An uninteresting 200x thread

[rg97]

If that circlip let go on the old top end, it's floating around in the bottom end somewhere. Have you checked/replaced the oil?

[jays375]

Check your clearance on the piston and ring gap.If within spec you should be good to go.Just consider what you will lose with a hone.

[barnett468]

Hello redsox;

I've searched the site, and there is an abundance of info on the 200x. So, perhaps the questions that arise may have been asked an answered. Oh well. If it upsets you, move on the to next thread. Lots of drama on here lately…

I think that since your post at least appears to be in the correct forum there shouldn’t be any problems, lol.


Ok, first I want to say that I think you are hilarious in a good way. I love your post, your questions and how it is worded/phrased. It’s hard to search through 100’s of posts to find answers unless you type in CDI, in which case you will ALWAYS find KBONLY telling the op to buy a $5.00 Chinese one off Ebay, which in fact actually work just fine, lol.


Some of the following has already been mentioned by others.


PISTON - Ok, in my experience, if cost is a factor the Wiseco or Shindy pistons are likely the least expensive. They are both XLNT pistons. The Shindy is Japanese made and the Wiseco is a forged piston that is US made. Since you are NOT putting 20,000, miles a year on it they are fine to use.

COMPRESSION – If you are NOT opposed to running at least 93 octane gas, AND you want a LITTLE more performance, I recommend getting a piston that increases your compression to around 10.25.

This is mildly beneficial on an engine with a stock cam but it is strongly suggested on an engine with a cam that is “bigger” than stock. This is because, in general, the bigger the cam, the more it lowers the compression. This is due to the increased cam lobe overlap and/or later intake valve closing times “bigger” cams typically have. Since your cam size is unknown AND therefore may be “bigger” than stock, increasing the compression is a bit of insurance against your bike running like a P I G in the lower rpms due to stock compression combined with a “huge” cam.

If the outdoor temps are typically around 80 degrees and above where you ride, you might need slightly higher octane than 93 it you run higher compression. E85 corn gas = around 104. Simply listen carefully for a slight pinging sound upon acceleration. If you hear it, you need higher octane gas and/or stiffer springs on your ignition advance unit.


Shindy stock 9.6 compression. Up to 1.25 mm over. Open the link then click the small blue box on the right side that says search distributors to see where to buy it. Try ebay also.

http://shindypro.com/piston_kits.html


Wiseco. 10.25 compression, up to 2.0 mm over.

http://www.wiseco.com/ProductSearch.aspx


HARD STARTING/IGNITION ADVANCE – Your ignition should not advance while you are kicking it or below around 1400 rpm. If you encounter hard starting again, with the engine COLD, I would lay the plug on the head and kick it over. If the spark is yellow it is weak and most likely due to a weak stator assy or ignition coil. If you can get the bike running bit it does not start when it is warm/hot, I would check the spark color again. If it looks weaker when the engine is warm, the prob is definitely electrical.

IGNITION TIMING – You can check it with the plug out while kicking it over then again while it is idling. I put a mark on the flywheel F mark with white out to make it more visible and check it in a dimly lit area.

CAM IDENTIFICATION – I do not think the orig cam had any marks on it. The aftermarket ones might.

CAM INSPECTION - Look for moderate to heavy grooves. Replace if it has them.

ROCKER ARM INSPECTION - Look for flat spots. They surface shpuld be smooth wirth no low spots. Replace if they have moderate to excessive wear.

LEAKING VALVES – Since the head is off, I would spray some carb cleaner in one port at a time and see if it weeps out the valve. It should not.
You can also remove the valve springs and “feel” if the guides are excessively worn or if the guide/stem seals look damaged.

STROKER IDENTIFICATION – If your connecting rod looks like it has stock Honda markings on it, it is NOT a stroker. You can post a photo of the rod numbers and we can possibly decipher what you have.

It might be hard to measure rod length, however, if you install the cylinder, you can measure the actual stroke from the piston at the bottom and the piston at the top. Stock stroke is 57.8 mm.

BORE SIZE IDENTIFICATION – As suggested by rg97, have it measured for taper and out of round. As mentioned by atc007, your piston should have some numbers on the top like .25, .50, .75, 1.0 or .010, .020, .030, .040. These will indicate bore size greater than stock.

GASKET SET – I would not use a Tusk kit. It is likely Chinese. Below is just one of several negative reviews I found online regarding them. I would but original, Vesrah or Cometic.

“Today I was putting my engine back together with my spare Wiseco piston and my Tusk gasket kit.

Wow you get what you pay for with this kit! Complete POS.

It comes with a power valve gasket, which has glue on the back of it in the Yamaha OEM kit. But in this it doesn't so the gasket falls down when you put the cover on. And it ripped too.

Also inner o-ring was too small.

All in all a crappy kit and I won't be using it again, OEM all the way next time.”


VESRAH TOP END KIT $40.00

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-86-87-...#ht_314wt_1167


COMETIC KIT, NO O RINGS $26.00

http://www.ebay.com/itm/83-85-Honda-...#ht_1017wt_952


TUSK KIT WITH O RINGS $20.00. The low price alone should be a clear indicator of the quality one might expect.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tusk-Top-End...4#ht_715wt_930


CYLINDER AND HEAD SURFACING – You can check both these for flatness by doing the following:

1. Use a full size sheet of around 280 – 320 wet/dry sand paper.

2. Lay it on a granite counter top or tape it to a window next to the frame.

3. Clean the cylinder and head gasket surfaces then color them with black felt pen.

4. Spray water or WD40 on the paper.

5. Using light - moderate force, rotate each part approximately 4 turns on the paper.

6. Look at felt mark, continue sanding until it is completely gone.


BREAK IN - Ok, can't help myself, lol. I would use a NON synthetic oil designed for Motorcycles or ATV's that also contains high levels of ZDDP. Levels of between around 1100 and 1400 have been determined to be best. Valvoline Motorcycle and ATV oils meet these parameters and are typically available in autp parts stores. One does not "NEED" to use a motorcycle specific oil however they are a little bit better for the clutches.

