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Thread: Guns n' Gays...

  1. #31
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosh View Post
    It is obvious nobody can "stop" anybody from carrying anywhere, or we would not even be talking about this right now. However, it is about the reprocussions if you get caught in a gun free zone. Every state has a different policy. In Ohio you go into a church or school carrying and get busted you WILL go to prision. The difference is the nut jobs do not care and have nothing to lose to get their agenda done.
    Even if you did take down a hostile shooter, and you were illegally carrying while doing so, you are going to have to contend with. They always want SOMEBODY in jail, even if you saved the day.
    Look at the Zimmerman went through in his first trial just to be found innocent and then ulimately shot someone again and wound up in jail anyway, which brings me to that next point below.

    I own a business and welcome carrying but do not invite it or deter it, however I have said it before, there are a lot of Johnny do gooders out there that should NOT be carrying a firearm. They just do not have the mental fortitude, nor the experience 50% of the time. IMO if you are not firing 100 hundred rounds a month or more, in a panic situation all a guy is gonna do is miss the target and possibly injur others.

    I have also stated before, I really like the "lets kick thier ass attitude, " or this " I am carrying so I will protect the flock idea in my resturant" but be realistic. Your chances of taking down a shooter equipped with a AR 10 or AR 15 with a 7-10 shot semi auto pistol is going to be pretty damn slim unless you can sneak up around his back and surprise ambush him. If you wanna argue that with me, than you agree with the policy makers that they should take the AR platforms from citizens, while the military can keep using them. Armed citizens will do so well with revolvers and 12 gauge shotguns, and bolt action rifles, against a mitlita armed with full auto rifles correct?

    BW3 had a no carry policy here too. I gave them a card stating I will give them no business and not refer friends and family to there for the future. 6 months later the sign was taken down and they now allow carrying at my local one. I have called and alerted multiple businesses and had success getting them to reverse the policy, and that will get easier I think as these attacks keep happening. There are situations where a CCW person thwarts crimes quite regularly and properly reported, would really help arguments against the" no carry nazis"...
    However, no blood or no drama stories do not shock or sell, so It becomes a bare mention in the paper, or a silent fart on TV, and they move right on to the something more shocking or riveting for the audience. Nobody cares if a car jacker got arrested becuase you held them at gunpoint til the cops arrived and it was over..

    In Ohio, you go to prision for violating carry procedures, so I follow them to the letter. If I can't carry, I do not go, or if I have to go, I get in and gtfo asap.
    When I got my CCW in Indiana, all I was required to do is send two separate blank money orders to the State Police and the Statehouse and pass their background check. No classes.

    Here in KY, its a two day course on weapon manipulation (how to operate a firearm safely), required cleaning and disassembly is covered, target practice, and legality on self defense situations with a firearm. I like this ALOT better than Indiana's requirements (may have changed. I had my CCW there from '94 to '02)

    I also agree that there are people out there lawfully carrying a gun who are neither trained properly nor mature enough to be carrying a gun. I know some folks like this.

    I also agree that handguns require much more marksmanship to operate safely in public and to ensure innocent ppl don't get shot while someone is "trying to help". Handguns , especially the compact semi-autos everyone loves to buy, are NOTORIOUSLY inaccurate in untrained hands. Small pistol, semi-autos, short barrel is like the trifecta of misplaced shots. Lesser skilled should buy single action revolver like a SW Air weight. Everyone needs to train but semi-autos require greater hand and trigger control to be accurate and this is critical in a City Park or a crowded restaurant. Carrying is not for everyone. Most ppl realize this and opt out but you are still going to get a few wing nuts in the nail bag.

    This country used to be raised to respect the firearm.

    We are now indoctrinated to fear it and fantasize about spraying down a room full of ppl we dislike with it.

    It was once a symbol of respect, freedom, justice, and personal responsibility.

    Now the gun is a symbol of crime, control, power, hatred, cleansing, death, and video game fantasy.

    Thirdly I agree that citizens with revolvers, pocket pistols, and shotguns don't stand a chance against a mediocre AR15 shooter. This is precisely why they want to villify and ban them so much. Handguns kill exponentially more people than rifles every year and even more than by "assault rifles"

    Can you imagine if the Left media operated on facts? Handguns would be the new national symbol of racism and would be pulled from shelves faster than a Confederate battle flag. They aren't stupid. The statistics are right there in front of them, they just ignore handgun deaths when they are quoting these stats conveniently. Handguns are responsible for somewhere near 90% of ALL American firearm deaths. "Assault rifles" are less than 1%.

