly hear a "Yes" when asked. Honestly, I can't believe it was that easy. Why hasn't anyone else done it all these years?


Also, this is the URL in which I got the Honda USA phone number.


http://powersports.honda.com/contact.aspx



This is a picture of my cell phones recent calls. As you can see, the top and bottom numbers are valid.



This is the sheet of paper I wrote stuff down on as I was talking to them.





I will upload the first video if there is enough demand but it doesn't really tell you much. In case I don't feel like uploading it, here's a link to the Contact Us page for Honda Canada. You can compare the numbers. the one in my phone is valid and you see me entering it and getting ahold of the guy.

http://www.honda.ca/contact_us

[oscarmayer]

if you follow Honda's usual lines, when it comes to their top models back then every 2-3 years they redid things. think about that for a moment. 82-84 250r, 85-86 250r, 87 probably had a design change maybe even planning with a 500 till the idiot news asshat who handed his 12 yr old a 200x in 86 lost his son caused the lies and descete of safety for the 3-wheelers. (yes I hate that guy)
so if they were planning on a model design change that would explain why no 87 models of the 350x or 250r made it out. it may have been moved to a 450-500x or a 350-500r.
i would have to say following history this is most likely the reason none of them made the trek to full sales here.
BTW that asshat also caused many rifts. ever wonder why we ever get the coolest models of a specific car such as the ford cosworth models? Because of his personal vendetta and refusal to accent he F-ed up as a parent and did not properly protect his child tried to blame someone else for his stupidity, all manufacturers now are weary of putting anything decent into the US for fear of retribution. the US district courts also were dead wrong in what they did. Never should they have interfere with this product. if people were worried then let the sales show it. don't let the government get involved. truth is we lived in a time where people felt it was OK to do whatever with disregard to safety and rules despite the possible repercussions. The biggest issue is that still exists today. people still refuse to accept responsibility for their actions or lack there of. until we learn to say "it was my own stupid fault" our country will continue to decline in value and continue to turn into turmoil. in my mind that was the shot heard around the world for the decline of our grate nation. our values ended that day in my mind. it was now legally ok to say it is someone Else's fault when i screwed yo and got hurt. never mind i have no experience, ride w/o any type of safety gear in flip-flops and drunk as a skunk. Bad Honda Bad for putting together a machine w/o the intelligence to deny me usage when intoxicated or unsafe.

/end rant

sorry but it;s that type of is see every day even at work and it pisses me off. if you screw up. deal with it admit it and fix it..

[slashfan7964]

I agree it is BS. I wish us trike riders weren't penalized for that garage. But I'm 18, and this all happened before my time.

I agree about the model change thing. I mentioned something along those lines above when I said the may have been in development a bit longer than the rest, and production started late. Then production cut off, so quantities were extremely limited.



Anyways, the big confirmation video is uploading to YouTube as we speak. Sit tight. About halfway through he put me on hold so you'll have to skip over like 3 minutes. I left it in on purpose so you know the call was obviously legit.






Here's a little snipit word for word:


*On Hold*

Honda Tech: "Sir?"
Me: "Yes I'm here."
Honda Tech: "Yeah thanks for your patience."
Me: "Yeah no problem."
Honda Tech: "So....it may have been manufactured in Canada but because of the year of the bike I wouldn't be able to like, I wouldn't be able to have any like paperwork confirming that it was...where it was manufactured, only would I be able to do that if you have like a VIN of the particular bike. I could check in the system for that and probably find out where that was manufactured and sold."
Me: "So you're basically saying, you don't have any documentation on it, you're just saying that the only way you'd be able to find anything out is if I supplied a VIN number correct?"
Honda Tech: " That's right, yeah."
Me: "Hmm. See that's the dilemma *laughs*....We're trying to find out if that bike was actually produced...I don't know if anybody actually owns one *laughs*"
Honda Tech: "It was produced but for me to"
Me: "Oh, it was, it was!?"
Honda Tech: "Yeah, that's what I'm saying, it was produced but to find any information on it I would need a VIN number"
Me: "Oh ok..oh ok....So um you're saying, alright so um it was a full bike that was produced and it was sold in Canada correct?"
Honda Tech: "That's correct."
Me: "Ok, um did you happen to find any production numbers on it to give us an idea of it's rarity or...because its"
Honda Tech: "That's what I'm saying sir with like the age of this, this bike, to find out any information like there's no one here that's been working here that long."
Me: "Oh ok."
Honda Tech: "Paperwork for that long is mostly likely gone. I was just speaking with probably one of the older; the longest service rep here..."
Me: "Mhmm"
Honda Tech: "...and he's like he doesn't even know where to start looking for that information. The best thing to find that information would be a VIN. We'd be able to kinda pull it up and kinda track it that way once we find specifically where it was manufactured in the system...sorry not in the system in like Canada or America and then..."
Me: "Mhmm"
Honda Tech: "...what have you. Because it could have been, it could have been manufactured in the US and imported into Canada like for a couple customers you know what I mean so"




