How old or rare is that US90 or that ATC110

[oldcodger]

Hi again ps2fixer, The two attached pictures are interesting. Have not taken my unit apart so I don't have a reaction yet. My pictures are somewhat confusing in that they are of both the blue US90 and the red ATC110. The 90 is together, while covers and such have been removed and not replaced yet on the 110. Neither gas tank is/will be hooked up, using funnel and hoses to get running only (reason for your observation I suppose). Any pictures of the splines on the axles? Have a junked ATC90 of a later year (like 75/78) and the front wheel axle is mountable as is the axle from the 110. One of the pictures shows the 110 wheel and axle on the US90. In my last two attached pictures do the tires shown in the stack of 3 (removed from the 110) appear to be original type? Ok, now we're talking details! Went to the site showing the yellow US90 advertisement. On the big top picture it is shown without the rubber axle nut covers on the rear, why not? There is what looks like a sheet metal belly pan with a large (maybe inch and a half) hole in it, what is it. The foot pegs seem to have a latch like mine without the additional vertical reinforcement as sold currently as a replacement, which is correct? Also the foot pegs don't have the fancy brush bars as shown on the blue Honda factory restore seen elsewhere, which is correct? The seat is pleated, early or late? The clutch adjusting screw/nut does not have the black rubber cover, early or late? Lower smaller pictures seem to show a "gold" color, was their one? and what year? Now see what appears to be a belly pan with three large holes on a head light less unit, what years was it used? Also some of the lower pictured units have headlights and some do not: Dune Buggy (no light), Rock hound(lights with fork ears), Snowmobile (lights with fork ears), beachcomber (no lights), and Water bug (lights with fork ears). Bottom pictures show wheel being slipped on to unit with an "air pump" but no tool box evident, is it located somewhere else? Last observation, the use of the description "Honda ATC 90" in the add would indicate it is not an early advertisement page at all! All this just adds to the confusion! Come on guys lets get some clear details. You guys with the basket cases can help some, but the people with the one owner stuff, or anyone with truly early advertisements or brochures should be able to shed way more light on the subject. Where are you hiding, lets start getting a list of serial Numbers or at least a "range" of the numbers and other obvious details like foot pegs, grab rails, rubber goods, etc?

[ps2fixer]

Very good catches, I'm not really sure if anyone has really done the full research project on them. This is just my feeling and I could be wrong, but one side I have referenced in the past for US90 part numbers labled the 1970~1976ish machines as "Machines with no year" and they were listed only as their model (ATC90 K1 for example).

Talking about that, here is another brochure the is labled for a 1973 ATC90 K1. It also has ATC70 details but that isn't the focus.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/Brochur...73atc9070.html


Now that you have over 10 posts, I'm thinking putting a new thread in Trikesylvania would net better results as that section of the site is viewed much more.

Also found some interesting info here:

http://www.atcheaven.com/Model_ids.htm

Sounds like the headlights on the earliest model was an optional feature.

Here is a couple of photos I found, first is the US90 "old style" and second is the new style

http://www.vintagemotorsports.net/im.../chs-12-lg.jpg
http://www.vintagemotorsports.net/im.../chs-21-lg.jpg

Anyway, I do agree with you that a well documented what changed when for each model/year of the ATC90/US90 would be nice to have.

[muthey]

the latch for your foot pegs are a bolt and a wing nut. also the tool box is on the passenger side under the seat. The rear axle is interchangeable between the the two models of 90's. also your rear wheel adapters I believe were an after market item as I have a set of them just like that. I am in no way an expert on the us 90's I just had and sold an original one this last spring that I picked up from the original owner. I still have the toolbox and the rear axle and hubs w/adapters. the one I had was a red 74 with a headlight on the forks. it did have the clutch adjuster nut rubber cover. Here are some pics of it I put a later model tank on it because I believe it had too much rust and some holes in the original tank.

