'84 200es carb HELP!!

[miloman]

I recently inherited a 1984 Big Red 200es. At first it wouldn't start but then I had a friend drive an hour to my house to come and fix it and he got it going very well except for it wouldn't idle for more than 5-15 seconds before stalling and rode kind of jerky when going downhill. So in my amateur inspiration I tried to fix this problem by researching the issue and giving it a try myself. The first thing I tried was adjusting he "idle screw" on the side of the carburetor and everything was fine and I got the idea up to a good speed, but after I would drive it around then let off the gas it would continue to move for about a foot or so without me touching the throttle then stop. This wasn't a huge deal but my perfectionist mindset convinced me to try and fix this by doing more research online and I came to the conclusion that I needed to adjust the "pilot screw" or "air-fuel mixture screw" on the bottom front of the carb **here's where my problems start** and as I did this the engine died and now will not start at all, only cranks, I tried putting both the screws back to where they were originally before I touched them and it STILL won't do anything but crank/turn over and after I let it sit for about 24 hours and then tried it again it started briefly for about 2 1/2 seconds before dying again and now after more of the "pilot screw" adjustment it won't do anything once more. So here is where I sit totally stumped and just desire to get the darn hung running like it was before my perfectionist self decided to tinker, so please any help and advise would be greatly appreciated because I really don't want to ask my buddy to come drive an hour to my house just to fix something that I screwed up. Please help!!


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[miloman]

Anybody?!?!


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[yaegerb]

Time to rebuild the carb.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/Honda-ATC200ES...%257Ciid%253A1

[arlaunch]

Yes,

Watch D-Ray. This nice human puts out one of the finest line of how too videos i have ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-FFWrrzoN0

Don't fool around with old plugs either. Get a new one. Gap it. Clean your air-filter and change the oil.

Everybody wants to get one of these old things going for cheap.

They are a money pit.

It is a good idea to have a battery tender too. Actually it is necessary.

[Queef Chief]

Yes,

Watch D-Ray. This nice human puts out one of the finest line of how too videos i have ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-FFWrrzoN0

Don't fool around with old plugs either. Get a new one. Gap it. Clean your air-filter and change the oil.

Everybody wants to get one of these old things going for cheap.

They are a money pit.

It is a good idea to have a battery tender too. Actually it is necessary.

I have recommended D-Ray to people as well. He has a way of explaining ATV repair that any novice can easily understand.


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[miloman]

Thanks to all that have replied. I already changed the oil and watched D-Ray yesterday and the difference between the his videos and my atc is that his starts and he can adjust while idling but I can't even get it to start. Also I have replaced the spark plug and cleaned out the carb about 2 weeks ago


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[miloman]

Yes,

Watch D-Ray. This nice human puts out one of the finest line of how too videos i have ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-FFWrrzoN0

Don't fool around with old plugs either. Get a new one. Gap it. Clean your air-filter and change the oil.

Everybody wants to get one of these old things going for cheap.

They are a money pit.

It is a good idea to have a battery tender too. Actually it is necessary.

Thank you very much but I can't even get mine to start but he has that thing started and he can adjust the screws with no problem whereas when I barely touched my mixture screw it sent my atc into a sort of coma, it's still there and will work but I just need to reverse whatever I did


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[miloman]

UPDATE: I just tried starting it up again after about 12 or so hours and it fired for like 1 second which leads me to believe it's not getting enough of something. Ideas? I'm thinking about draining the carb and starting again


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[arlaunch]

This is a tough one,

I can't help much... Just share an experience for the sake of BS'ing on the forum. I bought my ATC 200ES not running. The guy said it ran 2 hours before i got there. I ended up cleaning the carb. It would not run. It would do the same thing. Start kind of. I thought since it ran i must have good spark.

Fast forward to a new Chinese carb. Boom.... LoL same crap. I check spark. (should have done this first) Intermittent at best.

Get new plug. Fires right up and runs perfect. Except for being a bit bigger carb and running way to rich up top. No problem for the rest of the summer.

Then it sits for awhile. The thing seems to be getting harder and harder to start and the plugs are bit dark. It always fired up though.

This winter i needed the thing and decided to get it running. It would not start. I likely got the starter hot a couple times trying too. I ended taking a wire brush to the plug to clean it off and rebuilt the factory carb with all OEM parts.

