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Thread: Tri Z Engine Build

  1. #16
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    Apr 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3 Wheel Drive View Post
    Ive got an extra HD Sprock Racing base gasket if want one pm me. All the info for the Vforce3 reeds is good on the Z they will come with 4 holes no worries. Here's a pic of the reeds & HD Z gaskets:

    Attachment 209043

    Its hard to believe after all the bling on your Z and time building that trailer, you don't have those fancy reeds yet?!
    So I can buy the V-Force in that link without worry? What's the story on the gasket? Thicker? better material? Thanks!
    It sucks to get old

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    If you have part numbers Mosh posted use them when ordering. His z build has a lot of info on all the sprock stuff and those reeds:http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthr...ember-products

    see post 72
    http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthr...-Z-build/page5
    Last edited by 3 Wheel Drive; 01-27-2015 at 11:58 PM. Reason: post 72

  3. #18
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    I see the V-Force mentioned that thread, but no part #'s. In another thread on here from 2013 I see the owner has a "stuffer" in his 303 block. P/N AG682FM.
    It sucks to get old

  4. #19
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    The Open Road
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    This thread is so full of knowledge, I got me a chubba wubba just reading it.

    Thanks, y`all

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Mexico
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    Pulled the engine out and removed the head. Did not like what I saw. The cross hatches above the exhaust port are polished out after just 6 hours of use. The port is 47.5mm straight across. According to what I've read .71% of the bore is as big as it should go. That would be 48.6mm, getting close to the max. The port is also flat across the top where it should be higher to let the rings close up before they contact the area directly above the center of the port. I hope it can be "fixed".

    Put a degree wheel on it and took a bunch of measurements I'll post later. I found a website that calculates your timing after you plug in your numbers. It's telling me my exhaust timing is 190deg and my transfer timing is 126 deg. I need to learn about this calculation method because the site asked for my con rod length which I believe is 130mm. What difference does the con rod length make when the stroke is already in the equation? Maybe that's a stupid question and I'm too tired to realize it?

    The other thing is the results the site comes up with. According to my degree wheel the transfers start to open 120 deg ATDC and close 60 deg ABDC. To me that's 120 deg, but they are saying 126 degees Maybe it's because they are considering the top ring as the open/close point rather than the dome?

    This is going to be real learning experience.
    It sucks to get old

  6. #21
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    Sep 2010
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    I know I'm too tired to answer the rod length right now. ..Top of piston opens and closes the windows..Always has anyhow lol... I never heard of using the ringland? Never too old to start learning lol/Are we changing/making a pipe for all the new numbers ? Wish I had your time lol....I hope she lands right where you want to have her. Sounds like you're cylinder or sleeve shopping first ? I think the only Z cylinder I have needs sleeved also.
    Please help those who cannot help themselves.

    ALWAYS buying Museum quality machines,3 and 4 wheels. And any and ALL ,NOS parts,EVERY brand.

    I am turning my PM's Off,my Email is billsracing@hotmail.com,put 3WW in the subject. Thanx!

    Gun laws do not stop criminals. BULLETS do.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Camexican View Post
    I need to learn about this calculation method because the site asked for my con rod length which I believe is 130mm. What difference does the con rod length make when the stroke is already in the equation? Maybe that's a stupid question and I'm too tired to realize it?
    I am by no means an expert, but I believe the reason the rod length is important to the calculation is because of the non-linear ratio between crank movement in degrees, and piston movement in inches/mm/whatever. The longer the rod, the more degrees the crank will move for the same given amount of piston motion near TDC and BDC. The piston in a long rod engine spends more "time" at TDC and BDC than an engine with identical stroke but a shorter rod.
    1985 Tri-Z 250
    1985 ATC250R

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    southern oregon
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Camexican View Post
    Put a degree wheel on it and took a bunch of measurements I'll post later. I found a website that calculates your timing after you plug in your numbers. It's telling me my exhaust timing is 190deg and my transfer timing is 126 deg. I need to learn about this calculation method because the site asked for my con rod length which I believe is 130mm. What difference does the con rod length make when the stroke is already in the equation? Maybe that's a stupid question and I'm too tired to realize it?

    The other thing is the results the site comes up with. According to my degree wheel the transfers start to open 120 deg ATDC and close 60 deg ABDC. To me that's 120 deg, but they are saying 126 degees Maybe it's because they are considering the top ring as the open/close point rather than the dome?

    This is going to be real learning experience.
    Timing reference is always top edge of piston, unless it's a dykes top ring. There's bound to be error between a program and degree wheel findings. The rod length and deck hight inputs are very important for accuracy with a computer program. Not to mention using a degree wheel is somewhat subjective when eyeballing opening/closing points. My earlier question was about port timing. I was curious what the phase mod worked out to in crank degrees, and if you had went beyond phase2 when "fixing" the port. Thanks for the info. 35degrees blowdown is getting up there and probably causing the scary late power hit. I would raise the transfer to 126.
    2-stroke lover

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Ab Canada
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    So how many degrees ATDC is your exaust opening? according to your wheel.
    1985 Tri-Z-

    Quote Originally Posted by mywifeknowseverything
    Just hit the Freakin Gas and Hold on!!!!!