[muthey]

also those are tri-z hubs on the rear axle with kawasaki rims and tires as they are a 4 x 100 bolt pattern like the tri-z's. the fenders do say atc 90 on them but it is a 74 us 90 in the end, and originally came with the large balloon tires

[Joseph Farrow]

There are US90 experts here. You just have to be patient or list individual questions in a new post or contact one of them personally.
I would contact Kickstand1. He knows the US90 ATC90 and ATC110 like the back of his hand.
You may want to consider joining the US90 ATC90 Owners Group.
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/group.php?groupid=19

Your 70-71 Aquarius Blue 90 is in pretty original shape. All you need is a good set of original tires.

[oldcodger]

Thanks for the reply muthey. I'm starting to believe that the starting point for any meaningful discussion has got to be the Serial Number of the frame and then of secondary importance is the serial number of the engine!! You are telling me about the details on a 1974 model ATC. I have no doubt you are probably correct in your observations about that model. But I was hoping for information about the earliest model, the US90. But, may be this is the starting point for gathering information on all the models? I am not sure I have the capacity for that big a project, and besides the response of any definitive information on just the US90 has been minimal. Lets hope some more people will respond, first with their Frame serial number or range and then with some other particular details.
Thanks also to Joseph Farrow, haven't had time to follow your suggestions but will when I get a chance! Thanks again all.

[coolpool]

Let me see if I can confuse this issue some and hopefully I'm partly right. You have an early model (70/71 K0) based on the indent on the gas tank for the warning sticker and the foot pegs with the locks. I did think the very early ones didn't have heel protectors though? The collapsed front tire is actually a rear tire; too bad, it's got decent tread. Headlight kits were offered as an aftermarket item with chrome hoops holding everything to the forks and a teeny twilight. That seat has been recovered; the K0 and K1 had two slightly different pleats and both had Honda on the rear in white lettering. The rear hub adapters are aftermarket and are designed to fit early (larger) three bolt pattern rims to the small three bolt pattern hubs. All models should have axle rubbers. There's something goofy with the right axle sleeve. I've never seen one with welds on them. And there seems to be one missing on the left? Hopefully I'm wrong and it's the way the early ones were? There are still some hard to get parts at www.vintagemotorsports.com (I think that's right) if interested. Joseph is correct, Kickstand 1 is very knowledgeable and has helped me out immensely. Good luck and thanks for practicing proper post etiquette, bravo! If you have access to the "Albums" check out mine as I have a few US90 pics in there, K0 and K1.

[HairyJR]

First off I’m no expert, but have recently purchased and cleaned up as survivors a couple early US90’s and a ’74 Daytona Orange ATC90. Oldcodger the ’79 ATC 110 is not rare or unique, well used although taken care of maintenance wise with a few up grade replacement parts, handle bar’s, six pack rack, and non original tires. Seat is good, plastics look ok, missing all the decals that denote year-model to average person looking at it. With a couple parts and a little minor maintenance you’ll have a nice running rider, as is it’s not worth a lot being fairly common.
Now as for the US90, again I’m no expert, in my opinion your Aquarius Blue US90 is not rare but is diffidently unique. A un touched original with balloon tires would make it rare, although yours has many of the parts needed to make a good beginning to a restoration early US90 project of any color as many repairs are needed. Yes the iconic Aquarius Blue is the flagship color recognized by all with a cult following.
I can only compare yours to mine for some minor differences. First off we are not the original owners so any repairs or replacement parts that may have been replaced due to usage or rider damage are unknown. My VIN# US90-1003?? had a different rear axle than the VIN# US90-1053?? which looks like yours. Don’t know what your hub adapters look like, many companies made their versions depending on which wheel bolt pattern used.
The US90 frame didn’t have provisions for a tool box, what they had are the brackets to hold an air pump, that’s a rare item. The front motor mount is molded as an integral part of the frame limiting only the 90cc motor without modification.
The folding foot pegs with spring loaded trigger mechanism changed later on to wing nut design. Early US90 taillight lens where larger than later models.
Now your analogy of Corvette tires hurts me as I own two. “Coker” sells almost any tire needed for our classics but no Chevron Balloon tires, in fact no one does that’s why balloon tires are rare and bring a cost premium. During the late 60’s early 70’s several companies made balloon tires, Ohtsu, BF Goodrich, Firestone and I’m pretty sure Goodyear .
Your original statement of using one to fix the other is a great idea, exactly what I’ve done to one of my US90’s. Your ATC110 is the perfect donor, front axle and tire bolt right in. Rear axle assemblies can also be exchanged, eliminating the 6 square style hub splines with the later style splines giving better options for hubs, wheels and tires. If possible I’d like to see pic’s of your hub adaptors viewed from the other side ( axle side ) another aftermarket adaptor.
Please don’t take my post as negative, I’d like to see all 3 wheelers survive.

