85/86 250R oil mix ratio 20:1 or are you running something different?

[Rob Canadian]

I run my 3 250rs and 300r on 32:1. with Amsoil dominator mixed with 91 non ethol gas.Amsoil,and some of the popular oils for 2 strokes have been around since the 70s.Klotz has been around for about 60 years.If you are using 86 octane gas with ethol go with 20:1.My local Honda Dealers back in the day recommended Castrol oil .Back in the 80s 2 of my uncles ran their 250rs on 84:1 with Amsoil they used the type that could be mixed at 100:1.They never had any issues and we rode every weekend.

I worked at a Bosch Service center years ago. We were a Amsoil and Mobil 1 dealer. I remember the Amsoil stuff. 100:1. I thought to myself that is crazy. This was 1988-1993. Spot on with that info.

Interesting on the 10W30 info. I know I did mix some up in a pinch at the cottage years ago on my old 2 stroke dirtbike. It was all I had.

[Arky-X]

I have honestly never heard of this before. My aplogies to arky-x for the lack of insight.

No need for apologies. I really did have a brainfart remembering my buddy mix up his 30W and gas in a can for our rides. I never questioned it then because I didn't know any better. I use 2cycle oil for my chain saw and weed whacker but I wouldn't know the difference in it versus the Lucas, Amsoil, etc.

Didn't mean to derail the thread but...... motor oil is motor oil.......
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oLeXpF1kzDU

[Red Rider]

Back in the mid-late 80’s, my father was an Amsoil dealer, and kept trying to get my brother and I to try Amsoil, @ 100:1, in our 250R’s, but we didn’t trust it, so we never did. But when a trusted motorcycle service center owner, suggested we try HPS synthetic oil @ 100:1, we jumped all over it. Chalk it up to being young, and thinking dad didn’t know what he was talking about, I guess. We used HPS @ 100:1, with no issues in our ‘85-86 250R’s, and an ‘87 Tecate as well. When HPS went out of business, we switched to Redline synthetic @ 100:1, and still no issues. These days, the majority of our riding is sand dunes. After reading most of the oil ratio threads on this forum, usually with links to good articles by respected engine builders, I decided to richen up my mixture a bit. For the last 3 years now, I’ve been mixing my Redline @ 88:1, still no issues, nor noticeable gains.

[dbtiger]

Exxon at Clayton and Baxter in chesterfield sells 93 no ethanol, or at least they did when I lived there. You may want to check it out

thats great to hear, I'll have to check them out. I’m in Wildwood, so Chesterfield isn’t that far from me.

[Doug8765]

What oil is being used?
SAE 30W?
10W-30?
or some other old school oil?.......if so, then yes, run 20:1

This was in 2004 told me to run maxima 927 castor at 20:1 syns been out since 70s guys!? This was one of the top shifter cart motor builders . I had him build me a cr 125 for 5000.00 complete. He has won several championships


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Doug8765]

Get a new engine builder

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[dbtiger]

Back in the mid-late 80’s, my father was an Amsoil dealer, and kept trying to get my brother and I to try Amsoil, @ 100:1, in our 250R’s, but we didn’t trust it, so we never did. But when a trusted motorcycle service center owner, suggested we try HPS synthetic oil @ 100:1, we jumped all over it. Chalk it up to being young, and thinking dad didn’t know what he was talking about, I guess. We used HPS @ 100:1, with no issues in our ‘85-86 250R’s, and an ‘87 Tecate as well. When HPS went out of business, we switched to Redline synthetic @ 100:1, and still no issues. These days, the majority of our riding is sand dunes. After reading most of the oil ratio threads on this forum, usually with links to good articles by respected engine builders, I decided to richen up my mixture a bit. For the last 3 years now, I’ve been mixing my Redline @ 88:1, still no issues, nor noticeable gains.

Very interesting. If I ran into someone that told me to mix at 100:1/88:1, I’d think they had lost their mind and they would soon blow their engine. However, the fact that you have run these ratios for a long time, with no issues, gives some credence to running these ratios.

[Doug8765]

My .02

This is IMO one of the better oil ratio excerpts written.
http://www.klemmvintage.com/oils.htm

If you want the cliff notes, oil ratio is a function of RPM. High, sustained revs require a larger ratio of oil to gas (20-25:1) whereas inconsistent RPMs or on average, lower RPM engines can get away with less oil to gas ratio (30-40:1).

IMO, Honda was playing it safe thinking that your everyday joe may/could be revving it to the moon during the life of the motor and they wanted to ensure the crank bearings stayed happy. This is a good thought but at 20:1 and as Fabio said earlier you are loosing a cooling effect because by its very nature gas is a coolant for your motor, moreso the higher in octane you go. So remember, more oil means less molecules of gas which equals less cooling for your motor. It’s all a delicate balance but goes right back to RPM.

If you are a sand duner or road racer, better start investing in (insert your favorite oil company here). If you are the weekend warrior on trails or just like to play around then 30-40:1 may be more your speed.

