85 ATC250R Refresh / Rebuild (First Timer)

**Onetrackmind** · 11-09-2016, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by yaegerb

That turned out excellent! Nice job man!

Thanks brother! It wouldn't have happened without your help ...[emoji482]

I took it for a quick spin around the block after I did some slow jet tuning and DAM what a difference! I didn't even get it off the needle and it was wanting to put the front tire in the air!

The curiosity of what it can do pegged out may just tip the scale in favor of flogging her just like Honda intended.

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**Aulbaugh** · 12-13-2016, 10:05 AM

Looks real good! The before and after pictures are great!

**Onetrackmind** · 12-13-2016, 05:19 PM

Thank you sir!

I really was kinda like a "General Contractor" on this build when it comes right down to it though. I stripped it down and sent 75% of the pieces to various pros to be refinished, rebuilt or replated then all I had to do was bolt it all back together! [emoji106]

Many thanks to those that helped along the way. [emoji482][emoji482][emoji482]

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**ATCeeya** · 12-17-2016, 12:09 AM

This was a great thread. You did an awesome job. If I ever get around to restoring one of my trikes I will do it "general contractor" style just like you did! I'm sure you have a lot of time and effort invested into this build even with the help of others. Some ppl are really good at what they do and sometimes it's best for you to let them help! Plus I'm sure they enjoy taking part in a nice rebuild as well. Well done sir!

**Onetrackmind** · 12-17-2016, 01:16 PM

Thank you sir! I still find myself staring at it and saying "damn you're hot!" Is that weird? Lol...

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**Onetrackmind** · 12-17-2016, 02:02 PM

I wish we had dunes closer, but Little Sahara is 5.5 hrs north and Monahans is 6.5 hrs west... oh well.

Yeah, I'm sure the R feels used and a little demeaned.

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**Onetrackmind** · 08-05-2017, 10:44 PM

So...8 months later and I'm still having front brake woes. The only issue I have had with this trike is soft front brakes. The caliper has been rebuilt and the master as well (twice). And when I say "soft" brakes, I mean about 50% and I can pull the lever to the grip. SOME resistance, but not NEAR enough.

I have reached the end of the internet searching and reading brake bleeding threads and have tried every single technique that I have found.

So far I have manually bled through the bleeder. Bled the top banjo, bottom banjo, then the bleeder (yep...the bleeder threads wrapped in teflon). I have gravity bled and even reverse bled. Tried taking the caliper off the rotor and slowly turning it (maybe a bubble behind the upper piston) while reverse bleeding. I've worked the lever while turning the bars stop-to-stop and even left the bars on each stop for hours at a time hoping for bubbles to rise. Oh...and vacuum bled multiple containers of DOT-4 with the Mi-T vac.

I'm at my wits end and even enlisted the advice of some very seasoned veterans in the trike world and am literally stumped.

The only variable that I haven't addressed is the brake line. I bought a reproduction OEM line off eBay which looks dead-nuts on, but I have no idea how well it functions.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-ATC-25...OVne-X9X9t1pCA
The only reason that I am questioning it is that I haven't read any reviews on it and the fact that there is quite a bit of expansion in the line under pressure. All along the line, I can feel feel a considerable amount of expansion with the lever pulled and it even contracts in length.

Before I pull the line off and try something else, does anyone have any insight into what I might be missing or even about this brake line that I have installed?

Thanks fellas...if I had any hair left, I would have pulled it all out by now!

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**Shawn Powell** · 08-05-2017, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by Onetrackmind

So...8 months later and I'm still having front brake woes. The only issue I have had with this trike is soft front brakes. The caliper has been rebuilt and the master as well (twice). And when I say "soft" brakes, I mean about 50% and I can pull the lever to the grip. SOME resistance, but not NEAR enough.

I have reached the end of the internet searching and reading brake bleeding threads and have tried every single technique that I have found.

So far I have manually bled through the bleeder. Bled the top banjo, bottom banjo, then the bleeder. I have gravity bled and even reverse bled. Tried taking the caliper off the rotor and slowly turning it (maybe a bubble behind the upper piston) while reverse bleeding. I've worked the lever while turning the bars stop-to-stop and even left the bars on each stop for hours at a time hoping for bubbles to rise. Oh...and vacuum bled multiple containers of DOT-4 with the Mi-T vac.

I'm at my wits end and even enlisted the advice of some very seasoned veterans in the trike world and am literally stumped.

The only variable that I haven't addressed is the brake line. I bought a reproduction OEM line off eBay which looks dead-nuts on, but I have no idea how well it functions.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-ATC-25...OVne-X9X9t1pCA
The only reason that I am questioning it is that I haven't read any reviews on it and the fact that there is quite a bit of expansion in the line under pressure. All along the line, I can feel feel a considerable amount of expansion with the lever pulled and it even contracts in length.

Before I pull the line off and try something else, does anyone have any insight into what I might be missing or even about this brake line that I have installed?

Thanks fellas...if I had any hair left, I would have pulled it all out by now!

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When I bought my 350x I had a similar issue. I rebuilt the caliper (even though it seemed fine) I replaced the brake lines with HEL plastic coated stainless steel lines and bled bled bled. I ended up replacing my master cylinder with one from a 400ex( brand new from Honda ) mostly so I could use asv levers, and boom one good bleeding session and rock hard brakes. Very responsive (Tusk sintered pads) and have he'd up very well over two years. Mine is not a restoration though. Forgive me if yours is. Was decently priced brand new and has more pressure than the old units.

