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Thread: Mailman delivered my new 200x “motor” today

  1. #91
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    East of Worcester ma
    --
    1,326
    It’s only a 2200w motor, yes the controller would have the amps to give it more but the motor will only take what it needs. Like I can’t push 80amps or 3000watts into it (it won’t take it) but could take more amps for say a steep hill temporarily.
    My battery bms will only allow 50amps and up to 130amps only for a few seconds.
    Ps2 - yes that’s true about the hp- I could get a 5kw,8kw,10kw up to 15kw but I’m just looking for a cruiser not a dragster.
    And yup costs go up a 5kw motor is about $600 ish and so on I’d guess $100 buck per 1000kw so ya that’s not for me anytime soon, when u jump up to the 3000kw + motors I’ve found there not pre-geared anymore (prob don’t need it) the motors I’m messing with are 5:1 exiting the motor before it hits my gearing which is anywhere from 1.75:1 - 2,25:1.
    I’m roughly 7:1 ish total depending on which sprockets I run.
    I climbed a pretty steep hill maybe 100ft up about a 35’ angle - yes it chugged up it and no sign of not making it to the top
    Just a little more power would have been nice. This motor “should” add a bit of push to add to the fun factor....

    I didn’t proof read any of this, I gotta make dinner I’ll fix my grammar or errors later.

    Ps2- ya there’s a lot of stuff I had to learn about electricity during this project- “lots of on the throne” reading/calculating.
    And thanks-

    Oh I brought it over to my nephews b-day party last wkend (big yard) I should of took a video. About 6kids on those power wheels cruising about/ (4-8) yr olds, I powered it down to about 10mph max, my kids had a blast cruising with the kiddies mine would clime anything where the youngsters powersheels wouldn’t even touch (all torque). Two woman approached me on where I purchased it and if they could ride it and couldn’t keep there eyes off it the whole time and were amazed how quiet it was. Told them maybe nextime when my wiring was 100% done. (My excuse) they’d flip, get hurt and sue me most likely. So nope not gonna happen.

    Fully charged I’m at 65v and the controller and battery bms shuts down at 42v for battery longevity etc.

    Top speed I’m not sure- feels like 18-20 possibly 25 tops I really haven’t topped it out on flat straightaways yet but for my area, tight wooded trails/hills it’s plenty for now. Keeping torque I need for hills. My trails on the regular 200x I barely got outa 3rd. Well most of the time.

    Ps2-yes I started out w/a smaller wattage motor but I’m changing it out to a 2200w hopefully this weekend,
    I’ve got a variety of front/ rear sprockets to choose from now too.

    Shep
    Last edited by Shep1970; 09-04-2019 at 06:19 PM. Reason: Been a long day.......here’s some extra periods if u feel I need em’

  2. #92
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
    --
    4,114
    I figured your goal wasn't to have a speed racer machine. Just wanted to convert some of the numbers to something I understood better. Pretty neat the motors come with a gear ratio drop, lot easier to deal with that than trying to run a tiny sprocket in the front and a monster one in the back to work out the right ratio.

    Seems like you might have a business opportunity with this though, i mean two people bugged you already about buying something similar, maybe you can buy a cheap China quad and convert it to electric and sell the unneeded parts. Guessing the cost of resale would have to be somewhere in the $3000-4000 range though, probably a bit too much for the average person to be willing to spend. Realistically, I wouldn't mind an electric atv/atc but I'd want somewhere around 8-10hp+ and min run time around an hour with fairly heavy riding. Would take a lot of riding, but electric is quite a lot cheaper than gas, the only down side is the range for electric, not like you can just swap out batteries to keep going easily.

    Ironically I worked on a 125CC China quad not long ago, it's top speed was around 25mph (using GPS can't remember exact number) and only had 1 forward gear, bottom end was weak for take off, it couldn't pull it's self up the ramp for the owner's trailer with no rider.

    By chance to you have a way to weigh your machine to get a total weight? Even a scale under each tire and add them up would be good enough, would just be interesting to see what the weight is, no rider of course.

  3. #93
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    East of Worcester ma
    --
    1,326
    Yes I weighed parts as it was put together/ without looking at notes it was right about 200 lbs / no fenders or tank mounted yet-
    Yes I will get total weight when done though and I bet no more than 225 lbs.
    That’s the only drawback with going with a lot more power is the battery size, even with lithium the size grows tramendously due to the higher amp draw u need more ah for the ride time - so until battery technology gets to the next level that is.
    My china chain is already stretching in this vid its slapping the guard, gotta put my good chain on now.

    Heres 2-mins vid/ just me, it’s all I have for now, my teenagers are too busy w/girls to ride at the moment/figures.....
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWupJgbPk04
    It does great off trail too but there’s too many spiderwebs out there recently, (Creeps me out) May not be poisonous but there’s big nasty ones that u see while riding into at the last second.
    Oh, we’ve got one of those 70cc China quads- started kids when they were 4yrs old on it, I tell ya for the short money we spent on it and parts I swapped out for better ones it lasted a few yrs. I bet it would still run today if it was worth fixing but it’s sadly not worth the time.

