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Thread: Possible To Have Stator Wire In Front (Visible?)

  1. #16
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    If the brown wire is shorted out, it could make the lights go out I suspect, never tired it but seems to make sense. Might have to poke around a bit on the harness to try to find a bad wire or bad connection. There should be a yellow wire that connects to the engine's stator, that would be the main "hot" wire since it's AC power. Ohm testing it to the headlight blue/white wires while wiggling possible problem areas (tail light area for a short, and the handle bar switch connector). Another possible cause could be corroded switches for the handle bar switches, probably more likely I'd think.

    As far as the exciter coil, if it's working and you soldered it well, I don't see that being a problem in the near future. You should know pretty fast if it is going to be a problem or not. You could put heat shrink over it, but it might get too hot there for typical heat shrink spec. As the saying goes, don't fix what is not broken, if it's working well, then unlikely you need to "fix " it. Not really a thing to live by, but in this case I think it's pretty safe to go by that.

  2. #17
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    I'm curious, since there is no taillight, would it be beneficial to disconnect the brown and green wire from the wiring harness that runs along the frame to the taillight and remove them? Or whether they're there with electrical tape or wire ends on each wire out the back, or whether they're removed, it makes no difference? If the brown and green wire were connected instead of wire plugs on each, would it be beneficial to the electrical system or make no difference? I have the service manual with the wiring diagram and it looks like the headlight and taillight run off the same wire, so I'm confused how the headlight works sometimes if the taillight is nonexistent with 2 wires not connected.

    Will be buying electrical 101 books...

  3. #18
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    The wiring won't make any difference assuming there's no problems with the brown wire.

    To sum up the related wires for most Honda machines:

    Green = Ground
    Yellow or White with Yellow stripe = Power/Hot wire (Generally AC)
    Brown = Hot wire for tail light
    Blue = Hot wire for headlight (Brights)
    White = Hot wire for headlight (Dims)

    The way the headlight switches work, whenever the lights are on dim or brings, the brown wire also is connected to the power. If you wanted to disconnect the wires to the tail light area, the handle bar switch connector would be where you'd pull the terminal. The green wire is ground, so it can be shorted to the frame and not make any difference at all.

    Here's the table of the connections that visualize what's going on a little easier than trying to explain it in words. The (N) position is between low and high, it's a spot where both the bright and dim element gets power, pretty much ignore that line since it's not standard usage. It's good to view it as yellow wire as the power source, and the brown, white, and blue wires as what is getting powered.



    Hopefully that made some sort of sense for you.

  4. #19
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    You've got me in the right direction for the headlight as well, but still having an issue. My dim switch has never worked, and the headlight only sometimes comes on. Tested lighting coil for continuity like service manual says, got OL. Tested the continuity on an old engine, as well as my other ATC with working headlights, and got the same OL reading. But I get continuity touching probes, and excitor coil. So not sure if that test is working.

    Shooting for the stars here since I know I've asked a ton of questions! Bought new crimps/connectors and ready to dig in. The dimmer never worked, and I can't remember if the off position worked since I never used it. Bulb is good. Dimmer switch plastic is broken but has been taped on. Kill switch unplugged, when plugged in the engine won't start.

    In the pictures, the previous owner had the yellow wire from stator coil soldered on somewhere on dimmer switch I think. I say this because the tip has solder on it. The other part of that break in yellow wire in pic I am putting new crimp on but twisted it for test before pic. The brown wire off dimmer switch was connected with blue wire in headlight. The brown wire is looped on 2 probes in the dimmer switch. Maybe to bypass low beams. I ran the green ground from headlight to a bolt on recoil starter to make sure it's grounded, but it was plugged into splitter with other ground for killswitch. This setup was how I bought it 4 years ago, and the headlight sometimes worked.

    Since I couldn't figure out dimmer switch, I tried to bypass it so lights are always on. Yellow wire to blue headlight wire, headlight green to ground. Continuity was .02 or so, so it seemed good. Started motor, revved, no headlight. Please help! Does anyone know which probes on the dimmer do what? There's like 6 of them with no identifiers, and only the brown wire in pic was plugged into anything. And yellow wire wherever it was soldered on. Thanks in advance!!!!!!!

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  5. #20
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    To bypass the headight switch, you'd connect the yellow wire to the blue (or white) on the headlight, and the brown wire from the harness if you want taillight power. Green wire is universal ground, so easiest would be to plug it into the double female connection by the neck in the 2nd photo.

    Looks like the yellow wire broke off the headlight switch. I'm not used to that style of switch so can't really say where it normally hooks up exactly, but the image I posted is the table of how the switch should function.

    It might be easiest to put a headlight switch on the handle bars. I could wire up a chinese one if you want. It also has a kill switch built into it.

    Not real sure what 0L is for sure, but with the probes not touching it should read one value (basically infinity ohms), and when you short the probes together it should read about 0 ohms. A lot of them have a beep setting so when they touch it beeps. If I recall correctly, the lighting coil test is just checking if it has connection between the two alternator wires (yellow to yellow, or yellow to green, depending on the machine). Some machines don't have the alternator grounded internally, so there is commonly a ring terminal that bolts somewhere on the frame, most often at the ignition coil. This will be needed for the coil/spark plug to function. I checked my multi-meter real quick and I get a "0.F" reading for no connection. Not sure what the letter means, but just means no connection.

