Guns n' Gays...

[atc300r]

Im planning to buy a couple shotguns for the house.Id like to get a pistol permit aswell.I would like to see ny go to open carry but haha good luck with that.

[ironchop]

Don't forget that the other guy who was reportedly arrested on his way to SF Gay Pride same day to cause harm with a carload of assault rifles, ammo, and explosives? Well that police chief DID arrest the guy but LIED about what he said he was up to. So it just quietly went away with nobody asking why a police chief would wildly fabricate the story on Twitter then come back and recant with no explanation or apology.

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[knappyfeet]

So here I am sitting at the border for over two hours now with at least one hour more to go. Apparently the reaction to an American born person who was investigated by the FBI prior to going nuts and killing a bunch of innocent people because he belonged to a mosque where two other members had already committed suicide attack mission overseas is to increase security at a border where 90% or more of the people crossing are Catholic. Do you feel safer now?

That's nuts.

Think about it........they already won. I mean...if causing chaos in America was the goal....the terrorists or fundamentalists already won. Not only the increased scrutiny at the boarder, ball games, plastic see thru purses/bags, etc.......but now they have our own people stripping down your mother at the airport....complete humiliation.... because she wants to go to a wedding in Arkansas. A couple more of these attacks on our soft points by terrorists and they are going to get the greatest win/gift of all........disarming the american population.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Alot of good points made here.. Chop, I have been making the same comparison about France when talking about this for the last two days. There is a largely gun-free utopia and guess what, disarmed, hapless victims were slaughtered.

I do feel the need to address a few statements made here, specifically Hoosierlogger.

Hoosier: In no way am I about to imply that I disagree with you making the good and smart choice to carry with what I am about to say. I just need to correct the record on rights as you stated that your 2a right grants you the liberty to carry at a place of business regardless of a sign on the door stating "no firearms allowed". Yes, we have the 2nd amendment protected right to keep and bear arms, 100%, absolutely. HOWEVER, the right of the owner of private property, (yes, a place of business, even if open to the public is still private property) does supersede your right as an individual to carry. Despite the fact that the business is open to the public, it is still private property. And the owner of property does have the right to bar the carrying of firearms on his property. Look at it this way, lets say you have an issue with alcohol, you don't drink, and you do not allow alcohol to be consumed on your property. This is absolutely your right to bar the consumption of alcohol on your property. If a friend stopped by and plopped a cooler full of frosty brews on your front porch and refused to comply with your rule barring alcohol on your property, you would be outraged and rightfully so. You would then ask that person to leave, justifiably so and within your rights as a property owner.

Now lets flip it around back to guns again. You have an anti-2a friend who stops by for a visit, sees your sidearm and demands you lock it in your safe while he is there. Obviously, you would laugh in his face because it is YOUR property and you can carry there if you wish and nobody can force you to do otherwise.

Just as you have the right to carry and own firearms on your property and nobody can force you to do otherwise, other (foolish) people can effectively ban firearms on their property as well. Liberty goes both ways.

Now I'll grant you that the right to keep and bear arms is specifically protected by 2a while alcohol consumption is not. But the principle is exactly the same. Individual rights and the constitution must be adhered to, even if it may sometimes be an inconvenience to one person or the next from time to time.

Having said all of that, I completely agree that business owners who adopt such policies are off their meds. The best way to make a statement is to not patronize their business.

Furthermore and if nothing else, I just wanted to make sure you understand that so you can make a better informed choice. If you carry in an establishment that has a "no firearms" sign posted and are caught, you would most likely lose any consequent legal battle that could ensue.

If there is no sign of any kind, then that's a whole different matter and subject to state and local regulations.

Again, I get where you are coming from, and I am a strong supporter of 2a as it truy does pertain to the individual citizen. But 2a is not the only God given, inherent right protected by the constitution and the Bill of Rights.

[Mr. Clean]

Wasn't this thread title a rock band from the 80's?

[hoosierlogger]

I understand what you are saying and I can assure you your comparison of guns and alcohol are not that same scenario.

I'm not saying it's right to ignore the signs, but it's what I do.

The reason I carry everywhere regardless of the sign on the door is this. Let's use Buffalo Wild Wings as an example since they are gun free zones. Say I'm sitting there with my wife and kids eating dinner as we do a few times a year. And say a guy walks in and starts shooting the place up. If I left my gun in the car I'm helpless, possibly dead. If I take my gun in (like I always do) and someone comes in shooting, Ive got a chance of stopping him and saving my life, my families lives, other diners, and restaraunt employees. I will absolutely gurantee you this. Regardless of being a gun free zone, the survivors will be grateful and not concerned one bit about a guy who passed a federal background check in the restaraunt with a carry license who stopped a threat against them.

Besides if they see your gun all they can do is ask you to leave. If you refuse then the cops will be involved and you will be escorted off the property and that will be the end of it.

I carry a ruger LCP in a pocket holster. You couldn't tell it was there even if you knew I had it.

[ironchop]

I won't say I ignore the signs on the door as Hoosierlogger does, but let's just say I "don't look for them to begin with"....I've never been much on following all the rules.

I also have been asked to leave a place when my gun became visible and I politely left because I believe in the business owners right of refusal on his own property above all.

I'll say it doesn't stop me from just being more discreet. I'll never pack into a school or any government office but then again, I'm rarely in any of those circumstances much these says

Non gun owners would be floored if they really knew how often they are in public presence of a concealed firearms and never knew a thing

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[knappyfeet]

In the state of California it feels like a misdemeanor if you look at a firearm and a felony if you touch one.........at least in urban areas.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I fully understand you both Hoosier and Chop, can't say I disagree with either comment.

