Time to see what all the Tecate hype is about?

[barnett468]

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In "FACT", the T4's handling is so incredibly bad that Honda could have designed a better on with their eyes CLOSED.



PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR BUT NOT THE DESIGNER OF THE T4

[El Camexican]

Hi christph;

The story regarding the T4 is actually a VERY long one and I don't want to side track Red Riders thread regarding "The TECATE....The Most Powerful 3 Wheeler In The World!" with it so I will make this short for now . The handling was the only major issue . The single biggest problems are that it is too narrow and too short and the weight is biased too much to the front, so after some calculating I cured both of these problems by literally cutting the frame in half with a saw forward of the engine and lengthening it by around 1 1/2" . This may not sound like much of a change but it made a huge difference and huge improvement, and along with increasing the suspension stiffness, it finally allowed us to test it much more safely at much higher speeds.

We also had FIVE different people testing it at the same time from US R and D at one point just to prove to the project mgr and engineers from Japan that my modified version was far superior to theirs . In fact, with the exception of the 4 foot tall 90 pound rider that was the test rider for the bike in Japan, EVERYONE from the US went much faster on it (like around 10 seconds a lap) and 3 of the US testers had never even ridden a high perf 4 wheeler like the Suzuki before, however, their slow ass bozo "expert" rider from Japan whom could barely beat our novice riders went SLOWER on the modified bike . Well, I'm not saying that he intentionally went slower on my modified version to save himself from being transferred to the noodle factory also but it sure seemed more than a little odd to all of us in the US.

I was also planned to widen the track by around 1 - 1 1/2" but needed to test the longer chassis first to see exactly what affect that would have but after that was tested the clown in charge packed the bike up and went home and finished the "testing" there.

There were also a few ergonomic and ground clearance issues but these were insignificant by comparison to the massive handling issues . At the request of the head of all R and D in the US, I made a very lengthy report containing the test results and conclusions and exact detailed measurements/specs to improve all the areas of the bike we felt needed changing to make it acceptable to us.

The engine and gearing in the prototype was superb and I only planned minor changes to test.

Anyway, against EVERYONE'S wishes at US R and D, the clown from Japan made absolutely zero significant changes and the production bike is basically identical to the pos prototype.

This being said, if you are 4 feet tall and want a miniature 4 wheeler that is capable of turning on a dime and hurling the knobs off of the tires at will with a mere twist of the throttle, it is a great bike....as log as you don't plan on riding it faster than around 20 mph over moderately rough terrain, in which case you should make sure your insurance policy includes an accidental death clause.

They also asked me to build a T4 from a stock 85 Tecate using as many of the Tecate parts as possible which I did and it too handled far better than the T4 prototype and weighed around 20 lbs less but they killed the project partially because they eventually decided they didn't want to build two similar 4 wheelers that would be competing against each other for sales.





I too love the styling of the 86/87 T3 compared to the "agricultural" look of the previous years but that styling was all done in Japan and we made only very minor changes to it in the US so we can't take any credit for that nor did any of us in the US care who got credit for anything since we believed that bike development was a TEAM effort, but unfortunately R and D in Japan seemed to share this concept less and less as time went by and I would be surprised if Kawasaki even still has a "real" R and D department in the US any longer.



PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

Geewhiz Barnes, couldn't you have just called up that head honcho Japanese drinking buddy of yours and gotten this sorted out?

[Red Rider]

My friend says he wants to go ahead and clean this Tecate up "the right way", regardless of how it runs. He's confident though, that the power-valve issues I've uncovered will make this thing untouchable, once corrected. As for what the end result will be, he wants a green version of my ATCR 250R, so try picturing that. This will be a slow clean up, that will progress as his money rolls in.

[Red Rider]

Not a whole lot of visible progress lately, but I did get the engine pulled out of the frame yesterday. I'm not sure if Tecates suffer from frozen swingarm pivot bolts, like a lot of Hondas do, but this one came out easily, probably because it was well lubed by the leaky transmission oil. After pulling the engine, I took it to the owner's shop, so he could do a lot of de-greasing, as I didn't want to hog all the fun to myself. When the grease & crud came off, so did most of the paint. Oh well, it was gonna get fresh paint anyway.

[nstyle73]

I am not sure about the Tecate swinger bolt; it may actually be one area that green is better than red. I have taken probably close to a dozen apart and never had one that was seized, but the two 250R's I have swapped swingers on both required cutting them out. For what its worth, the single biggest improvement I saw in my Tecate rebuilds were replacing all of the bearings in the bottom end. The two engines I rebuilt shift like butter, but the two that I currently have that have not had the bottom end apart, are not as smooth. I believe they are all still available OEM, probably cheaper if cross referenced to the actual manufacturer. Maybe the improvement is not all in the bearings, but I am no transmission guru, so its not something I did.