LOL one oldcodger to another.



"HJ"

[oldcodger]

Ok! been out of town to a family funeral. Thanks "coolpool" for your observations. Do all the gas tanks with screw on badges have the indent for the warning sticker? The seat does show evidence of having been removed, hence the cover probably replaced. The grab rail has a tell tale sign of a lock washer in the area of the tail light assembly, which probably means it had one at some time. The wider hole pattern suggest a different tail light housing in addition to a different lens! Did not understand your comment about heel protectors. Are you seeing them in my photos? What are they? Can't see how a sleeve could be used on the left because of the elliptical joint, the sleeve on the right has all the parts kept together with the welds? Maybe proved to be too expensive in production? I couldn't see how to get relavant parts from the motorsports site mentioned. Haven't yet reached out to "kickstand1" but will cross paths soon, and will also work on accessing "Albums".

Thanks also "HairyJR" for your observations. Disappointed to hear your observation of the ATC110. Was hopping a complete first year unit in good condition might be more collectable and worthy of a "restoration" than a rider made up of gathered mixed year pieces. You are probably right about the "six pack rack?" and the handlebars as I don't see many examples with the braced handle bars. The tires are a bit confusing. The stack of three are from the ATC110, while the tires shown on it are from a third parts donor allowing it to be driven and moved about the yard. Are you saying the stacked tires, the ones that came mounted on the ATC110, are not correct?
With regards to the US90, I agree with you that a showroom fresh unit would be rare indeed and would also add that it would be very unique. My belief is that changing the color during a restoration is not a restoration at all but an effort to make a "sample example"! Any vehicle with a frame number came off the production line in a particular color, and it's restoration is to return it to it's former glory, period. A good unrestored example of something is generally far rarer than a "restored" example but generally less acceptable to the gullible public, most of which want it better than it was ever made! I will look closer for the "many repairs required" comment! On another note, I was pleased that you mentioned your VIN No.s. Your US90 1003?? is by far the earliest I have heard of yet and would be interested to hear about the differences between it and your other US90 1053??. The no tool box provision was also good news, along with the pump and frame comments. Would like to get more information on the spring loaded foot peg mechanism, is mine like yours or does yours have a vertical element? I have no idea about your reaction to the Corvette car comment, or why it should "hurt" you. Are your Corvette cars registered using the number code on the tires? I know I have a lot to learn but what am I missing there? Please don't take my post negative, I'm looking for any constructive information.

[Joseph Farrow]

The frame vin and engine vin will not match like on a car. Usually they were close but not exactly the same.
Here is a pic of my frame vin and engine vin. The motor is original to my bike. I know it's not the earliest but I do think it was made in 70. There are some numbers out there somewhere probably on 3ww showing the start vin for each year model.

[JesseA420]

that is a great find! i feel very neglectful now, i picked up a red '74 90 over 15 years ago, and it has just sat in my back yard while the elements slowly do their dirty work to it. i have spent so much time on building performance bikes i forgot all about it.

...... i do know what my next project will be tho

[HairyJR]

Sorry to disappoint you on the ATC110, I’ve been looking and watching the last 2 years for a ’79 or ’80 110 to replace my first ATC model I owned, still sorry I sold it, but real nice or restored ones range between $800 – 900. The stacked three tires look to be original if Ohtsu and even better if not over inflated.

Yes the taillight on early US90’s had a wider light assembly 110mm as opposed later models of 90mm. As I’m not original owner of the early serial number won’t comment about its rear axle, believe it was replaced with later model say ‘73 or aftermarket as the small diameter axle bent easily and if someone didn’t tighten hub nuts correctly causing the splines to ware excessively. The second 90 has same axle as yours left side, now the right side has welded washer to the spacer tube next to the brake drum, have two more spares that look just like it. Your foot peg spring loaded latches are both broken, mine swing back like yours. Don’t know if the heel protectors (guards) where an option but my early 90 has them and the later doesn’t. The swinging foot peg design changed sometime later to a wing nut/ stud combination design. As far as I know none of the US90 came with welded on headlight ears until ’74, as headlights where an option. Your observation of belly pan is really a skid plate bolted to the exhaust muffler and protects the brake drum and chain guard covers.

