Who is the can am guru?! Odd starting (or lack of) on 08 outlander 400 efi...

[Thorpe]

So, my 09 400 efi, has developed a strange starting snafu... Once in awhile, when it's hot, it won't start... Starter spins the motor over, and it pops a little but will not run.

Let the bike sit in the garage for 2 months, untouched... (Had a big ankle surgery) So today I finally am feeling good enough to go pull it out of its slumber, and the battery is dead. So I pop the charger on, and start fixing the hand warmers and install new grips. After an hour, I hit the key, and it fires up, but stalls after a few seconds. Now it does it's "won't start when hot" trick and won't start again. For some odd reason, I grab the pull start, and it fires right up... So after testing my theory a few times, it will fire up while pulled, but not by the starter? I am confused. Anyone ever experience this?

Also, randomly, while it is running, if I rev the throttle, I get the check engine light around 3000 rpm for just a second or two. Little higher rev, no light, let it under 3000, no light...

Also, when it has acted up before, trying to diagnose the issue, when it wouldn't fire, I fogged some ether into the air box (trying to eliminate possible fuel related issue) and it still wouldn't fire...

[coolpool]

Sounds like same type of issue that sometimes haunts the 200 series of Honda's. Kbonly had a theory about one of the ignition components being slow to function which is why the fast turn over with the electric start doesn't work but the pull start does. I think it was the CDI or coil? As for the check engine light maybe try to disconnect and jumper the oil sending unit and water temp sender individually. Don't know what else makes the light come on...charging system? Reaching a bit here.

[Thorpe]

I suppose a smart guy would get out the ohm meter and the service manual and start ohming out components... I like that theory though...

[DohcBikes]

It sounds like a cdi issue to me right off the bat because of the specific 3000 rpm issue. It very well could be a timing advance issue. Also check all your wiring connections very thouroughly because backfeed will doo funny things too.

I cant wait to get my hands on a honda that starts with pull only. There's a reason, and I wanna know what it is.

[Thorpe]

Doing a batch of things to my wheel chair... (4 wheeler) brakes, fixing the heated grips, fixing the 4x4... Anywho... Was at the dealer ordering the parts, stopped past service to ask about the odd starting. They said my battery is getting weak... When I pull start, all the power is there to run ecu and coil and injector... But when cranking it over, it's pulling the voltage down enough, not everything is firing... Seems to make sense. No idea how old the battery is, as I bought the machine used. Anyone ever used a lithium battery in a wheeler? The lithium is twice what the standard battery is, but since the can ams seem to be a bit pickier about higher power batteries, it's got me thinking...?

[coolpool]

Doing a batch of things to my wheel chair... (4 wheeler) brakes, fixing the heated grips, fixing the 4x4... Anywho... Was at the dealer ordering the parts, stopped past service to ask about the odd starting. They said my battery is getting weak... When I pull start, all the power is there to run ecu and coil and injector... But when cranking it over, it's pulling the voltage down enough, not everything is firing... Seems to make sense. No idea how old the battery is, as I bought the machine used. Anyone ever used a lithium battery in a wheeler? The lithium is twice what the standard battery is, but since the can ams seem to be a bit pickier about higher power batteries, it's got me thinking...?

At least they offered a simple solution and didn't try sucking you in to a bunch of unneeded parts or service. I would stick to OEM unless the Lithium one is reasonably priced.

[big specht]

I second the batt theory. Ford 7.3 diesels would do the same thing when the batts would get low/bad it woe crank over fast enough to start but it wouldn't cause the starter was using all the power and the idm didn't have enough to run the injectors. As for bikes we have ran into starting issues while the charger was on and we were trying to start them, they would back fire and do all kinds of stupid stuff, unhook the charger and put jumper cables to a good batt and they would fire right up . Just throwing in my .02

[MTS]

Yup get a good battery and a battery tender to plug in when it sits to keep it in good shape, seen alot of issues of that nature a few years ago when alll the efi started coming out.

[Thorpe]

On my Honda cbr929, my battery tender ate that battery! Never been a fan since...

Oem type battery is $75, lithium is $150...

[6speedthumper]

Yup, good possibility it's the battery. Seen that all too often working on cars. Gotta love a good ole carb and hei!

[Thorpe]

So... After getting my canned ham reassembled, I took it for a test ride, came back and parked it in the driveway. Cleaned up and went to go move it, won't start with the starter... So, in the sake of diagnostics, reach down and give it a pull of the rope... Still won't run... I am not convinced it's the battery causing my issue. Anyone think a weak fuel pump would cause this? Only odd thing on the fuel pump idea, when it is running, it runs great. No backfires, no sputtering, no stumbling...

[Thorpe]

Was able to recreate the issue yesterday, so when it wouldn't fire, I popped jumper cables onto it, connected to my truck... More battery then it could ever use. Still no start. Thinking the battery is fine. Going to pop a new splug in it, just for cheap insurance, and read that earlier 400's were hard on splugs (carbed versions) and read elsewhere they don't like NGKs... (which I put in 28 hours ago) Anyone ever had a machine that didn't like NGKs? !

[coolpool]

The NGK scenario is a long shot I'm thinking. We all know they make a good product.....don't we? If you can access the fuel line, can you hook up a gravity feed tank temporarily to take the fuel pump out of the equation?

[Thorpe]

I don't think gravity feed will work, as the system runs at 51 psi... Other thing I have come across in my readings, is valve adjustment... Could valves out of adjustment cause a poor hot start?

[atc007]

Get it to die, feed it fuel through the intake. Gas spray or ether. Check your valves 1st for sure!... Then the fuel spray. If it still won't start. You know you're dealing with spark. I think you're dealing with a cdi/electrical issue. I sold a guy a 06 400 as is a couple years back. Not gonna lie. The crap he ran into was nothing short of horrifying ,troubleshooting wise. They are an incredible,terrain swallowing off road vehicle. But,their engineers do some wild electrical stuff,to say the least!! But his wiring had been butchered by a druggy,,literally.