    No there's a reason that they want no more hicap mags and no more "assault rifles" and it has NOTHING to do with public safety. It has everything to do with the safety of the people that they plan to hide behind when they are trying to desperately hold onto power once the masses start to see through the lies, corruption, and plotting and completely lose it alà French Revolution.

    This focus on hicap and assault is meant to protect Them. We are not Them. They only see Us as useful idiots and worker bees.

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  3. #33
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  4. #34
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    One thing I would like to add is that in some states the 'gun free zone' signs carry the force of law. In other states, such as Pennsylvania, they do not.
    I personally don't look for signs on doors, but in PA, if a person does walk past a sign it isn't a crime.
    Now if the owner asks the person to leave, and they stay, they are illegally trespassing and could be cited at that point.
    In any case, if you are truly concealed, nobody will ever know. I have never been frisked walking into a Buffalo Wild Wings (which I no longer patronize BTW).

    Every state has different laws, and keeping up with them is somewhat of a nightmare.
    In PA you are permitted to carry in establishments that serve alcohol. As I understand, that is not permitted in Florida.
    In Texas, there are even laws regarding the verbiage and placement of these gun free zone signs. Oddly enough, that statute is 30.06, which I find quite amusing.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironchop View Post

    I also agree that handguns require much more marksmanship to operate safely in public and to ensure innocent ppl don't get shot while someone is "trying to help". Handguns , especially the compact semi-autos everyone loves to buy, are NOTORIOUSLY inaccurate in untrained hands. Small pistol, semi-autos, short barrel is like the trifecta of misplaced shots. Lesser skilled should buy single action revolver like a SW Air weight. Everyone needs to train but semi-autos require greater hand and trigger control to be accurate and this is critical in a City Park or a crowded restaurant. Carrying is not for everyone. Most ppl realize this and opt out but you are still going to get a few wing nuts in the nail bag.
    This. Give me my no name cheap 6" .357 revolver, i could hit bottles on a lake at 35 yards all day long.

    Put a Ruger LCP in my hands and if i ever had to use it, someone, if not everyone, but the shooter and myself will be hurt or killed. I'd be better off throwing it at them.


    As stated before, the good firearms do in real life situations is nowhere near as dramatic and newsworthy as a shooter in a nightclub.

    What the news, and people in general fail to recognize is that guns serve different purposes and they tend to buy what they want, what's trendy, instead of what they need
    Its easy to say oh i want that gun, or i want this gun and there's nothing wrong with that at all, nothing wrong with fun guns for fun shooting! Reality is, when the SHTF, i myself need a bolt action rifle. I'm comfortable and confident and sure of my actions when shooting bolt rifles. AR-15s are nice, and i understand the appeal as well as supporting everyone's right to own one and i believe everyone should but they should also be proficient with that weapon. I know too many people that carry a gun just to make themselves feel bigger and that's the kind of thinking that will leave you dead.

    I don't carry, or own an AR-15.

    I also see a lot of fishy business surrounding this nightclub shooting. But everybody jumps on the lets talk about it bandwagon, as expected from our leaders, instead of waiting on the "lets do something about it" bandwagon. One man with an AR might be a terrorist. But what will they label 10,000?