Joseph Farrow is correct about frame vin and engine vin numbers, usually are a couple hundred either way from frame vin. The lowest published frame vin number in my “Motorcycle Identification Guide” book is US90-100122. Lets hope some of the real experts chime in an share their knowledge.
Nothing truly meant by the Corvette tire comment, only making the point no one makes original style US90 Balloon tires.

[oldcodger]

Hello "Joseph farrow", "JesseA420" and "HairyJR"! I am finding it surprisingly hard to respond to some of the helpful comments, but please don't be offended if I don't give you your due credit! Yes, the vin (frame) and engine numbers of many different vehicles do not match exactly until the federal government required it. Not sure all manufacturers complied at the same time but someone out there probably knows the story. For whatever reason I can not, at the moment, open pictures. All I get is a darkened screen. Yes I have seen the list of the starting numbers but it does not separate the 1969 from the 1970. Sort of makes you feel that anything before the start of the 1972 number range might be called a 1969 if you wanted to stretch the truth a bit! Thanks for the encouragement Jesse. Yes the stacked tires are Ohtsu, and yes they probably have been over inflated because the rear fender assembly had wooden spacer blocks installed when I got it. two and one half lbs is not something many people know how to manage. Hairy, are you saying that your second 90 does have the same left side axle as mine? And, are you saying the spacer on the right axle has the welded washers the same as mine? The broken right foot peg is broken because of what detail you are observing? Is it the lack of the vertical element? The left is obviously broken, too much missing to be sure what it used to look like. Are the heal protectors the wire hoop (steel rod) as seen on the blue restored unit at the Honda factory featured elsewhere? The belly pan/skid pan, is it actually bolted to the exhaust muffler or is it attached to the frame under the exhaust area? If anyone happens to know the serial number of the Blue unit in the Honda Factory museum it sure would be nice to know it. My original blue paint on the frame stops behind the gas tank and does not extend down to include the motor mount, as the unit in Honda's museum does. Where does the original paint on your frames go? Thanks for the continued input.

[coolpool]

About your question regarding indented gas tanks for the warning label, only the early models had them. I have 5 US90's and 2 spare tanks and to my disappointment none of them have the indent. All K0 70/71 models have the screw in emblems. The steering head should be the only part not painted black. I've never seen pics of the Honda museum piece but wonder if it was the first attempt and the paint scheme changed after that? Heel protectors are the little black rubber strips at the bottom of the fenders; I can't tell you when they started using those. Elliptical joint on the left? I'd love to see a few pics of your rear axle, never to late to learn something new! I'm used to 2 slip on tubes for the right and left axles.

[HairyJR]

Hope your able to view pic’s soon, I’ll attach a couple in hopes that they show many of the topic’s we’re discussing, they are what they looked like when I purchased them before any clean up or repairs. First off I have eat my own words and correct the statement that welded headlight ears started in ’74, wrong started in ’72 and the headlight bucket where painted black as my son has a “Mighty Green” ’72 ATC90. My second 90’s axle assembly appears to be same as yours. Right side spacer tube should just slide off the axle once the wheel/hub is removed allowing axle assembly to be slide to the left for removal. Yes the vertical tag has broken off where its welded to the swing latch, two of mine are missing or broken too. One of the pic’s should show the wire steel loop heel guards from the early 90 and one shows vin # plus the original blue paint scheme. Don’t know how they may have did it in the advertisement brochure but the skid plate is installed upside down to the right, as all others I’ve seen are protecting the chain guard as the sheet metal is bent to fit and install to the left.

As “Coolpool” states about the black rubber Heel protector strips at the bottom of the fenders, my early fender has no holes, but the foot peg wire loops and the later fender as holes drilled for the rubber strips but no foot peg loops, maybe just of the early changes.



"HJ"