250ES Refresh hit a wall...

[Airmapper]

I've personally ground away 20 times that much guide porting before. I would do just that. Dremel it down to where there is no crack,smooth,deburr,ride. Just "buying " a new guide doesn't fix this problem. You need it pressed out and back in. Aligned and regrind the seats. Turns into $200 in a hurry. If you get rid of the crack. She will go for another 30. Most will disagree,I will guarantee lol.

Well this is better than I though, I thought those guides were in there a bit more permanently. But I should have looked it it harder.

Thanks atc007, this idea is more in line with my thinking. It's worth the risk. I don't mind doing something the procedurally "correct" way, but in a case like this if I had to spend another $200+ and more time into it, I'd have to set it aside and not enjoy all the work and money I've put in thus far.

If I had more time and unlimited funds to throw at it, I'd tear it all the way down and do a full rebuild and take no shortcuts, but this started as a minor refresh to get it running again, now it's a project that has my very small (1 car) garage space tied up.

[83ATC185]

If you ground that guide down, would you have to do the exhaust to match or is there no worries there? If no harm, is there any noticeable benefit to doing them both? Just curious

[atc007]

Only a flow bench will tell you rather it gains you actual power. Usually not I'm told, But I sure ground a lot of them down flush back in the day. 200S.X,350X,Quad Sports,Warriors. I never owned a flow bench. But was of the opinion getting all that out of the way was a good idea as long as I was in here. Never had a problem,nor did my customers. Every intake,head,valve,piston exhaust,cam,will have different results. But in this case. No worries that I can see grinding the crack away and cleaning up the guide.Report back in after a few hundred miles please. And hone it and ring it please,if nothing else!

[Airmapper]

And hone it and ring it please,if nothing else!

Would you care to elaborate why I might do that? I'm assuming you are referring to the valve damaging the cylinder when it hit, other than that I have no reason to mess with the cylinder or rings.

I appreciate your opinion greatly. If there is a need I'll consider it, but at the moment I'm not open to "while I'm at it" jobs. I've been down that road on other machines, and it is not an option for this project. I need this buttoned up and out of my garage. I might do it later, but this is a very bad time for me to have a never ending project.

Also I asked a retired friend I worked with for many years, who is an expert tool maker and mechanic, a very detail oriented perfectionist, and very familiar with small engines, about the necessity of honing the cylinder and replacing rings. He told me it would be a waste of my time and money. Told me to never touch the cylinder unless it was burning oil, only fix what was broken, or I'd go down this rabbit hole of fixing more and more expensive stuff that most likely would have been fine if I hadn't messed with it.

[atc007]

Sorry,hadn't seen this till now. A little busy building a home for my Son and D in law. I will assume you are out riding now lol. But anyhow,,,Your valve and piston said hello to each other and they are never supposed to meet. A light hit like that most likely didn't crack the piston. But it surely warranted inspecting. The amount of carbon on top of your piston tells me fresh rings would not hurt her,,,in the least.. You would have increased compression and saved tearing it down later. But I agree. It will run this way . It's just a golden rule,while your that far, Fresh cross hatch and rings.. = Like new performance when she's back together. Hope she's running good now

[Airmapper]

Thanks, I been busy as well. I kinda have a plan now but I'll keep posting here because I hate to find old threads no one ever came back to finish the story for.

Actually it's still in pieces and I'm getting very annoyed. Not at the 3 wheeler but just the situation. I've been busy with work and school and other things and waiting for parts to come in, I just wanted to get it running so I could putt around the farm and do yard chores with the wagon, now it's a long drawn out thing and costing me ever increasing sums of money. I guess that is the way it goes, I tend to get impatient at times.

I didn't grid it out. I thought about it and looked it over with my tools. That may work but I'm not getting in there with a hand held dremmel, I'll tear things up worse and I know it going at it with improper tools and no experience.

I ordered a new valve guide and O ring. Either the guide requires lapping or it's the wrong one. It's .005" smaller in diameter than my new (NOS) valve. I'm not panicking because it makes sense to me that it would be undersized and require lapping to fit the valve rod precisely, like making a precision dowel hole.