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Mexico
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    Thanks to all who are posting. I need as much coaching, scolding and prodding as I can get. Speaking of which, what happened to Mosh's last post??? Didn't have a chance to make notes.

    CR480/MTS I am trying to properly layout my ports on paper as well as document all other info that might be needed before changing anything. I'll post them up when its presentable, but I need to make sure it is properly formatted, so I have some reading to do. ATDC was either 86 or 94, the notes are on another computer. The rest of the holes should be stock, but I see the floors are slightly below the crown at BDC, so that thicker gasket that 3 Wheel Drive was so kind to offer should add port window exposure all by itself!

    At the moment I don't know if I need to consider the intake port, or the piston ports as they are never exposed in the cylinder and never completely sealed.

    Something else that intrigued me is the domed piston VS perhaps a flat top. Found this the other day, so I guess there is no reason to yearn for a flat top http://www.2strokeheads.com/tech3.htm

    Bill, I plan to work with the cylinder I have and yes I'm hoping to mess with the pipe before this is over, but the first version will likely look like Robot Chicken after a bad car crash (you have no idea what that means, so I'm posting a pic) I've started gathering up dented pipes from people so I can cut them up and add and subtract sections as needed. A little fire resistant duct tape might come in handy during the process.
    Attachment 209273

    Been watching the Trikefest drags and "listening" to some of the trikes. I'm going to guess that the late Yamahondaman that has been mention many times owned the Yamaha at minute 1:20? Best sounding Yamaha since my YZ80! Anyone know where that trike is? And who owns the Kawi at 8 minutes? Both sound great.
    It sucks to get old

  11. #26
    fabiodriven's Avatar
    fabiodriven is offline Aspiring romance novel cover model, and the Official 3WW slayer of thieves and swindlers. Catch me if you can
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    You got me going with that video. Ronnie's Mantis was the cat's meow of it's time I'm told. I just missed him and didn't have the pleasure of lining up with him. He must have been quite the man to make a Tri-Z go fast.

    I'm appreciating this thread as well, particularly the port timing. I liked that explanation about why the degree wheel might read different with a longer rod. I knew there was a significance, but I couldn't put my finger on it.

    These videos aren't just to toot my own horn, I can assure you. They're more geared towards patting myself on the back. There's a really nice sounding Kawi you can see at about 15 seconds in this video as well as around the 2:02 mark. I've heard the pilot drinks motor oil for breakfast and eats fouled spark plugs and s them out good as new.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdMt49-bsTM



    Haha, sorry for the hijack buddy.
    85 Tri-Zinger 60
    85 ATC250SX
    86 ATC250SX
    87 ATC250SX
    02 XR650L conversion
    84 ATC 480R

  12. #27
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    Jul 2012
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    Im pretty sure Orangeshee03 owns The Mantis now, it has the sickest turbo crank Ive ever seen. Theres a few pics somewhere on the forums. Im sending your gasket out Priority tomorrow, I got busy the last few days my bad. If your 2nd boost port has not been welded prior to being drilled out, it may crack at some point from vibration.

    The gasket is about the only thing I have to offer, all this tech stuff with degree wheels and port timing is way over my head.

  13. #28
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    You have seen the right side intake pics of Z cylinders blown apart right El? They love to break around the cylinder nut area,,some very impressively!!
    Please help those who cannot help themselves.

    ALWAYS buying Museum quality machines,3 and 4 wheels. And any and ALL ,NOS parts,EVERY brand.

    I am turning my PM's Off,my Email is billsracing@hotmail.com,put 3WW in the subject. Thanx!

    Gun laws do not stop criminals. BULLETS do.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by YTZ drew View Post
    I am by no means an expert, but I believe the reason the rod length is important to the calculation is because of the non-linear ratio between crank movement in degrees, and piston movement in inches/mm/whatever. The longer the rod, the more degrees the crank will move for the same given amount of piston motion near TDC and BDC. The piston in a long rod engine spends more "time" at TDC and BDC than an engine with identical stroke but a shorter rod.
    YTZ drew- Is correct, it is called "Dwell"
    Email- onformula1@hotmail.com Rebuilt, Revalved, custom springs, lowering, forks & shocks, Custom Suspension, all brands, 2-3-4 wheeler's- PM or Email with questions.

    ***Check out my album for cool pictures*** http://www.3wheelerworld.com/album.php?albumid=2527

    As always- Everything I post is IMHO.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by fabiodriven View Post
    These videos aren't just to toot my own horn, I can assure you. They're more geared towards patting myself on the back.
    LOL!!! That's going in the haha file

    I can't see the video for some reason, but I can hear your engine. Sounds a lot like mine while trail riding in tight woods. I'm not getting to TF until 2016, is it too soon for trash talk
    It sucks to get old

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