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Thread: 1982 ATC 200 rebuild&upgrade experts help!

  1. #31
    barnett468 is offline FACT ! I have no edit button Arm chair racerThe day begins with 3WW
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    No prob your welcome . I try to give a bit of tech info as to how things work instead of just telling people to use this or that part because it helps them learn.

    As far as the gasket kit goes, I would not use it simply because you already bought it . If cometic can make a thick enough head gasket to raise it up as much as you need I would use one of those instead . The more things you put under the cylinder, the greater the risk of them leaking so if you g that route, I would use a sealer between each piece . Some good ones are gaskacinch, yamabond, black or gray high temp ultra permatex but it needs to be put on thin . if you use gaskacinch, you may have to use a sledge to remove the cylinder next time and an air chisel (or gasket scraper) to remove the gasket.

    you can get a shim made at one of the companies i listed below cometic but it too may be pricey.

    you can certainly just use more base gaskets as shortline10 mentioned and as i said, it may not leak but that would not be my first choice but it definitely is the fastest and easiest and cheapest.

    the did chain is top notch

    explaining how to check the rod bearing is nearly useless in my opinion because it is more of an acquired skill so i really don't have a good suggestion for you there.

    the copper head gasket will only compress a few thousands at the most and they are reuseable . i have reused them several times on the same engine on my race bikes but i would anneal them after each use . it also meeds a fairly smooth surface to seal properly.

    if your compression is over around 190, i would use a spark plug that is 1 step colder than stock.

    you dont "need" race gas unless you are racing it . you can buy real lead additive and it may end up costing less depending on the cost of the race gas and how much additive you need.

    http://www.wildbillscorvette.com/octanesupreme01a.htm

    http://www.wildbillscorvette.com/OctaneSupreme01.htm


    PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

  2. #32
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    Oct 2016
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    Ok, I attempted to check the rod bearing. I've put a link to the video below. I assume you're checking for .8mm between the rod and counterweights. I could only fit .4mm feeler gauge in there. The rod will rock side to side and hit those thrust washers as seen in the vid. It has no up and down play. Is this ok?

    http://s844.photobucket.com/user/cbc...jn9ra.mp4.html

  3. #33
    barnett468 is offline FACT ! I have no edit button Arm chair racerThe day begins with 3WW
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    The most important clearance on a used crank is the up and down play, not the side to side play and the up and down play is the one that is the most difficult to check . .4mm of clearance on the sides is acceptable.


    PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-lab View Post
    Ok, I attempted to check the rod bearing. I've put a link to the video below. I assume you're checking for .8mm between the rod and counterweights. I could only fit .4mm feeler gauge in there. The rod will rock side to side and hit those thrust washers as seen in the vid. It has no up and down play. Is this ok?

    http://s844.photobucket.com/user/cbc...jn9ra.mp4.html

    Yep, you are good to go.
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  5. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    Lexington, NC
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    I'm going to bump this to the top and let everyone know that within the next two weeks, you should see some updates with pics. Life got crazy and I haven't been working on the trike. I also got a 200X that has taken some of my time with small projects. Thanks again for the help so far.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    Lexington, NC
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    Well, life happened and I didn't get back to work on this nearly as quick as I thought. But I've got it mostly back together right now and I have a couple questions for the experts before I go any further.

    First, I got the Kibble White upgraded valve springs since I'm upgrading the cam. They came with a package of two thick shims to go underneath and they are the large diameter ones for the outer springs. It didn't have any for the inner. I reused the stock inner and used the thicker outer, without the originals. Was this correct?

    Also, after I got the motor reassembled, I noticed this clip. I guess you'd call it a snap ring. I don't remember removing it and I'm wondering if anyone recognizes it from the pic. I disassembled the top end months ago, then split the cases Monday night to replace some oil seals. I'm thinking one of three things. Either I removed when I took off the top end and forgot about it. (I can't remember what the clips look like that retain the wrist pins and this is the only place in the top end I imagine it could go.) Or, I accidentally popped it out from somewhere when I split the cases without realizing it. Or, it's from another project over the last couple months and I've forgotten what it is. Or possibly from one of my brother's projects, but I don't think that is likely.

