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Thread: 200ES build

  1. #1
    Gabriel's Avatar
    Gabriel is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerAt the back of the pack
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    200ES build

    I think I've come to the conclusion that the 200ES is about the most perfect ATC ever built.....for me. Shaft drive, dual range, electric start, reverse. Plenty of power but is perfectly at home putin' around.

    I finally have a good solid frame, damage repaired. Sandblasted and painted. SO, off we go!

    I have two motors and MOST of the parts. If all goes well, I made a trade for another complete one that smokes plus a parts trike I will pick up this weekend. If this one turns out well, i will go all the way through the one I am picking up this weekend and have a pair. One for me and one for the woman. I'll sell my 200E and my 200s Frankenstein build.


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    Working on the rear end now. Get it cleaned, painted and serviced.

    Is there a trick to getting the engines in/out of this model? It was a miserable SOB to get out compared to my 200s. Even with the rear end removed it's a tight fit. I just KNOW I'm gonna scratch my paint when it comes time to reinstall. It's that ONE bracket too. It would slide out easy were it not for one mounting tab.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    TTown, Alabama, United States
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    its been a while since we've had a 200es build around here! I would use alumabrite on all the cast pieces rather than paint them, but that's just a personal preference. Definitely watching this, i have one in a serious state of neglect that needs rebuilding.
    Suicide Hill Survivor

    The rides:
    1981 ATC110
    1982 ATC185
    1983 ATC185s
    1984 ATC200es
    1985 ATC200x

    When the going gets tough, the tough get sideways

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Shaft drive, dual range, electric start, reverse. Plenty of power but is perfectly at home putin' around.
    Can't really argue with that logic.

    Keep us posted on the build. The hardtail enthusiasts will be watching.

    The only advice I can give you on getting the motor back in is get an extra pair of hands. Two people make the job easier. Three people might be ideal. Put some towels down too.

  4. #4
    Gabriel's Avatar
    Gabriel is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerAt the back of the pack
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    Allballs stem bearings. New brakes, tire and boots. Got it back on the ground. Rear end is dry and loosely installed. Still need brakes in it and fluid. Probably wait till the engine is build as it'll have to come out for the engine install anyway.

    Progress. Slow, but progress.

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    Amateur Resurrectionist

  5. #5
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    FYI, beware of the cheap china brakes, they wear out nearly instantly in my experience, or the pad material separates. An affordable actual brand name I've ran across a bit is EBC, they are a bit of a harder material but they do last well.

    The 200es motor is just a pain to remove always, atleast for me I've never figured out the perfect trick. Just get it out of the mounts, turn sideways and slip out, of course easier said than done.

    You'd probably love the 250es/250sx too, if you ever run across those machines. Their downfall was no low range, instead they made first gear "Super Low" and for the most part they kept with that logic ever since (my dad's 2003 foreman 4x4 is the same way).

    FYI, you can get new OEM hand grips for cheap, if I remember right the correct OEM part is like $8 each, or you can look up one for a 2006 rincon and use those ones for like $3 each. The only difference is the very end, the OEM one covers the end of the handle bar metal, the newer style is just a straight hole though it (so the end clamp doesn't really clamp it on).

    Good luck on the build.

  6. #6
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    Sep 2013
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    Love my '84 200es - first trike I bought - still own it. Good luck with your build.

  7. #7
    Gabriel's Avatar
    Gabriel is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerAt the back of the pack
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    Little more progress this morning.
    Making brackets to mount my LED light. Copying the original, I bent 5/16 rod and threaded the top end. Had to machine some hard rubber bushings for the bottom. Used some modified Honda bushings on top with the metal inserts.

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    They'll be a pressure fit in the bottom with a nut on either side of the top bushing. This will hold it strong but let it wiggle a little so as not to self destruct.

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    Cut off the mounting tabs from the supplied bracket and welded them on. MIG welder died and left me with nothing but a stick welder. Hard for me to do tedious small stuff with a stick. BUT, an old man in a machine shop I used to work in once told me, "Son, you ain't gotta be a good welder as long as you're a good grinder."

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    Here's what she looks like.

    1650 lumen 27w CREE LED.

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    Last edited by Gabriel; 08-21-2018 at 12:04 PM.
    Amateur Resurrectionist

  8. #8
    Gabriel's Avatar
    Gabriel is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerAt the back of the pack
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    Started tearing down the engine today.

    Learned something. If you look up "S.O.B." in the dictionary, there'll be a picture of the two phillips drive flat head cap screws that hold the oil pump in place. Stripped the head out on one and had a WONDERFUL time with a center punch and a . Two hours later I got them both out. The Japanese fella what installed these must've believed his honor depended on these screws staying in place. Jeez! Have to get some new ones from Fastenal.
    Amateur Resurrectionist

  9. #9
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    Headlight fab work is pretty sweet.

    Buy a set of Japanese Industrial Standard (+) bits or driver and you'll not have another stripped Phillips head again. JIS have different internal + socket angles than mainstream Phillips heads which is why we all were stripping out the Phillips fasteners whole time.

    I use this one ALOT and it's fantastic for torquing down or removing stubborn fasteners.....



    Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    Gabriel's Avatar
    Gabriel is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerAt the back of the pack
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    Not sure they would've come out even with that. I had to use a 1/4" socket on my Ingersoll 1/2" drive impact wrench and a driver bit slipped into the 1/4" socket and I still had to ride it to get them out. I had the engine on a tick towel, on it's side and all my body weight bearing down. The first one finally came out. The second one moved then stripped. I broke the head off two drivers before they moved though. I think Honda used Mjolnir to drive them in.
    Amateur Resurrectionist

  11. #11
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    I'm not sure how they torqued them down, but I've used an impacq screwdriver (type you hit with a ), and gave up before they would come loose on a atc110 engine I was working with. I just wanted to take the clutch apart to see exactly how it functioned and get the experience, but dang if I kept going I would have broke the heads off. It seems like they used red loctite on them or something.

  12. #12
    Gabriel's Avatar
    Gabriel is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerAt the back of the pack
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    once, JUST ONCE, I would like to rebuild an engine with an actual REBUILD manual. Not a repair manual, not a service manual. A rebuild manual.
    One that read; First page, To start, loosen screw A. Then on the last page it say, to finish, tighten screw A and you're done!

    This skipping around is giving me whiplash. I have a Clymer manual and the actual Honda manual. I find them both to have holes in their information. Thankfully, using both they kinda overlap.
    The organization is great for repairs otherwise you'd play hell ever finding what you need but it sucks for a start to finish job.


    Ok, I'm done whining now.
    Amateur Resurrectionist

  13. #13
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    I think they write the guides fairly vague since they expect the person using the repair manual to have schooling/training, more details = more cost for writing. Long books generally cost more to produce/sell as well. Just my guess on the setup, I've never done an actual rebuild on an engine, but I've cracked a couple cases open to check on the transmission gears and such. Don't think I've ever followed a guide, but all my life growing up I've followed that process of doing it by eye/on the fly.

    I agree that they could be improved on, like modern guides on forums that are made by completely random people use better photos to show bolt/screw locations, with circles, count of them etc.

    Just for an example, I'm pretty sure anyone that has the guts to follow this guide could do the job. I've done the job something like 5 times at past job (flaw with that printer model). The first time that issue showed up, it took another tech without the guide over 12 hours to figure it out and get it apart. With the guide first time I think I did it in 5 hours start to finish. The last one I did I was down to 2.5 hours from the experience. I think HP service techs are paid 3 hours for the job if I recall correctly. Sadly, there isn't even a guide from HP on this matter that I could find to compare it.
    http://www.lbrty.com/tech/articles/4...swingplate.pdf

    That guide has a lot of info crammed in a little area, I don't see why more mechanic service/repair manuals use that style of format.

    I think there is such a thing as a engine rebuild manual, but you have to step up into cars/trucks etc for them to exist.

  14. #14
    Gabriel's Avatar
    Gabriel is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerAt the back of the pack
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    I'm down to just the transmission and main case halves now. Took the sub-transmission apart and reassembled it several times until I could do it without the book. I will certainly need/use the book for final assembly but at least I somewhat get what's going on.
    Trying to learn, not just rebuild this thing. Each piece gets attention, cleaned and the exterior parts painted. NOT following factory paint scheme. Pics once I have something worth posting.

    The only thing I will not be tearing down is the rod/crank, as it is in great shape and beyond my ability & the 90 degree output assembly. I can clean and paint that without taking it apart and there's almost no backlash in it and the output shaft seal is in good shape. Hope i don't regret not replacing it but it doesn't appear to come in the gasket set I ordered. If fact, none of the actual seals come in it. O rings and gaskets only. Thankfully I have't run into any damaged seals yet and the machine didn't have a single leak beforehand. Even the inside of the driveshaft enclosure was moderately clean.

    If this is a success it may very wel be THE most complex piece of machinery I've ever rebuilt. It sure makes a small block chevrolet look like a 5hp Briggs. LOL!
    Amateur Resurrectionist

  15. #15
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    That would be because what you're working on is the small block chevy + a manual transmission in one housing =). More or less the same thing, just a majorly different design. Really though, look at an atv engine for a USA atv like a can-am, it's basically a snowmobile belt clutch setup. Not many are actual shiftable gears like the Jap engines. Good news is, once you figure out one Honda engine, you have more or less a basic understanding for all Jap atv engines. 2 stroke is a little bit different, but not a super major difference.

    Generally working on transmissions scares a lot of people, so props to you for going that far.

    If I recall correctly, the output 90 degree shaft is sealed with an o-ring, shouldn't be too hard to find one, or buy it from Honda to be sure of no leaks since you're going though the whole process. If you bought a full engine gasket kit, it should have all those o-rings I'd think. I don't think I've ever seen or heard of that output shaft failing, maybe the spines going bad for the drive shaft, but generally the rear end goes bad long before that happens. They are fairly easy to find on ebay last I checked too, so not a major problem, and it's possible to change it without fully taking it apart again, just tricky to keep all the washers from sliding out inside, there's posts/threads about it so I won't go into detail.

    I'm kind of interested in what paint setup you're going with. Stock is a metallic gray, the 250sx was like a gloss black. I like the look of the 350x which is the same color as the 250sx, but the edges of the fins are sanded down to be bare metal. I think I've seen people polish the metal too for a pretty nice chrome like look.

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