    If I had a spare 6-700$ the battery I have is small/light enough to keep a spare in a backpack but unless I win the lottery it’s doughtfull that’ll happen.

    Shep

  4. #94
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
    --
    4,114
    Lithium Ion batteryes have came a long way, a single cell with the right design can output 20-25 amps alone, granted that's at 3.6v normal voltage. To hit 60v min and 40 amp output would take a 17s2p battery pack bare min, or 34 18650 cells. Here's a link to a page that gives specs. Price seems a bit high, I think they normally run around $4 each in bulk.

    https://www.centralvapors.com/samsun...20amp-battery/

    2.5ah per battery, so 17s2p would be only a 5ah battery so run time would be quite short. To get it to 25ah, you'd need 17s10p or 170 cells so should be around $700 cost but you'd need a BMS, charge controller, etc. Battery pack would have a max continuous output of 200amp though =). These are effectively cordless drill batteries though, the other route is go for less max amp output and you get better capacity, last I checked they topped out around 3600mah rated and rated for 5amp continuous and 20amp peak. There's some people out there that have a whole house battery backup system using these.

    Also, the 170 18650 cell battery would weigh about 17lbs, probably some pretty nice weight savings and space savings.

    If you wanted a trike that goes fast, hands down you'd want Lithium Ion cells so you can keep the weight down while getting enough battery capacity for an acceptable range.

    Here's an example of a guy using these cells (from used laptop batteries) as a battery bank for his house. Each "cell" hanging on the wall is 80s1p to get an idea of the size a 17s10p battery would look like.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md4l9bFDOtc

    I don't think it's so much the battery tech needing to catch up, I think it's here, but the costs are too high currently to be feasible for the average person, or maybe just not well known yet. Here's an interesting video of a production bike, I saw a video of the same model bike on the MX track and it had something like a 3hr battery life on the track.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3akxA3cgzLY

    It's only a $15,000 dirt bike with 40hp and 120ft/lbs of torque. I also read it has 50 mile range on the street.

    Alta rates ride time at about four hours in Map 1 mode and 20 minutes in Map 4.
    Neat machine, but the price just isn't there for the average person yet, an ATV version would be even more if it kept similar performance/range.

    Long term, electric defo is the future, just think how cheap it is to rebuild an electric motor vs a gas engine, and how often they need rebuilding. A couple bearings and it's ready to go again assuming no damage to the windings. Batteries are the big cost long term, around 10-15 year life cycle for good name brand batteries.

  5. #95
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    East of Worcester ma
    --
    1,326
    This is the specs for my lithium with LG cells -and the 50amp bms. Its about the size of a shoe box. Separate key/power on and the key also pushes a steel pin into a locking plate beneath it that’s mounted to the bike- I can remove the battery or install it in seconds which is nice. I opted for this style because it’s in a metal case and sort of disappears within the bike.
    Yes pricey but should last a while- Click image for larger version. 

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    It’s been a learning experience for sure.
    Just wanted a fun cruiser without spending too much cash but to have possible upgrades for the future.
    Shep
    Last edited by Shep1970; 09-04-2019 at 09:15 PM.

  6. #96
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
    --
    4,114
    Ahh ok, I was thinking you was running lead acid style batteries for some reason. Pretty interesting specs though, looks like the cells are rated around 7amp each and are the more capacity/cheaper cost style. LG cells are a good brand like Samsung. Didn't really know those kinds of battery packs were made, pretty neat stuff. Defo small enough to swap out, but cost for having an on hand spare battery, might just be better off just adding the mounting so you can have two together, should just have to match the pack voltage before connecting together. I agree the metal case is a good idea, have to protect the cells from the weather and possible damage from the trail.

    How long does it take to charge that battery from dead to full charge? Based on the specs, 5amp max would mean quickest possible charge is around 5hr?

  7. #97
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    East of Worcester ma
    --
    1,326
    Charge time I don’t know yet, I’ve only charged it once and that was from 58v that it was delivered with, from what I’ve read charging time should be 5-6hrs.

    Shep

  8. #98
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Northeast
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    17,438
    Quote Originally Posted by Shep1970 View Post
    The mailman came today (motor) This motor pulls a few more amps soooo I’ve got a more powerful controller coming too. (Still on the boat).

    The new controller is good for 80a instead of 40a and will work upto a 3000w motor so I’ve got some wiggle room.
    Same design controller just more powerful.

    Just gotta say I’ve bought a few things through AliExpress (China eBay) this past yr it doesn’t except paypal but all you have to do is contact the seller to send you a paypal receipt (request). I would have gladly bought American made but “we” don’t make anything anymore.......it’s kind of sad actually.

    Attachment 259874 Attachment 259875

    Shep

    No worries, Trump is trying to bring ALL manufacturing back to the USA.