    Lets all rant and rave about this on facebook and in the news until we're almost tired of talking about it, and about that time something new and more exciting and liberty stripping comes along...Anyone else seen a pattern here in the last, coincidentally, 8 years?
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by redsox View Post
    Red,,, i agree with your logic, (as usual) but i'd like to pose a question. Can guns be "legislatively" banned? Its a slippery slope. Here's the logic. Your house. Private property for sure. You call the shots. You don't allow me to carry there, you can toss me at anytime. No problem... Now, how about semi-public events? Fenway Park? Bruce Springsteen/Bon Jovi/Liz Warren concert. Ticketed events. Its open to the public, but you must buy a ticket and agree to rules set forth on said ticket. its not an open door policy. Ok, no problem. Next step is an "open to the public" business. Starbucks? Chuck E Cheese? McDonalds? Can they stop me from legally carrying? I think you're telling me that they can. I would disagree at this stage, but maybe i'm wrong. Lets go further. What about a condo association or a cul de sac? What if they all got together and decided "no guns!" Its an association. They own the place. Can they institute a ban? Lets go further. A small town. Can the town council "ban" gun ownership? If it was put to a vote, and it was 99 to 1 against ownership, can the town ban the 1? I'd say no, because of 2A. But i said no 2 steps ago. Keep expanding. City. County. State. Country. Soon its over and it just a ban..... See the logic? I say it ends at private residence. Yankee Stadium cannot say "We're private, we don't want asians." Then the same rules apply. They can't say "We're private, we don't want legally licensed gun carriers." Am I wrong?
    Well the way I see it, legislators can write, vote on, and pass almost any crazy piece of legislation they wish. And the executive can sign it into law or veto. I give you the wonderful POS that is the NY (UN) Safe Act of 2013. Once this happens and a wackjob law is enacted, it is now up to the state or federal supreme court to rule on it's constitutionality. It sucks that our liberty can be so easily stripped only to have one hell of an uphill battle in court after court to wipe unconstitutional laws off the books. As to local, county, and state governments passing unconstitutional gun bans, they most certainly can. And if/when they do, now you have to fight it out in court after court. Because whatever the ruling is from one level of the court, the losing side will ALWAYS and without fail appeal to the next higher court untill it finally makes it's way to SCOTUS. Again, I give you NY's Safe act as an example. NYS does not allow whatever the federal ATF issued license it is that allows a person to own and fire fully automatic weapons (class 1 if I'm not mistaken). ATF may/will issue the license if state and local laws allow, which in the case of my craphole state, it does not.

    So in short YES, they can and do pass unconstitutional legislation and have already concerning firearms ownership in my state.

    Now onto the other scenarios... Yankee stadium, Starbucks, etc are all still private property despite the fact they are "open to the public". And it's my opinion (that I would like to think is fairly well informed) that the owners of those properties still retain the right to ban the carrying of weapons on that property, as much as I wholeheartedly disagree with the barring of legal carry.

    I think things get dicey with condos/apartments and the like. On one hand there is the property owner, and on the other you have the tenant whose domicile is said living space owned by the landlord. I am honestly not sure how the cookie crumbles in that situation, unless a no weapons policy is specifically expressed in the lease agreement and the tenant agrees to it by signing it. When you agree to a set of terms by signing your name on it, that is a legal binding contract. And if you violate that contract, you are accountable despite what your constitutional rights. How many times have you signed something that states "by your signature, you agree to these terms".

    Onto concert venues: You are absolutely correct in that by purchasing that ticket, you agree to the rules and policies set forth by the ownership of the venue. Now if Bruce Springsteen just demands that nobody carry a weapon at one of his concerts, it is an empty demand. BUT, if he requests such a rule from the venue ownership and they comply, thereby establishing a no weapons policy, then it is now a term of the agreement you "sign to" by purchasing that ticket. It's just like bag searches and metal detectors at large sporting venues and the like... Under the bill of rights, you are not to be subjected to unlawful search.. BUT, a property owner CAN set this requirement for admission into/onto the property. If you refuse to go through the metal detector at the ballpark, guess what, you won't be let in and you have zero legal recourse.

    Homeowners associations: can pound salt IMHO... What are they going to do, try to subject you to searches of your home and property that YOU own to make sure you don't own any firearms??? No way, not going to happen.....

    Anyway, running very long here... There are alot of facets to this conversation.
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  7. #37
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    I was listening to Mark Levin last night and he said when he was 20 years old, he met with a senator from Nevada and during the course of his conversation the senator told him every time congress gets together, you lose a little more of your freedom.

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  8. #38
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  9. #39
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    ETA: This is a big game changer for the fall elections and the liberal news media knows it. Ninety five percent of the news media is the democrap party. All of their candidates have been preaching to us that Islam is the religion of peace, we need to leave the boarders open, do not deport illegals, and we have to import tens of thousands of refugees from Syria into our country with little or no background checks.

    Liberals are in panic mode and they will be blaming the shooting on everything but fanatic Muslims.

    This happened because the government did not do their job of keeping America safe! I don't give a sh!t if it's because of "political correctness", or whatever other bullsh!t idea they want to try to feed us. This guy was on their radar, on their list, and they let him go. Hildebeasts State Department told the FBI to stand down on investigating the mosque he belonged to, the same mosque that produced at least 2 other radicals. Now they have to blame something other than themselves.
    Last edited by Scootertrash; 06-15-2016 at 07:47 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by fabiodriven View Post
    Trick the people into thinking they're enacting their own will and you have willing slaves.

    Liberalism suspends the intellect of its victims, while at the same time tricking them into believing that they're smarter than everyone else.


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  10. #40
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  11. #41
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    We are asked not to judge all muslims by the acts of a few extremists, but we are encouraged to judge all gun owners by extreme acts of the few.