Piston rings occasionally do not break in as quickly or even properly if synthetic oil is used for break in.

[fabiodriven]

I'm not super well versed with the 200's, but if I had it apart I'd work on the kicker and check out the timing chain. Then I'd do gaskets and seals and take a peek at the clutch.

[rg97]

Run 10W-30 Shell Rotella T oil and forget about it

[redsox]

If that circlip let go on the old top end, it's floating around in the bottom end somewhere. Have you checked/replaced the oil?

i have drained the oil. oddly, the remaining piece of the circlip was intact, still doing its damnedest to hold the wrist pin in place. i tried to match up the complete circlip with the broken one + the pieces i found. i have most, if not all of it accounted for. there is nothing larger than a nickel floating around down there.

[redsox]

I'm not super well versed with the 200's, but if I had it apart I'd work on the kicker and check out the timing chain. Then I'd do gaskets and seals and take a peek at the clutch.

i did the clutch already on this bottom end. there are no knocks or anything from the timing chain, and it looks pretty good. the kicker repair involves splitting the cases and i don't want to get that deep in this project.

[redsox]

When you go to put the new circlips in make sure to position them so that the openings are either up, or down, but not sideways as that is what can make them close up and get out of the groove.

thanks, solid info. i didnt realize that. i'll be sure to make sure.

[redsox]

BREAK IN - Ok, can't help myself, lol. I would use a NON synthetic oil designed for Motorcycles or ATV's that also contains high levels of ZDDP. Levels of between around 1100 and 1400 have been determined to be best. Valvoline Motorcycle and ATV oils meet these parameters and are typically available in autp parts stores. One does not "NEED" to use a motorcycle specific oil however they are a little bit better for the clutches.

Piston rings occasionally do not break in as quickly or even properly if synthetic oil is used for break in.

You ALMOST made it through without the oil jargon!!! haha. lots of good info. much appreciated.

[barnett468]

You ALMOST made it through without the oil jargon!!! haha. lots of good info. much appreciated.

You're very welcome. I...I...I just couldn't help myself. Yes, I guess I have an oil fetish. I guess there are much worse [or less fun] things one could have. Perhaps I should enroll in a 12 step "de-oiling fetish" program, lol. "Hello everyone...my name is Barnett, and I LOVE oil..."

METAL IN OIL - As far as metal bits in the engine go. I like to use magnetic drain plugs. Tri Again likes to stick Neodymium magnets on the drain bolts instead. The magnets keep most of the steel [from gears wearing etc] out of the oil.

ENGINE POWER - If it does have a huge cam and you prefer your power to come in a little sooner, you can change the gear ratio and/or buy a very cool adjustable cam sprocket/gear and advance the cam around 4 - 6 degrees. WEBCAMSHAFTS should have them. Rotate the engine to insure the valves do not hit the piston which they should not. Either way, if the clearances are bigger, I doubt they would be more than around .003" wider than stock in most cases .

VALVE/ROCKER CLEARANCE - If you have a cam that is bigger than stock, they often use clearances that are bigger than stock. If no one here know for sure I would contact web cams and ask for their suggestion. Either way, I doubt the clearance would be more than around .003" greater than stock.

http://www.webcamshafts.com/

[rg97]

If you're looking for reliability then stick with a stock cam.

[Mudduck]

yeah i met jeffatc250r 2 weeks ago spring time comes im in

[DohcBikes]

I don't think you mentioned changing cams for performance, but I do see a couple suggestions, here's my 2¢.....

The XR200 cam is a common, uninteresting upgrade for a 200x. Still available brand new and affordable, Honda quality parts.

The 9.6:1 OEM piston is a flattop piston, its a great choice for reliability AND power. In addition to the OE style Shindy's and Sudcos, don't forget to look at NOS Honda pistons and rings, once you have determined the condition and size of your bore.


And by the way to anyone considering Pro-x pistons, circlip failure is a common issue with these. Good piston, BAD circlips. If they have since addressed the issue I am not aware. Personally I will continue to steer clear for now.

[redsox]

ok, so i made some progress last night and today. a thousand interruptions today, so i could never quite get in the groove, but i muscled through and got some stuff done. i cleaned things up and got rid of the old gaskets. i also took the runner out of the other machine and started a tear down. got the cam out and have the head off. everything looks great. the jug and head look perfect. the piston is marked "965" on top. the jug is stuck on tight and i couldn't get it off. i had to pack it in for the night. I should be able to chip away during the week. again, to stay focused, i want to order the stuff i'll need. i'm gonna order a better gasket kit. has anyone dealt with G+H Supply on ebay? their prices are good. also, i'm questioning the "if it ain't broke" theorem. if everything is kosher in the top end thats going on, should i futz with it? hone, rings, piston, valve seals, etc. etc.? i know i probably should, but why? what does the "965" mean? is that stock? thats all for now. thanks for looking.

[DohcBikes]

Can we get more pictures?

I don't know what was causing your few issues on the running engine but i would measure ring gaps, piston, and cylinder at the minimum unless it was running perfect.

If you can't see the crosshatch its a good idea to hone it.

965 is on the top of my stock pistons as well, I don't know why. I will say this...its 9.6 piston, 65mm bore, maybe that has something to do with the way they numbered the part.