    We never should have let it go in the 1st place! That's what started the influx of China junk...
    All our government does is distract us while they steal from us, misspend our tax $ and ruin our country

  9. #99
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    East of Worcester ma
    --
    1,326
    Quick motor swap, the controller not so much luck (larger) size but I’ll make it fit. The new controller(brain) could supply up to and over 80amps opposed to my original 40amp max controller. The new 2200w motor is rated at 46amps (the old one 31amps)
    The original controller would have worked for this new motor but wouldn’t supply the max power.
    As long as the rain holds off (feels like it could rain any minute) but not supposed to.....
    I should be testing later today
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I know it’s not much to look at but I needed a five min break. Anyhoo thanks for looking.
    Shep

    Oops, and there all crooked
    Last edited by Shep1970; 09-14-2019 at 03:49 PM.

  10. #100
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Manheim, PA
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    5,742
    I'd like to see a video of it roosting sideways. I'm looking forward to electric toys. Less sound more ground! I'm over noise!

  11. #101
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    East of Worcester ma
    --
    1,326
    Well she’s back together, actually had finished up two days ago and and went to start it and nothiing.... after spending a couple hours tracing re-doing a few splices turns out the cheap China connection my bar keyswitch had one of the pins pulled back out of the connector just enough to not make the connection.... trash
    Definetly has a lot more power a little different sound also a bit louder too.
    One thing I need to change is the power cut off when front brake is used, never really realized how much I use the front brakes while riding- well it’s not good to start a slide or doing attempt donuts when the power cuts out.....
    I have to put it through the paces to make sure I won’t have a meltdown with the new motor/controller combo but I’ll post a vid in a couple days.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    My kids say it sounds more like a electric race car now than a kids power wheel.

    Shep

  12. #102
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
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    4,114
    Are you running a china switch like one of the ones below (2nd one just shows connector, same housing).


  13. #103
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    East of Worcester ma
    --
    1,326
    Ps2- I’m running a China switch, the $59 dollar one from that guy in Florida (pic) (eBay) “just” for lights on/off high/low beam. Run off this regulator (pic)
    That’ll be a different circuit run off same battery not hooked up yet (I need another breaker) I don’t need the regulator making heat using up batt life when not needed.

    It’s that $3 dollar crap 2-wire key switch that caused my no start for now it’s hard wired together. You were absolutely right about those China wire connectors- junk. I really need to invest in those white/waterproof like cdi connections you gave me a link to earlier in thread.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Wiring is sooo not my thing....

    This is the light switch wiring not hooked up yet Click image for larger version. 

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    Shep
    Last edited by Shep1970; 09-18-2019 at 12:48 PM.

  14. #104
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
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    4,114
    Ahh I see you're running the knock off 350x style switch. Never bought one of them, but I've read on here when they were more first found that fit and finish was pretty poor, already knew if it was made in china the connections wouldn't be too great.

    That ignition switch appears to be the higher quality style I used to mod, my source for them disappeared off amazon though in like 2014. Sold plastic rain cover with the key cast right inside it, if it's the same switch, the lock cylinder is metal instead of plastic. Besides those two differences, it's the same as the ones I mod today, and the wiring always was junk on both lol. China made isn't about quality, it's about building to a price point, or in this case as cheap as possible where someone will buy it and it might work.

    What dash is that, looks kind of like the 200x style dash but black and I think the key is on the opposite side? Wonder if the handle bar mount spacing is right for the 350x and such (100mm or 110mm something like that).

    For lights, I'd think you could wire the DC to DC converter off what normally comes out as the tail light wire (brown) and run the wire back to the switch after converted to power the light switches, would take some internal wiring work to make it happen though.

    Just for the fun of it, can you link the source for that ignition switch? I might grab one to check the quality. I rewire them all so if that's the only issue it might be a good option for ones to mod.

    Still kind of crazy the knock off 350x switches sell for so much, the two china ones I linked are like $5 + shipping and newer Honda ones can be had for around $50 if you poke around enough and don't care about what connectors are on the wires.

    For the non sealed connectors (ones with no o-ring or rubber seal), dielectric grease works well to semi waterproof the connections. Same stuff that comes with new spark plug wires. Dielectric grease is plastic/rubber safe.

    Talking connectors, there's so many options you could go with, but for the location of that ignition switch and the tooling needed etc, I'd say just 2x 3.5mm bullet terminals would do just fine there. Here's my listing to show what I mean, unless you have water proof connectors for everything, I wouldn't stress about it too much, the OEM Honda ones have lasted 30+ years in the weather so I'd think good quality connectors should do similar. Doubt you leave your machine sit in the rain anyway =).

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/192057685664

    BTW, glad I see you use the 3M style butt connectors that actually seal the connection =). Probably the best consumer option with out buying expensive tooling and such (solding works but requires skill and the right type of heat shrink).

  15. #105
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    East of Worcester ma
    --
    1,326
    That’s just the 87 200x dash, I’ve got a few sets made some are a off color (just me experimenting) I’ve sold a hand full of them/ just takes a lot of time listing/packing them. I’ll get back on it soon
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I’ll see if I still have the eBay link to that keyswitch(it’s been on my shelf for a while)

    Shep

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