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**Onetrackmind** · 08-05-2017, 11:19 PM

Thanks Shawn...you brought up another good point. I never spec'ed the bore of my master cylinder. The cups on the piston fit really snug in there, but I may be slightly out of tolerance on the ID of the master bore.

This did turn into a restoration, so I would really like to keep it correct. But if my master itself is bad, I may need to find another alternative.

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**Shawn Powell** · 08-06-2017, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by Onetrackmind

Thanks Shawn...you brought up another good point. I never spec'ed the bore of my master cylinder. The cups on the piston fit really snug in there, but I may be slightly out of tolerance on the ID of the master bore.

This did turn into a restoration, so I would really like to keep it correct. But if my master itself is bad, I may need to find another alternative.

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Yeah that's rough when your doing a full restoration. Good luck.

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**barnett468** · 08-06-2017, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by Onetrackmind

So...8 months later and I'm still having front brake woes. The only issue I have had with this trike is soft front brakes. The caliper has been rebuilt and the master as well (twice). And when I say "soft" brakes, I mean about 50% and I can pull the lever to the grip. SOME resistance, but not NEAR enough.

The only variable that I haven't addressed is the brake line. I bought a reproduction OEM line off eBay which looks dead-nuts on, but I have no idea how well it functions.

The only reason that I am questioning it is that I haven't read any reviews on it and the fact that there is quite a bit of expansion in the line under pressure. All along the line, I can feel feel a considerable amount of expansion with the lever pulled and it even contracts in length.

Get rid of that Chinese piece of crap hose and get a used orig hose or a braided steel one as Shawn Powell mentioned.

If you have silicon brake fluid, get rid of every drop of that crap also.

PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR AND THE ONLY PERSON ON 3WW WITHOUT AN EDIT BUTTON OR A STAR

**Onetrackmind** · 08-06-2017, 09:22 AM

Thanks Barnett...I have my takeoff original line and will experiment with it later today. If this turns out to be the brake line at fault, I will be pissed (but relieved). Hey...at least I will have honed my brake bleeding skillz to a Ninja-like sharpness. [emoji6]

But in all fairness, I know Mike at Vintage helped develop these hoses and has used them on his restorations (as have several other members). I don't want to throw stones at this product because it could still likely be my ineptitude that is causing this problem.

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**Aulbaugh** · 08-06-2017, 01:26 PM

Dang your hose situation makes me alittle nervous as I have one on stock that will be going on in the next couple weeks.

**Onetrackmind** · 08-06-2017, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by glamy

So did you get it dirty ? .......i knew you couldn't leave it alone !

Ha! Nope...no dirt on it yet. I have ridden it around the hood and taken it out to the farm for some break-in rides, but only on dry days.[emoji16]

Honestly, every time I want to ride it...I think about the fact that I still haven't solved the front brake problem. But no more...

After months of head scratching and brake bleeding...and I mean every dam method of brake bleeding known to man (and a few that only aliens know about). Then rebuilding brake components and then rebuilding them again cuz...hey, rebuild kits are free and grow on trees in Texas. Finally! Finally, I narrowed down my problem.

The hose.

The awesome looking, dead-nuts on, perfect copy of the OEM hose that looks perfect on the trike and really makes for the legit OEM build look hose...doesn't work. [emoji31]

I pulled it off and put back on my beat-up, nasty, with the burnt marshmallow looking silicon banjo-to-hose joint thingy and did one reverse bleed to a full reservoir. And BAM!!! First. Freakin'. Pull of the lever, I had rock hard front brakes. And I mean perfect. Not one extra bit of bleeding required...didn't even look at the Mi-T vac.

So...like I thought I would be...I'm relieved that I don't have one of those Gremlins that I wind up chasing forever anymore, but I'm a bit miffed too. I love the look of this hose...it really looks perfect. Unfortunately, it just doesn't perform.

Hopefully, I just got a bad one and everyone else that has or will use them doesn't have the headache that I have dealt with for months. I am going to contact the seller and see what he has to say. Maybe I will try another one from a different batch...maybe not. I might just try to have a local hydraulic hose company make me a new one and cannibalize this one of it's pretty, new silicon thingy and all the rubber and clear plastic protectors.

I will report back later, but for now...I'm just ecstatic to have operational brakes again! [emoji482]

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**barnett468** · 08-07-2017, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by Onetrackmind

After months of head scratching and brake bleeding...and I mean every dam method of brake bleeding known to man (and a few that only aliens know about). Then rebuilding brake components and then rebuilding them again cuz...hey, rebuild kits are free and grow on trees in Texas. Finally! Finally, I narrowed down my problem. The hose.

The awesome looking, dead-nuts on, perfect copy of the OEM hose that looks perfect on the trike and really makes for the legit OEM build look hose...doesn't work.

I told you the problem was the hose after you told us what it was doing under pressure. Every one of those cheap pos chinese hoses just like yours will in fact do the same thing.

PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR AND THE ONLY PERSON ON 3WW WITHOUT AN EDIT BUTTON OR A STAR

Thread: 85 ATC250R Refresh / Rebuild (First Timer)

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