    As I type this I realize that I'm acting like a rookie, even though I'm not. (I am to three wheelers, but not mechanics in general.) I should have been more thorough and then I wouldn't be asking this question. I don't remember doing anything to take the piston loose, which is why I didn't check those clips when I was putting it back together. I'm thinking now that is probably where it goes. If no one responds before I work on it again, I'll tear it down to see.


  7. #37
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    That would be the circlip for your piston/wrist pin. Did you put both circlips back in?
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  8. #38
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    Thanks, yaegerb. Turns out I made myself look like an idiot for nothing. The new piston came with new circlips, of course. This is one of the old ones. The inside lip that would've been exposed has some old oil cooked onto it. I was surprised that I would've made a bonehead move like that, but with the long time in between, I thought it was possible. Man, I'm so glad I don't have to tear this thing right back down. Thanks again for the help.

    Also, I looked back and saw the reference you gave me for jets in my TM28 carb. This will be my first time tuning a carb. I've read some resources online for how to go about the tuning and have seen some differences between them. Is there a consensus here on the best way to tune the carb? I'd appreciate where to find that method, if so.

    Like as an example, one method started by removing the main jet, leaving the needle clip in the middle position. Then, see if it runs clean to 3/4 throttle and adjust or replace the needle as needed. Then work on getting the pilot right by adjusting the air screw and seeing how the engine responds. Last, you reinstall the main jet and change sizes as needed to correct the rich condition from 3/4 to full throttle that you had with the main out completely.

    Does any of that sound like a good approach? Or is it all crazy talk?

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    Lexington, NC
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    Alright; so I got the motor buttoned up and slapped it in last night. This is the first time trying to run it with the new TM28 carb. I couldn't get it to run which didn't surprise me too much. As all of you know who have run the 12:1 piston, it is a bear to pull. I'm planning to pull it behind my truck tonight and save my arms. I'm questioning wether or not even that will be enough to crank it because I think my pilot jet is way off. I have a 15 pilot and 180 main in my 28mm flat slide. If I remember right, yaegerb is running a 30 pilot and 170 main in his 28mm round slide. I first left all the settings like they were, right out of the box. I flipped up the choke and gave it a try. Then I upped the idle screw a bit, since I didn't know where it was set at. Then I ran the air screw all the way in. It was 2 3/4 turns out. I was hoping that by doing all of this I could get enough fuel in to overcome the tiny 15 pilot jet. It was close to 80 degrees in my shop so it wouldn't hardly need the choke if the carb settings were right. The way I understand how this choke works is it just adds extra fuel instead of shutting off most of the air. I would think that would be enough to get it cranked but I'm a carb and three wheeler newbie. What do you ATC gurus think? Should I just not mess with it till the jets that I ordered come in? Or if I play with it is it likely to roll start just fine?

    Here's how she sits right now.




  10. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    Is it popping and acting like it wants to start?
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  11. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    Lexington, NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by yaegerb View Post
    Is it popping and acting like it wants to start?
    No sir. I figured out why last night. It seemed harder to pull than before, even once it had the high comp piston in it. It felt like it had a lot of drag, even when it wasn't on the compression stroke. I couldn't get any rpm on it, even though I'm a pretty strong guy.

    While I was cleaning out the crankcase after splitting it apart, I let 3 of the tranny gears slide off. I didn't pay attention to the fact that they weren't retained on the shafts. I thought that I put them back in the same order and orientation, but clearly I was wrong. Neutral isn't really neutral anymore. The tires will roll backward but not forward. It will click down to first gear and sometimes second, although those aren't working right either. I think that the tranny gears are creating extra drag. Well, looks like I'll be tearing everything back apart since I'm a goober. Oh well.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    Btw, I found the other retainer clip for the wrist pin which confirms that it was just the old one I found.

    Sorry I didn't respond sooner. I was in a hurry to head out to the Hatfield McCoy trails in WV this weekend. Since I didn't get this one going I just took the 200X, which sadly had no rear brakes. The snap ring in the master broke so I rebuilt it but still couldn't get it to work right. Guess I have a long way to go in learning to work on these ATC's.

  13. #43
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    Don't worry about it much. I know that it's frustrating, but we all have to learn somehow. Look at the bright side, by the time that you get the transmission gears straightened out, your jets will be in and you should be able to start it by hand.

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