[bkm]

In Missouri, if a store owner who prohibits weapons in or on their property and "sees" that you have a weapon and calls the police, I can only ask that you leave. If you return or refuse to leave, then you will be subject to Tresspasing violations. There is no weapons law in Missouri pertaining to carring on private property against an owners wishes or posted signage.

[Bren_downe]

You don't need a permit in Maine to carry a concealed weapon. Just thought I'd throw that out there in case anyone is thinking of moving.
http://www.maine.gov/dps/msp/license...s_permits.html

[El Camexican]

Think about it........they already won. I mean...if causing chaos in America was the goal....

THANK YOU!!! I have been saying this since having to fly right after 911. The bad guys were smart enough to know that the Western world would implode due to its knee jerk reactions and political correctness. And the scum bag politicians played right into it, why wouldn't they? It was a chance for them to make the biggest information grab in modern history and remove a pile of liberties and freedoms at the same time. They have more control and more information about us than even J.E. Hoover could have ever dreamt of.

Have you flown in the US lately? 3 hours check in times, thank you TSA for taking a good long look up granny's skirt! We are headed the way of Turkey and India (to name a few) where checking into a hotel is like an airport screening and bomb dogs are used as you pull off the street in your cab. If this was a game and I was a judge I'd say the terrorists are kicking our asses... because we are letting them! They are now being breed on American soil because of PC crap. The libs will tell you the answer is to get "Have you hugged a Terrorist today?" bumper stickers. I think something more along the lines of Queen Isabella of Spain is in order.

Fox News reported yesterday that this murderer's mosque has churned out three American born suicide mission takers... and it's still open! WTF??? It's a crime scene! How about the murderer's father? Has he shed a tear yet during is 1,500 minutes of fame? I haven't seen one. All his BS is contrary to his Internet postings. The apple doesn't fall that far from the tree. Who taught the kid to hate Americans?

All I know for sure is that this is just the beginning, it's going to get a lot worse.

[redsox]

Red,,, i agree with your logic, (as usual) but i'd like to pose a question. Can guns be "legislatively" banned? Its a slippery slope. Here's the logic. Your house. Private property for sure. You call the shots. You don't allow me to carry there, you can toss me at anytime. No problem... Now, how about semi-public events? Fenway Park? Bruce Springsteen/Bon Jovi/Liz Warren concert. Ticketed events. Its open to the public, but you must buy a ticket and agree to rules set forth on said ticket. its not an open door policy. Ok, no problem. Next step is an "open to the public" business. Starbucks? Chuck E Cheese? McDonalds? Can they stop me from legally carrying? I think you're telling me that they can. I would disagree at this stage, but maybe i'm wrong. Lets go further. What about a condo association or a cul de sac? What if they all got together and decided "no guns!" Its an association. They own the place. Can they institute a ban? Lets go further. A small town. Can the town council "ban" gun ownership? If it was put to a vote, and it was 99 to 1 against ownership, can the town ban the 1? I'd say no, because of 2A. But i said no 2 steps ago. Keep expanding. City. County. State. Country. Soon its over and it just a ban..... See the logic? I say it ends at private residence. Yankee Stadium cannot say "We're private, we don't want asians." Then the same rules apply. They can't say "We're private, we don't want legally licensed gun carriers." Am I wrong?

[Mosh]

It is obvious nobody can "stop" anybody from carrying anywhere, or we would not even be talking about this right now. However, it is about the reprocussions if you get caught in a gun free zone. Every state has a different policy. In Ohio you go into a church or school carrying and get busted you WILL go to prision. The difference is the nut jobs do not care and have nothing to lose to get their agenda done.
Even if you did take down a hostile shooter, and you were illegally carrying while doing so, you are going to have to contend with. They always want SOMEBODY in jail, even if you saved the day.
Look at the Zimmerman went through in his first trial just to be found innocent and then ulimately shot someone again and wound up in jail anyway, which brings me to that next point below.

I own a business and welcome carrying but do not invite it or deter it, however I have said it before, there are a lot of Johnny do gooders out there that should NOT be carrying a firearm. They just do not have the mental fortitude, nor the experience 50% of the time. IMO if you are not firing 100 hundred rounds a month or more, in a panic situation all a guy is gonna do is miss the target and possibly injur others.

I have also stated before, I really like the "lets kick thier ass attitude, " or this " I am carrying so I will protect the flock idea in my resturant" but be realistic. Your chances of taking down a shooter equipped with a AR 10 or AR 15 with a 7-10 shot semi auto pistol is going to be pretty damn slim unless you can sneak up around his back and surprise ambush him. If you wanna argue that with me, than you agree with the policy makers that they should take the AR platforms from citizens, while the military can keep using them. Armed citizens will do so well with revolvers and 12 gauge shotguns, and bolt action rifles, against a mitlita armed with full auto rifles correct?

BW3 had a no carry policy here too. I gave them a card stating I will give them no business and not refer friends and family to there for the future. 6 months later the sign was taken down and they now allow carrying at my local one. I have called and alerted multiple businesses and had success getting them to reverse the policy, and that will get easier I think as these attacks keep happening. There are situations where a CCW person thwarts crimes quite regularly and properly reported, would really help arguments against the" no carry nazis"...
However, no blood or no drama stories do not shock or sell, so It becomes a bare mention in the paper, or a silent fart on TV, and they move right on to the something more shocking or riveting for the audience. Nobody cares if a car jacker got arrested becuase you held them at gunpoint til the cops arrived and it was over..

In Ohio, you go to prision for violating carry procedures, so I follow them to the letter. If I can't carry, I do not go, or if I have to go, I get in and gtfo asap.

[atc300r]

It makes me laugh that most people see the gun as the problem not the person behind it in these shootings.