    According to what they tell us, there is only 5% of the islamic religion that is radical. Whew!! I can sleep better now!! I feel safer already!! Wait, there are reportedly 1 billion muslims in the world, 5% of 1 billion....50 million crazies are trying to kill us!!

    5% may be Radical but consider that fully 53% of moderate Muslims worldwide believe the Sharia Law is right, good and above all other laws. (Pew Research Survey.)
    That means a half a billion moderate Muslims believe in Honor killings (among other atrocities.)

    To give an idea what this is about, Islam believes their Mahdi can only come back to rule the world in shariah law, in the middle of great turmoil in the world. This is their way of stirring the turds. They already want to come to our country and live under their own law, even if it does not agree with the laws of our country. And political correctness is being used against the country, and its people for their cause.

    All you need to do is look to Europe to see what will happen. Only a fool could think otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fabiodriven View Post
    Trick the people into thinking they're enacting their own will and you have willing slaves.

    Liberalism suspends the intellect of its victims, while at the same time tricking them into believing that they're smarter than everyone else.


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  12. #42
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    Well to touch on the skill set I've said it before and I'll say it again: Punching paper at the range once every few months does not mean you will be conditioned to engage an active shooter with the same accuracy…in fact, chances are your body will be in code red and you will lose all fine motor skill…prob won't be able to deactivate the safety…or maybe even get it out of the holster. I'm a huge proponent of having to take classes and pass a test before receiving a CCW. Everyone is right that shorter barrels/grips and lighter weight drastically decreases accuracy. For this reason I prefer compact 1911's in .45. Less comfortable to carry, but heavy enough to quickly balance and acquire a target. Also, in a CQC situation you shouldn't be training to use your sights at less than 10-15 yds…which makes range training even more bunk. You should be practicing regularly drawing from the holster then using the point-and-shoot technique (almost like passing a basketball if that makes sense…holster to chest to target).

    All this stuff is scary for our freedom. Don't these people know that the 2nd Amendment is the RIGHT to carry arms…not an obsolete document subject to modification?

    Furthermore, why don't many of these shootings occur in areas where people are known to carry? Oh yeah, because that would mean resistance. Hmmm… "Gun free zone"=easy target…

    Has anyone heard anything about some eyewitnesses claiming that there were up to 5 gunmen? Port Arthur and Sandy Hook have questionable happenings as well. NWO agenda? Who knows…Oh crap, I think these words may have flagged me on the FBI watch list…better disarm me in the name of national security:/
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by knappyfeet View Post
    In the state of California it feels like a misdemeanor if you look at a firearm and a felony if you touch one.........at least in urban areas.

    Sounds like a warmer version of Canada!
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  14. #44
    Mosh is offline I'm the one with all the 2 stroke around here! The day begins with 3WW
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    Regarding Joes questioning on tennants, Home asscociations, leases, business lease, etc...
    In Ohio, it is illegal for any landowner engaed in any kind of rental agreement or contract with a tennant landlord relationship to prohibit the tenants from keeping firearms on the renters property..In other words, the landlord cannot make your rented area a gun free zone, without specifically getting it in writing in the lease agreement and signed by the tennant.

    See this is the damn problem. There is too many variances in laws from state to state. The 2A is a country wide ammendment. It needs federally protected, and a set of fedreal 50 state wide guidelines that impose the same specifics for obtaining and owning regulations.

    In one state you need a urine and stool sample to get a gun, another state, you can't carry here or there. Another state you can almost get one from a vending machine.
    It is chaos and disaray. If our driving laws varied like our gun policies state to state, there would be pile ups all over the place.

    It is time to repeal these BS gun control policies on the books, and start over. Scrutinize the person not the machine..
    Personally, everybody from here on out needs to go through the same guidelines state to state, and that should include at least 30- 40 hours of gun training, and emotional evaluation courses to receieve a liscense to own and carry a firearm anywhere in the 50 states. Many nut jobs would not even bother, and most lazy people would not either. And it should have a renewal process every 5 years to keep the license current. Immigrants are forbidden to own firearms EVER..Too bad. You already left your straw hut next to a river, get free health care and live tax free, so deal with it.
    These idiots are going after specifics on machines and trying to ban them, while throwing terms like, clips, mags, assualt rifles, around in the wrong context, and the dumbasses probaby cant even tell which end of the firearm is safe to point downrange.
    Here is where my long useless list of stuff nobody cares about should go...


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