Rest will be in the video

That's word for word.

[slashfan7964]

VIDEO LIVE!!!

Confirmation starts at 12 minutes.

[kzr800]

Awesome research....keep digging, this is getting good.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I would ad this small bit of my hunch on the topic of possible new model R's and X's.

The 250r lived on 3 more years in the TRX platform. 2 reasons I seriously doubt bigger mills were in the works for the 250r in the near future at that point.

#1: The R's were made for the racing circuit, 250cc was the main event and if my limited understanding of the racing scene back in those days is correct, they had a displacement limit of something like 265cc. (any racers from back in the day please feel free to correct me if my inference is wrong)

#2: If they were at the point of releasing ATC 250r's with larger mills for '87, one would assume we would have seen those mills in the TRX.

As far as the 350x... Again, I would assume we would have seen bigger mills show up in the Honda sport quad line-up if they were on the verge of releasing those new models in the ATC. In fact, we didn't see a performance thumper larger than the old 350x till 1998 with the release of the 400ex.

Seems as though there was a witch-hunt against performance oriented models almost as intense as the witch-hunt against the trikes.. Despite the racing still going on, the TRX250r, Quadracers and Tecate-4 all bit the dust. Yamaha got out of the 250 2-stroke class all together when they quit with the Tri-Z. It was as if they gave up on ATV racing all together. Anyone else remember how BORING every ATV magazine was throughout most of the 1990's as far as new production sport/race ATV's? The racers were all still running R's and Quadracers on the tracks long after the demise of both.


This is just my opinion and in no way do I imply I have seen this in black and white or otherwise.

[atc007]

That is some good work Slash. If you're still in school, you get a ,,A + .. I'll end there

[Ghostv2]

Well this has been so far that i have seen the best effort to digging up some information since i have been here. So great work slashfan, props to you.
Now i just plan on sitting back and watching the outcome. Now all of this was before my time but what RIDE-RED-250r says is what makes the most sense here.

Cant you just make up a VIN # and see if something turns up? We know what 85 numbers were, what 86 250r numbers were, cant you just make an educated guess as to what an early production 87 250r number would be?

This is taken from http://www.3wheelerworld.com/content...onda-250R-350X Cant you do something with this? Check out all the other numbers, maybe he can look something up.
"And then, we have this little gem in the rough thanks to forum member Jesse (hrc200x on the forum). For 10 points, can anyone establish whats wrong with this picture? Anybody? Bueller? Nope? So here is the scoop. Like the product codes I mentioned above, all the 3rd generation 250Rs start with TB06E as part of the serial number for the engine. You can clearly see the letters casted into the case above the stamped/riveted portion. The only thing "wrong" with this picture is the fact that the 85-86 ATC250R's did not start with 800~ on the stamped plate. They started with 240~ (1985) and 250~ (1986). Your saying "Well, that's just a TRX250R case then". Not so fast, because the TRX250R's have a different casting in their cases. They have TE12E ('86-'87), and TE06E ('88-'89). Here's the best part though, according to the Honda Motorcycle Identification Guide, that I referenced above, the serial # for 1987 year model TRX250R would be TE12E-800~. Did you catch that? That number on the case pictured above has the first half of an ATC vin (TB06E) and the last half of an '87 model TRX vin (800~). Obviously, we do not have a printed guide to reference 1987 year model ATC250R numbers with, but that is an extremely logical way for one to be formatted. You can full size the picture and check it out for yourself, but Jesse tells me the VIN reads: TBO6E-8006250"



*On the side not, imagine if you go to Japan and a girl tells you her number and walks away, you are SCREWED, thats 14 digits. I cant even remember my familys birthdays let alone that.