There i was, I pushed the start button for 1/4 second and it fired right up. It needed the usual adjustments.

Point being,

If the carb is clean and put together correctly it will fire up without countless seconds of killing your battery and starter.

I recommend declaring war on this thing.

Get the shop manual, and the owners manual out.

Find out every thing there is to know about its electrics. These things need to be in neutral, gas cap vent to open, switch to run, key on, fuel on. Pull your plug and let us know what color you are seeing.

Ensure that your fuel tank filter is not clogged and the carb is getting gas.

Drain the carb and ensure the carb bowl is holding fuel. That is a dead give away that the petcock filter is plugged.

Try to use only Non Ethanol fuel in these things.

Get OEM parts here: http://www.powersportsdiscount.com/o...c200es-a-parts

And please follow through with this post. So many get their machine running and then fade away.

Then people in your situation search and search a bunch of dead end crap threads....

Stay with us.

[miloman]

This is a tough one,

I can't help much... Just share an experience for the sake of BS'ing on the forum. I bought my ATC 200ES not running. The guy said it ran 2 hours before i got there. I ended up cleaning the carb. It would not run. It would do the same thing. Start kind of. I thought since it ran i must have good spark.

Fast forward to a new Chinese carb. Boom.... LoL same crap. I check spark. (should have done this first) Intermittent at best.

Get new plug. Fires right up and runs perfect. Except for being a bit bigger carb and running way to rich up top. No problem for the rest of the summer.

Then it sits for awhile. The thing seems to be getting harder and harder to start and the plugs are bit dark. It always fired up though.

This winter i needed the thing and decided to get it running. It would not start. I likely got the starter hot a couple times trying too. I ended taking a wire brush to the plug to clean it off and rebuilt the factory carb with all OEM parts.

There i was, I pushed the start button for 1/4 second and it fired right up. It needed the usual adjustments.

Point being,

If the carb is clean and put together correctly it will fire up without countless seconds of killing your battery and starter.

I recommend declaring war on this thing.

Get the shop manual, and the owners manual out.

Find out every thing there is to know about its electrics. These things need to be in neutral, gas cap vent to open, switch to run, key on, fuel on. Pull your plug and let us know what color you are seeing.

Ensure that your fuel tank filter is not clogged and the carb is getting gas.

Drain the carb and ensure the carb bowl is holding fuel. That is a dead give away that the petcock filter is plugged.

Try to use only Non Ethanol fuel in these things.

Get OEM parts here: http://www.powersportsdiscount.com/o...c200es-a-parts

And please follow through with this post. So many get their machine running and then fade away.

Then people in your situation search and search a bunch of dead end crap threads....

Stay with us.

Oh don't worry I will! I'm not the best versed in engines but I love using them ahaha. I called up my buddy and he said that I might have let loose some crap and clogged one of the jets when I adjusted the mixture screw and I'll just wait and try tomorrow and see if the damn thing will come back to life. When my buddy was around 2 weeks ago to initially help me get it running we cleaned the petcock valve and all and cleaned the jets (although one of them had a very small opening and I was wondering if it was supposed to be so, the carb is all original 1984 Honda). The carb works fine because I was riding the thing all around my yard Wednesday and then started it up fine on Thursday for about 10 seconds then began adjusting the mixture screw (very stupid I understand in hindsight). So I am just wondering what on earth I can to to get it back to normal or else I'll have to wait until early march when he can come by again and I'd like to use the thing before that. Thank you very much for your answer, very thorough. Oh and by the way the spark plug is sparkly matte black at the end and is producing a spark (it's new). And as a last note I have 0 leads in my tireless search to locate non ethanol gas and the lowest I could find was 10% ethanol and then I added some deadpan and a lil bit of Lucas ethanol stabilizer to my fuel can (any ideas when I can get non-ethanol in southeast PA? Thanks a ton!!!!!!


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[arlaunch]

You did not make a mistake by turning the idle mixture. All it is a tiny pin that rises up into the face of the carb. It is mind blowing that the thing does anything at all.

It is however complicating in a way to get it back in correctly. It seems i remember this little mini O'ring and maybe another fine part or so that have to fit up in there without getting jammed up.

This may be another area too look at if you take the carb apart?

Good luck!

