The Bigger Picture

[Rob Canadian]

Bad parenting. The interwebs and socal media... Meds. It all comes down to the person. What triggers it(?) Not the gun.

Did i get a beating in my younger years. Yup. Got the strap in grade 3 (1978) Last year in was done. In my house I have rules. House rules.

In my life I work with a 1,2,3. Like baseball. Be it a fight or whatever. 1 walk away or try too. 2 something is still going on. 3 smash it!!!! Deal with it after.

[Bren_downe]

Yes you are well within your rights. But it's alarming that a free thinking individual such as yourself would take such a hard stance without ever having had to do it yourself. To a helpless person you love. It's a quick solution to a bigger problem. Just think about it.

[Arky-X]

7 kids in my family. Went to a Catholic school. Ask me if we ever got whoopings.

Issue with this kid is 1) were there behavior signs 2) did anyone report it 3) what would they have done anyway?

1) The few articles I read said people that knew him knew he had issues but how serious or what threats constitute getting him help.
2) It was mentioned earlier in this thread, "See something, say something." It's no one's problem to deal with.......and then all of a sudden it is. Even if someone would have raised a concern then.............>
3) I don't know firsthand but I've heard too many stories where behavior and mental issues are poorly handled. People are just checkboxes on a form. "We've analyzed your child and we didn't find an immediate threat to anyone or himself." There's lots of professionals writing articles in journals and teaching about behavioral or mental issues but where are they in the field when it comes time to actually help them?

[Rob Canadian]

Yes you are well within your rights. But it's alarming that a free thinking individual such as yourself would take such a hard stance without ever having had to do it yourself. To a helpless person you love. It's a quick solution to a bigger problem. Just think about it.

Me? I come from a broken family. I am single now. raised 2 boys for the last 5 years...

[Bren_downe]

Me? I come from a broken family. I am single now. raised 2 boys for the last 5 years...

I was replying to Fabio. Sorry for the confusion.

[ironchop]

I agree. It was a bad situation. I just can't take when everybody gets all nostalgic for the day when you could just hit a kid. It's not gonna solve the topic of this thread, just like gun control won't.
Sorry for the tread derailment Ironchop.

No! Please don't apologise. The thread isn't derailed at all. This is exactly what I want to hear.

The only way I can put this together in my own head and be satisfied is if I don't let my own confirmation bias form my opinions and beliefs. That's tough keeping an open mind at my age. We all need to be reminded of other points of view before we rush to judgement.

You have already reminded me to think about how I felt about getting hit as a kid. My situation was rough because I was raised by a fundamentalist Christian and for a short time, a Vietnam Marine vet. 63-68 volunteered. Drank alot. You know the drill. My experience was maybe more extreme than others and not as extreme as some.

As far as my own kids, we never hit our kids. That wasn't the route we wanted to take and it worked since I'm one of those blessed ppl with some good hearted smart kids to begin with.

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[sledcrazyinCT]

Interesting thread despite the spanking = bad parenting BS....Next post best be on topic as you already acknowledged derailing the thread yet kept on trucking off track

Big Pharma is a contributor in most of these mass shootings. Lobbyists keep this issue out of the discussion
Lack of a mom and dad raising many children. TV and video games are baby sitters
Violence shown in so many venues, news channels 24/7 coverage of previous mass shootings make other mentally ill people decide they need to be the next shooter
Realistic video games glorifying killing rampages, stealing, looting, wasting zombies
Hollywood pushing the envelope to give audiences the next level of shoot em up glamorized gore
Lack of compassion for others in our society. Desensitized to other peoples hardship or loss of life
World Wide Web overloading a troubled mind with content that warps their mind to the point of murder
Social media is eliminating face to face interaction. Do these killers have any real friends or just facebook peeps?

[ironchop]

Everything we watch is peppered with violence.

I have a tough time blaming video games because I love Call of Duty and Medal of Honor.