I asked a local bike shop to quote installing the guide and lapping the valve, with me handing them everything ready to go. They told me $150, at 2.5 hours labor, which I think is ridiculous, but maybe I don't know what all is required. However I think they might adjust that once I actually show it to them, they gave me a rough book estimate since I was on the phone. I'll probably take my stuff there next week and let them give me a more detailed quote.

[Jmoozy27]

That is way too much!!! My mechanic bored my cylinder, reworked the head, and removed a broken stud for $100. That shop is nuts!!!

[NateN34]

Yeah that's no good.

For my 200, it cost about $85 for: grind valve seats, ream valve guides and install oversized ones. Oh and blasted the whole head clean.

[Airmapper]

Thanks, I need to shop around more, after talking to the mechanic in person, I just didn't like him. Friendly, but shady.

He stuck on $150 firm, said if (as in it was unlikely) it took less than 2.5 hours I'd only pay for what time they worked, yeah, sure. Something tells me if I'm not standing there with a timer it will take every bit of 2.5 hours. I suppose preheating the oven to warm the head is billed at $60 an hour as well...a good mechanic could quote the job, not get on the computer, pull off a generic time estimate and tell me it would take that long.

[Airmapper]

I have to share this, it's just too rich. Not the first time I'm sure but it's just so stupid.

I'm in Bowling Green, KY. It's like the 3rd largest city in the state. So I'm calling around town to find a shop to give me a quote. I call the largest one in town, been around for years and years. I tell about my job, I get emphatically cut off, "We can't work on a Big Rad, those are outlawed, can't get parts for them." At this point I know he's not doing anything for me, so I mess with him. I asked how, and why, he doesn't know just that they are "outlawed and illegal."

I told him he was full of it, and I had already bought new OEM Honda parts for it. He didn't seem affected. I said have a nice day.

I didn't expect much from that shop anyway, they couldn't even give me a decent tire quote a while back. Funny thing is years ago I quoted 3 wheeler parts from them and they would price them.

I got a few leads on some one man shops out in the sticks, closer to home anyway, one said $100, trying to find the other guys number.

[83ATC185]

I just wanted to get it running so I could putt around the farm and do yard chores with the wagon, now it's a long drawn out thing and costing me ever increasing sums of money. I guess that is the way it goes, I tend to get impatient at times.

This. I started with what i dubbed "Project Free Wheeler", a 185s that i planned on building with parts i had laying around, trying to keep costs low, impossibly low. 600 dollars and 3 months later, me and my girlfriend went on our first ride last weekend.

Stick with it, one piece at a time. It'll come together and the result will be something reliable that you can enjoy for years.

[Jmoozy27]

Yeah, I know it's time consuming but I try to do whatever mechanic work I can because it is such a hassle dealing with hard headed people. Find someone and stick with them and down the line it will be beneficial in the future.

[86125m]

i agree find someone that is fair and stick with them and do as mich of the work yourself. Like the old saying goes if you want it done right do it yourself.

[cap]

There is a head on EBay for 60$, just saying as it seems you are getting discouraged. Bolt on and ride. Rebuild your head as time and $$ permit.

[Airmapper]

I went to a local guy in his 70's running a small ATV shop nearby, when I found his name I asked my folks if they knew him and it turns out he's the same guy they took their ATC's to back in the day, and the local NAPA said good things about him. I ended up spending about 40 minutes just shooting the bull with him about fixing ATV's and stuff, seems like a nice guy.

He doesn't do the machine work, but he uses a local automotive machine shop I'm familiar with. All they need to do is the reaming to the guide. I don't have a total price, I think he is going to let me know what the machine shop wants to charge, but his initial quote was much lower than the other local big shops, I don't think he will be more than they were, and I'd rather support small business anyway.

There is a head on EBay for 60$, just saying as it seems you are getting discouraged. Bolt on and ride. Rebuild your head as time and $$ permit.

I considered that, if they can't fix my head I may go that way. I was a bit concerned over the shims under the head, I don't know if that is a precision fit to "my" head or not.