I cut the difference and run Klotz beanol at 36:1

Tell fabaio to change jets more fuel to


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[fabiodriven]

This was in 2004 told me to run maxima 927 castor at 20:1 syns been out since 70s guys!? This was one of the top shifter cart motor builders . I had him build me a cr 125 for 5000.00 complete. He has won several championships

If you'll notice, Doug, as was stated (possibly more than once), if you are running sustained WOT (such as shifter carts do), then 20:1 might be something you'd consider running. That was stated in this thread. So when you talk about ratios and engine builders in a thread about a Honda ATC250R three wheeler and reference information that pertains to shifter carts, you might want to open with something like "My friend who builds shifter cart engines, not ATC250R engines, says that 20:1 is the way to go when racing shifter carts, not when riding Honda ATC250R three wheelers."

Tell fabaio to change jets more fuel to

Tell me yourself hunny.

So you're telling me you'd now jet fatter just to stick to your guns about running more oil which you don't need? You do realize that jetting is tuned individually to every engine, no two are exactly the same, correct? You jet to make the bike run right, not to be certain you can run an excessive amount of oil that you don't need.

By your logic Doug, I should completely forget about how my bike starts and runs, just throw that out the window, then jet it too rich so that I can run more oil.

The downside to running too much oil- waste of money, clogs exhaust, raises combustion chamber temperatures, chokes everyone behind me, fouls spark plugs, etc.

The upside to running too much oil- This is fill in the blank Doug. You tell me. You tell me why I should jet to compensate for running more oil than what's recommended by just about everyone including the oil manufacturers because I'm all ears my friend.

Poor Doug, wait until Glamy gets a load of this. I can see the memes now...

[ironchop]

Where's BarnettOU812?



Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[HondaRidr]

This right here is the real deal haha. You beat me to posting this link. I've heard that something like 28 to 1 produces the max horsepower when someone experimented with different ratios on a dyno. I could be wrong about that though

My .02

This is IMO one of the better oil ratio excerpts written.
http://www.klemmvintage.com/oils.htm

If you want the cliff notes, oil ratio is a function of RPM. High, sustained revs require a larger ratio of oil to gas (20-25:1) whereas inconsistent RPMs or on average, lower RPM engines can get away with less oil to gas ratio (30-40:1).

IMO, Honda was playing it safe thinking that your everyday joe may/could be revving it to the moon during the life of the motor and they wanted to ensure the crank bearings stayed happy. This is a good thought but at 20:1 and as Fabio said earlier you are loosing a cooling effect because by its very nature gas is a coolant for your motor, moreso the higher in octane you go. So remember, more oil means less molecules of gas which equals less cooling for your motor. It’s all a delicate balance but goes right back to RPM.

If you are a sand duner or road racer, better start investing in (insert your favorite oil company here). If you are the weekend warrior on trails or just like to play around then 30-40:1 may be more your speed.

I cut the difference and run Klotz beanol at 36:1

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[Doug8765]

This right here is the real deal haha. You beat me to posting this link. I've heard that something like 28 to 1 produces the max horsepower when someone experimented with different ratios on a dyno. I could be wrong about that though

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Larger jet with more oil ! Runs same cause fuels thicker. You should change jets at least twice during the day from morning to night if you want it perfect favio


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Outlaw #24]

dbtiger said he picked it up and the previous guy ran 32:1 ! Why change it? it was evidently working for him. Find out what oil he ran and start there until you know different. By changing the ratio or mixture you will be re-jetting the carburetor. Also when I started mixing for my 2 strokes, I used MC1+(Bell Ray), After I had the cylinder ported the first time, my engine guy told me to use Golden Spectro at 5gallons to 1 12oz bottle. That was in 88-89 and I have never used anything else, have never suffered from an engine failure caused from oil mixture. I have 1 cylinder, (I can Show you guys), that was run competively and riding and all for 28 years and still has the hone marks in the cylinder. Piston had a small crack in it and that is why I changed cylinders only,(Skeletor), Golden spectral has been around for a very long time and there formula has always remained the same when others like Blenzol or Klotz has changed formulas. the fuel does cool you engine while the oil lubricates everything and should not burn out it should lubricate all of the way through, from the Carb inlet to the exhaust Outlet it is to be lubricating. Use what ever oils mix you want as long as it works for you I do not give a rip. The gas you use has a significant effect on the performance of the engine. It indeed used to propel ass well as cool. Lower Octane fuels burn hotter. 92 octane is better than 89 octane, but if you want to get the most out of the engine, 110 is the easiest to work with. Get it from you local race shop or ask them where to get it. It is usually about 7 bucks a gallon but if you want to play, you got to pay! Todays technology dictates that we use something different that 30w SAE. In a pinch is 1 thing running all the time? I don't think so! BTW most of the oils we use to mix in our gas for our wheelers will not run that well in a chain saw or weed wacker and if you look on the bottle like HR1 it says it is not recommended for these engines. 1 more thing ENGINE (internal combustion), MOTOR (electric). Don't go there either! I love the idea of the chain saw oil bottle too! You guys are good

[dbtiger]

This thread has been educational for me. Obviously there’s not a consensus, but that’s ok...it makes for hearing good arguments on both sides of the issue.

The last time I owned a two stroke, it was 1987 and the 2 cycle oil I used was Bel Ray bought at the local Honda dealer. I mixed it to the manufacturer specs and rode on. Very interesting to learn about the advances in oil chemistry/technology and the effects on mixing ratios.

[Rhino-1]

Castor 927 at 40:1 for as long as I can remember (Banshees and Blasters since the mid-90's, an now on 250R's). Love the smell, the smoke is manageable, and the only issues I've had have been from rider-induced errors....