I wondered why we are a Western country and the West is technically Western Europe too these days so do American films, entertainment, and media contain more violence than European nations? Western Europe seems to have less firearm trouble than the USA. Guns are restricted more there but they are still available. Why don't Swiss ppl with the armories in their basements go on rampages? There has to be a cultural connection and culture is shaped heavily by media and entertainment industry here in.this country.

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[sledcrazyinCT]

[Scootertrash]

I was born in 1960, have no kids. Been thru the changes like 'chop + a few years.

My opinion? Much like many others here:
Breakdown of the family structure-
Parents are not at home as much as in the "good old days". Both parents working. Single parent homes with no father figure. Lack of discipline/lack of responsibility for bad behavior. "The Snowflake Epidemic" or "Everybody Gets A Trophy". Children are not taught how to deal with failure or the fact that not everybody is going to like you or be your friend. The feminization/pussification of America. Kids are not allowed to defend themselves when bullied and are punished when they do stand up for themselves and fight back, etc, etc, on , and on.

Bren, you seem to be stuck on the notion that ANY physical punishment is a "beating" and that it's the first course of action for a misbehaving child. I assure in mine and my brothers cases that's not true. Our spamkings were reachj thru an escalation of disrespect for my parents rules.

1. Multiple verbal warnings or scoldings, the apex of which was "Wait 'til your father gets home"

2. Non-physical punishment: Being sent to your room or having to sit in the corner (We didn't have "time outs") "Groundings" of various types: No bicycle, grounded to the yard, having a favorite toy taken away, etc. No video games in my childhood. We played outside.

3. A spanking. Our parents NEVER beat us. Half a dozen wacks on the ass with a hand does not constitute a beating.

Ya know what? There are kids who respond to verbal correction just fine, there are a large contingent of others who feel the need to constantly test boundaries and push limits. (raises hand)

Increasing gun control has nothing to do with reducing shootings or "saving just one life". It's about power and control over the serfs by the Elites. I'm willing to bet that some of these shootings are the result of mental manipulation of individuals who are gently coaxed over the edge. YMMV

[ironchop]

Stefan Molyneux is full of gems, btw

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[danbur55]

what are the long term effects of chemicals and preservatives in our food supply. are they impairing both mental and physical development of youth added to the "participation trophy attitudes" who's standards are right in "you have the right to do what is right not to do wrong" for every right there is a reponsibility but that does not set well with our "its all about me" society that promotes do what you want there are no consequences for your OWN actions

[ironchop]

My oldest daughter is an elementary school teacher here in KY.

She told my wife this morning that her schools unofficial policy was to NOT flunk or "hold back" any kids because it would hurt their feelings and damage them.....

This is absolute madness

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[ironchop]

Heard a legislator suggest that maybe weapons be only sold to people over the age of twenty one. Cruz could legally buy the AR 15 yet not legal to buy a case of beer

I think he's still missing the point.

We trust an eighteen year old to go fight and die for his country but the only adult right he has is to drive and vote? No drinking or buying handguns. That's always stuck in my craw. Seems convoluted reason.



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[sledcrazyinCT]

The only reason I think video games add to the problem is the children playing them probably never held or fired a real gun. They just don't know what a real weapon is capable of doing.

Heard a legislator suggest that maybe weapons be only sold to people over the age of twenty one. Nikolas Cruz could legally buy the AR 15 yet not legally buy a case of beer

Scooter's explanation of spanking is spot on. I can count the times I was hit by my father on both hands. Most times were when I was a young teen.....each time was after I did something horrendous or destructive, and basically was indignant or outright denied when he attempted to explain the error of my ways.
My family upbringing was filled with love and respect. Respect goes both ways so when a know it all teen disrespects his family sometimes a whooping is the only thing that would sink in at the time. I would never fault him for raising his hand to me every time was warranted and many other times I was amazed he held back....Ironchop's post in another thread about the stuff rural kids would do after school and weekends fit me to a T.