New to me...1985 200X....metal shavings in the oil

[barnett468]

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Your gonna take it all apart and paint it now, aren't ya?

[barnett468]

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OIL PUMP INSPECTION AND BLUEPRINTING

The oil pump is a frequently overlooked area, so I would disassemble the oil pump and inspect it, especially since the housing is aluminum and you obviously have some metal in the engine that could gouge it up . . Plus it is 30 years old.

I would also do the following because that’s the way I am, but it is a bit of overkill for a stock engine . . One of the reasons I would do this is because if possible, I would drill a hole from the cam bearing surfaces into an oil passage to increase oil flow to the cam bearings because if I remember correctly and from what I can see in your photos, there is not constant pressurized oil flow to the cam.

This is the oil pump housing . . the oil pump gears sit in here and they should be flush with the top of the housing . . if they are below the surface of the housing, then the pump is not operating at optimum efficiency, in which case all you need to do is the following.

Put a piece if 400 grit sand paper on a granite counter top or window next to the frame.

Spray water or WD40 on it.

Place the housing on the paper and sand it until the gears are flush with the surface.

The oil pump gasket cover will provide the correct clearance.




Ok, I would do the following because that’s the way I am but it is a bit of overkill if the other oil passages are left stock . . One of the reasons I would do this is because I would drill a hole from the cam bearing surfaces into an oil passage of there is no direct oil supply to them.

This is the oil pump housing . . The oil pump gears sit in here and they should be flush with the top of the housing . . if they are below the surface of the housing, then the pump is not operating at optimum efficiency, in which case all you need to do is the following.

Put a piece if 400 grit sand paper on a granite counter top or window next to the frame.

Spray water or WD40 on it.

Place the housing on the paper and sand it until the gears are flush with the surface.

The oil pump cover gasket will provide the correct clearance.



These are the oil pump gears and they should also be the exact same height/thickness . . You can sand the taller of the two if you want but finish it off with around 800 grit so it doesn’t abrate the cover.

It the cover is lightly scored, you can sand that too with 800 only [not 400].

[BigRedGrizzly]

Yep... I'm on a roll... : )

[barnett468]

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THOUGHT YOU MIGHT ENJOY READING ABOUT THIS OLD WHITE BROTHERS ATC200X BUILD

http://200x.webs.com/documents/WhiteBros200x.pdf

[BigRedGrizzly]

Thanks everybody. Here's my plan.
- Bore to 65.5
- Wiseco hi performance piston kit
- Slightly upgraded cam from stock since the valve springs are beefed
- Rockerarms hard welded

Getting all my parts in order and will ship Monday morning.

[knappyfeet]

Thanks everybody. Here's my plan.
- Bore to 65.5
- Wiseco hi performance piston kit
- Slightly upgraded cam from stock since the valve springs are beefed
- Rockerarms hard welded

Getting all my parts in order and will ship Monday morning.

Nice choice. BTW if you ever want that to run right again....include the airbox lid with your list of parts. I might also throw in a
K&N filter.

Your finish looks OK in the photo....any plans for refinishing?

[knappyfeet]

CAMSHAFT

Measure the width of the lobe also and with the height information, we can guestimate how “big” of a cam it is.

As I mentioned, that cam will have a small but still noticeable, greater amount of power with a 10.25 compression piston . . I can also see that your engine was burning at least a little oil so it had to be at least a little down on compression from stock so even just redoing the top end with a stock piston will increase the power albeit by probably a small margin.


COMPRESSION

If you are using 91 octane gas or higher, you can run a 10.25 piston without fear of detonation, therefore, if you want more power than stock and better throttle response than stock, there is absolutely no reason not to run a 10.25 compression piston, but obviously, the choice is yours . . I will add that increasing the compression will make it slightly harder kick over, but by the sounds of it, it probably won't be much harder to kick over than your 200s is . . If you want it as a training tool for your kids, than I might just leave the compression and cam stock but still bore it out, but only go .25 mm [.010"] over if I could find a piston that size.


CARBURETOR

The higher the compression, the more volumetric efficiency your engine will be . . This means, that as volumetric efficiency increase, the carburetor size should or could be increased.

The higher the rpms, the bigger the carb should be because the greater the air flow requirements are.

The XR200, is a more powerful engine that the ATC200x and it revs farther and it has a bigger carb . . If I increased the compression, and the cam size, I would definitely increased the carb size proportionally, which in your case would be by around 2 – 3 mm . . This size increase is also a very conservative one . . I have seen people run much bigger carbs than this in these engines but that doesn’t mean they weren’t too big . . I was 16 once too, and at that time I thought that if I put a 900 cfm double pumper Holley on my nearly stock 265 ci Chevy engine, it would magically have 100 more hp, lol.


BORING THE CYLINDER

I wouldn’t even waste my time measuring a 30 year old cylinder that obviously burns oil . . Yes, some of the oil might be from the valves guides but it doesn’t matter . . The truer the bore is, the better the rings will seat which equates to more compression and the LONGER it will last before you have to do it again.


BORE SIZE

Although you will get more power from a 1 mm over piston than you will from a .5 mm over piston, it will be a very, very small amount, therefore, I would only bore it to .5 over . . The benefits of this are that you will not only have an additional bore you can now do if needed, but it will in fact run slightly cooler because of the slightly thicker cylinder wall, and after all, it is an AIR cooled engine.