[Red Rider]

For what its worth, the single biggest improvement I saw in my Tecate rebuilds were replacing all of the bearings in the bottom end. The two engines I rebuilt shift like butter, but the two that I currently have that have not had the bottom end apart, are not as smooth.

Thanks nstyle. This one doesn't shift bad at all. I wouldn't necessarily say it shifts like buttah, but it doesn't feel notchy, or difficult to shift at all. After taking a closer look at the piston & cylinder, I'm not liking what I'm seeing. When I first took it apart, I noticed some scuffing on piston/cylinder skirts, but I didn't think it was too bad. The more I look at it though, there are some scuffed areas & some gouged areas all on the rear skirts, so I'm definitely leaning towards sending the cylinder out for stripping/bore repair/replate. I know my friend wants to keep the costs down, but all I need to tell him is, "If it was my 250R, it would not go back together like this", and he agrees to spend the money.

[OZQUAD44]

Similar experience with my Tecates, swing arm bolts came out easily.

Both transmissions shifted ok, so I never touched the transmission bearings.

Both needed new plastics, work on the ignition and replacement fuel tanks due to staining.


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[El Camexican]

Maybe the improvement is not all in the bearings, but I am no transmission guru, so its not something I did.

Loose bearings can affect shifting, but bent shift fork shafts, or damaged forks are a common cause. As many of those trikes were raced I'm guessing a lot of them have seen some pretty "forced" gear changes.

[Red Rider]

A little more progress today.

[OZQUAD44]

Good call on the cylinder red rider.

Is that seat black? Or is is just dirty? Same question on the swingarm


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[Red Rider]

Good call on the cylinder red rider.

Is that seat black? Or is is just dirty? Same question on the swingarm

Thanks OZQUAD. No, the seat is not black, it's just a grungy OEM seat. The swingarm is grungy as well, but it is black, and was identified as a first gen Tecate swingarm.

After getting the trike torn apart, the last few days have been spent cleaning up parts, bagging up & labeling parts, and referencing the parts fiches to compile a parts order from Kawasaki.

Besides Race Tech & onformula1, any suggestions on who to send the rear shock to for a rebuild. I need to get the shock cleaned up better, but so far it looks to be in rebuildable condition. I remember a few board members used to rebuild these, possibly sblt500r?

[OZQUAD44]

Yes and no, I know a guy in Wangara here in Perth Western Australia who used to race tecates back in the day who could rebuild that shock in a jiffy.

Of course that's about one million miles from you, so sorry, no I don't know of anyone in the states.


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[christph]

Schmidty Racing specializes in rebuilding atc shocks. Here is his website.

http://www.schmidtyracing.com/

[jb2wheels]

Good thread. Very entertaining. Thanks, guys!
Love my 85 T3. And my 85 R. And my 85 X.

[Red Rider]

The last few days have been spent cleaning up parts, but only a few hours a day, as that is about all I can stand. I just want to get to the point where I can handle them without getting grease all over me, and luckily, the end of the filthy parts is finally in sight. Last night, I decided to take a break from the super-greasy parts, so I worked on cleaning up the electrical components. All of the rubber boots & grommets were thoroughly cleaned, and then rejuvenated, including the rubber taillight mount, which looks brand new once again.

The taillight was missing the ground wire, so I soldered a new one to the light socket. While fixing the ground wire, I found a break in the positive wire's insulation, about 1" from the light socket, so that got a new wire as well. The previous owner(s) attacked the wiring harnesses with black electrical tape. I removed some near the broken taillight wiring, and found bare wires twisted together, and then taped up. All of the electrical tape near the taillight was removed. The corroded portions of the wires were then cut off, and the wires were soldered back together, and protected with heat-shrink tubing. An additional length of black heat-shrink tubing was then put over the repaired area, so it would blend in better with the original harness tubing. Before the Tecate was torn apart, the headlight was always on, as there was no ON/OFF switch, and the headlight was wired hot. Thus, the headlight socket end of this harness still has some electrical tape & issues to sort out, but I need to wait for the new headlight switch from Kawasaki to arrive before I can do so.

The wiring coming from the stator had tons of electrical tape all over it as well, so once again, I removed all of it, and found the same bare wires twisted together and taped back up. These wires were so corroded, I'm really surprised this thing ran at all. After the clean up, this wiring got the same treatment as the taillight wiring. With the wiring alone, I think I'll probably see about a 1/4 hp increase in performance.