[miloman]

You did not make a mistake by turning the idle mixture. All it is a tiny pin that rises up into the face of the carb. It is mind blowing that the thing does anything at all.

It is however complicating in a way to get it back in correctly. It seems i remember this little mini O'ring and maybe another fine part or so that have to fit up in there without getting jammed up.

This may be another area too look at if you take the carb apart?

Good luck!

Thanks! I have realized that it takes 8+ hours to try and restart it or else it will just turn over with no start, weird.


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[ironchop]

I like ar's advice....Keep it simple

Speaking of tank vents, did you unscrew the fuel tank cap to see if it would run? Sometimes even with the fuel cap vent switch to vent out, they get clogged and you get a vacuum that affects fuel to your bowl.

Have you checked compression? I've got a 200es in my garage that ran good but kinda weak for a week after we bought it and now it has no compression. A thumb over the plug hole isn't accurate as an engine could still have 100psi and yet not enough to fire it and run.

Sometimes you clean a carb really good but you miss one spec deep inside a passage between jets and it breaks free and gums up the jet enough to warrant another good cleaning. Been there myself a few times.

When you cranked it over, did you pull the plug to see if it's wet from fuel (which indicates that the fuel is getting to the combustion chamber from the carb)

Pull the fuel line off at the carb to make sure some rust flakes or something didn't plug up your freshly-cleaned petcock and filter. It happens.

Check all air passages from airbox to carb to make sure a mouse didn't build a condo in it after your buddy left. I've found a few airboxes with hickory nuts and dog food in them or a tube full of mud dauber nests.

If you have good compression and good fuel supply, you'll know your spark is the problem. Then the manual and a ohmmeter comes in handy to easily diagnose what's weak in your CDI chain. It's really nowhere near as complicated as it looks. These motors are really simple and easy to fix affordably and once you get it running good and in good mechanical shape, chances are you won't have to mess with it much other than oil and filter changes for a very long time. Well worth the effort to learn how to work on them.

The most important thing for me is to remind myself to check and double-check the seemingly stupid and obvious stuff first because that's usually what ends up being wrong after I've purchased unnecessary parts. Never assume it's "clean enough" or "looks good enough".

I would check fuel supply and compression first and rule them out. Then you can tackle electrical.


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[miloman]

I like ar's advice....Keep it simple

Speaking of tank vents, did you unscrew the fuel tank cap to see if it would run? Sometimes even with the fuel cap vent switch to vent out, they get clogged and you get a vacuum that affects fuel to your bowl.

Have you checked compression? I've got a 200es in my garage that ran good but kinda weak for a week after we bought it and now it has no compression. A thumb over the plug hole isn't accurate as an engine could still have 100psi and yet not enough to fire it and run.

Sometimes you clean a carb really good but you miss one spec deep inside a passage between jets and it breaks free and gums up the jet enough to warrant another good cleaning. Been there myself a few times.

When you cranked it over, did you pull the plug to see if it's wet from fuel (which indicates that the fuel is getting to the combustion chamber from the carb)

Pull the fuel line off at the carb to make sure some rust flakes or something didn't plug up your freshly-cleaned petcock and filter. It happens.

Check all air passages from airbox to carb to make sure a mouse didn't build a condo in it after your buddy left. I've found a few airboxes with hickory nuts and dog food in them or a tube full of mud dauber nests.

If you have good compression and good fuel supply, you'll know your spark is the problem. Then the manual and a ohmmeter comes in handy to easily diagnose what's weak in your CDI chain. It's really nowhere near as complicated as it looks. These motors are really simple and easy to fix affordably and once you get it running good and in good mechanical shape, chances are you won't have to mess with it much other than oil and filter changes for a very long time. Well worth the effort to learn how to work on them.

The most important thing for me is to remind myself to check and double-check the seemingly stupid and obvious stuff first because that's usually what ends up being wrong after I've purchased unnecessary parts. Never assume it's "clean enough" or "looks good enough".

I would check fuel supply and compression first and rule them out. Then you can tackle electrical.


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Yeah I got it started this morning for like 15 seconds before it died with 1/2 choke on so I'm 99% sure it's like running way to rich or lean


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[ironchop]

Yeah I got it started this morning for like 15 seconds before it died with 1/2 choke on so I'm 99% sure it's like running way to rich or lean


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OK then, nevermind.

Must be something else wrong.

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