I don't think the OP is trying to build a "race engine".......he's trying to make his 200x not suck. He dosent have a benchmark of performance for his 200x primarily because it never ran correctly. I bet if he brought it to a completely stock operating condition it would feel like a race bike compared to how it is currently. It sounds as if his "S" model is peppier

[barnett468]

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Hello all... I finally found a 200X what appears to be in pretty good condition. It feels like it's lacking the power my 200s has. The X definitely doesn't wheely as easily.

I don't think the OP is trying to build a "race engine".......he's trying to make his 200x not suck.

I guess you didn't read the rest of my posts, otherwise you would have realized that I don't either, which is why I didn’t suggest that he get titanium valves and titanium, springs, a super lightweight custom 12:1 piston from J and E with a short, thin wall, tapered tool steel pin, ported cylinder head, REM finishing transmission, ceramic titanium disulphide coated bearings, lightened flywheel and a multi spark high voltage ignition box etc, however, it does sound to me like he wants it to at least wheelie better than his 200s.

He dosent have a benchmark of performance for his 200x primarily because it never ran correctly. I bet if he brought it to a completely stock operating condition it would feel like a race bike compared to how it is currently. It sounds as if his "S" model is peppier

It seems to me that without a properly running, stock, 200x to compare to, it would be reasonable for most people to guess that the stock performance of a 200x would be at the very least equal to what looks like his stock 200s in the background of his photo in post 1, in which case he could use that as the low benchmark with the assumption that a 200x should run even slightly better than the 200s.

[BigRedGrizzly]

Yes.. A solid air box lid is in order. When I was filling out the (generic) paperwork to order the piston it asked if I would like to order the top end bearing as well. The existing connecting rod and wrist pin do not make use of this bearing. I'm think this is a generic question since I'd imagine most modern engines have a top end bearing.
Also,, if I remove this cover will it give me access to the timing chain. I ask for two reasons. One, I'd like to replace it. Two, that damn pin that goes on the cam for the pulser is not accounted for. I feel I should do my due diligence and at least inspect for it. I'd hate to all this work and then have it F'd up by that little pin because I didn't attempt to locate it.

Thanks for all your comments, guidance, and information. I feel a lot less naïve and way more comfortable. If this goes as well as expected I may get into the 200s motor next.

[knappyfeet]

Yes....you can remove the cover and the stator then get access to the cam chain, adjuster and arm and then remove. You might find your pin in that area. I think your correct assuming it's a generic question. Maybe they're talking about the cam bearing?

[barnett468]

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TOP END BEARING

This is used on a two strokes, not a 4 strokes, so yes it is a generic question . . On stock automotive engines, the small end of the connecting rod is heated, then the pin is inserted thru the piston and rod . . When the rod cools, it tightens up on the pin . . On high perf automotive engines [custom builds], the pin floats freely on the rod just as it does on a motorcycle, however, in the case of automotive rods, they use bronze bushings in the small end when the pin is free floating.


MISSING DOWEL PIN

Well, your flywheel is magnetic, so if it did fall down there you might get lucky and find it stuck to that, lol . . If not, you can always get a magnetic drain plug which I like to run anyway to try and catch any steel rubbing off of the gears and if it is in the engine, it might eventually get caught by that . . In reality, it is not likely to get into the crank or gear box area because of the way the oil slots are designed and located, plus, even if it did, its weight would keep it on the bottom of the case which is away from everything.

If you don’t find it in that area, you could also magnetize a long thin screw driver by rubbing a magnet along the length of the shaft around 6 times in the same direction then poke it inside the different holes in the case to try and pick it up.

If Honda no longer has the pin or has something longer you can cut down, it is available from the site below, however, if you have a real industrial hardware supply store near you, you can likely find one there the correct od and simply grind it to the correct length if it’s too long . . Grainger also carries them but you need to buy a box of then for $20.00.

The size is 3 mm x 5.2 mm long.

http://www.grainger.com/category/ecatalog/N-1z0dpem

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc200x-1.../#.VY8BXlLLDdU

[BigRedGrizzly]

Thanks guys... Good info there. Honda does still have the pin so I do have it on order. I was looking for it during the disassembly but I swear I never saw it or heard it or anything. I'll get in there tomorrow. If that sucker is in there I'll find it.
Thanks for educating me on the top end bearing.

[barnett468]

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FLYWHEEL PULLER

If you don't have one you can save yourself $15.00 by going to the industrial hardware stores and getting a 14 mm x 1.5 thread pitch hex bolt around 2" long or you can find them online at several places.

You can use an old school, adjustable strap wrench to hold the flywheel or just tighten the bolt then hit it with the air gun lightly but remove the timing chain first and while wearing a glove, hold the connecting rod so it doesn't beat the crap pout of the case as it flails around . . Inspect the end of the crank for flaring afterwards because they are pretty soft . . If it flared just file it flat, no big deal.

http://monsterfastener.com/item/cshs...FYY9gQodr1YAdQ

[barnett468]

Thanks guys... Good info there. Honda does still have the pin so I do have it on order. I was looking for it during the disassembly but I swear I never saw it or heard it or anything. I'll get in there tomorrow. If that sucker is in there I'll find it.
Thanks for educating me on the top end bearing.

No prob, you're welcome . . I like to include a bit of additional info in some instances because I think it might be interesting for people like yourself whom seem to be interested in learning more than just the basics like how to check the oil screen and filter etc . . Many others here know these things also but are sometimes just more brief with their answers which of course is perfectly fine too.

[barnett468]

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TIMING CHAIN

I would replace it due to its unknown condition . . I would not use anything other than an orig chain or a D.I.D. chain . . The box looks like the one below.