    Anyway, assuming your harness is pretty hacked up, I could make a replacement. However, I don't think I have one for that year to base the reproduction on, so I'd have to shop around for one to copy that has all it's connectors and such.

    Anyway back on the diag work. If you can't get a good reading off the alternator wires, then that could be the cause of the lights not working always, but my eye goes to the hacked up wiring and think what else has been hacked up in the harness and the fact it appears wires are breaking apart/getting brittle.

    Another test you could do is to disconnect the alternator wires (yellow+yellow or yellow+green) assuming the black/red wire can be left hooked up for the CDI to function. Put the meter in AC volts mode and take a reading while the engine is running between the two wires from the engine side. You should have a fairly consistent voltage. If it jumps to 0 and back up to the normal voltage and such, then the issue is with the lighting coil. If not then it sounds to be a poor connection somewhere (or multi-able spots) or even a broken wire. Oh I found the specs for a 200es lighting coil, should read 0.1-1ohms

    I got fancy and wrote on one of your images lol. Did you hook up the wires like I marked in the image? Of course don't forget to have the engine alternator plugged in to the harness too.

    Oh also, you can test the kill switch too. Black/White to Green should have connection when switched to off, no connection when switched to on. Also if you want to replace terminals with the OEM style ones, they are 3.5mm bullet terminals. I buy mine from cycle terminal.

    http://www.cycleterminal.com/bullet-terminals.html

    Last edited by ps2fixer; 11-15-2018 at 02:13 AM.

  6. #21
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    Jun 2017
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    You are the man, thanks so much for all the help! Had some fun doin it too. Problem has been diagnosed with the headlight, the socket where the headlight pushes into is bad. I checked continuity from all wires and all is good. The lightbulb socket actually has continuity, but the lightbulb won't brighten when screwed in, even when wiggled in there. I grounded a wire from frame and hooked it onto the lightbulb plate itself, twisted the white, blue, and yellow wires together, started engine, and touched the wires to the lightbulb terminal and that baby brightened. So even the dimmer switch may be good, but the socket is bad. Not sure how this would happen if I have continuity through it...

    Question is, where do you buy a new one that fits in there? Both my ATCs have the original Stanley socket, same model, looked it up online and didn't see them for sale anymore. Are there any stores that would carry something that could work I could get tonight?

  7. #22
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    What are your plans for the headlight? The headlight housing is broken (where the headlight switch is). If you're replacing it with OEM, you might luck out and get the sub harness with the head light. If you don't care about sticking to OEM, you could get like a 200ES housing and put a standard 4x6 headlight in it (i think that's the right size), and it uses the standard H4 headlight plug like old cars/trucks.

    If you really want that socket, I have one from a ATC185, pretty sure it would fit. I'll just have to dig it up and get photos if you're interested. The actual stocket I don't think is very standardize so finding new might not be possible.

    One thing to check on the bulb is both bight and dim. The metal around the base of the bulb is the ground wire, the two nubs on the bottom are for bright vs dim connection. Sometimes a new bulb can fix connection problems, the lead/solder on the bottom can wear over time from the vibrations. That's how my 350x headlight was like atleast. Just make sure to order the same wattage bulb, any automotive parts store should have them, even walmart and such probably has the bulbs since I'm pretty sure the connection interface is pretty standard, just the socket design to the headlight housing is a weird design. Personally I'd try a new bulb first, then look at replacing the socket/sub harness, or get some other headlight to use instead. LED headlights are common, but it's generally best to have a "DC Power kit" on the machine so it can run off DC. Most can run off AC but might run a little hotter/last not as long.

  8. #23
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    I'd love to just get a new headlight but I see used ones going on Ebay for a pretty penny. The headlight lenses on Ebay don't include that socket (Stanley 60766). I've attached some pictures. I was just wondering if there was an autopart or home improvement store that would sell something remotely similar to fit through the hole, even if I have to make some modifications/putty it on/anything. Spent so much money lately, just want to get riding and now it's dark after work...

    I tried putting the bulb from my other working '81 ATC 200 and it didn't work. Is it possible to remove the brown backing plate where the lightbulb terminals touch, take out the spring, and resolder some wires onto it? Or are these generally not fixable?Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #24
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    Yea the sockets can be taken apart. It's hard to see with the plastic cupler thing around it, but the 350x sockets are the same basic design, just it mounts between a holder and the headlight housing instead of the twist in style. On those, you push the brown part with the contacts down and angle it so one side with the tab can clear the metal cage it's in. Other side should slip out and you have the terminals/wire/spring accessible. Looking at the photos, the socket looks to be in good shape overall.

    With no bulb hooked up, does the blue/white wires have any connection? If they do then a wire broke off and is shorting out on the spring. Also test the two to the green wire. All 3 wires should have no connection when it's good. I suspect you'll have to solder the wire on to the back side of the terminals if that's the case. Not sure what kind of soldering experience you have, but if you don't have the stuff already, get "electrical" leaded solder, 60/40 is most common, but the better mix is 63/37. I personally use the brand Kester, it's expensive but works great. There's two types of electrical solder, one is solid wire, and the other has a flux in the center. For this kind of work flux in the center makes it a lot easier to work with. You'll also need some flux to apply on the wire/terminal backs. Tin the wire end first, then flux again and melt the two together.

    How does the headlight bucket attach to the ring around it? If it's a couple of spring wire on each side, it should be the same style headlight ring I was talking about before. I have one LED headlight left from when I ordered a bunch before for the 200ES application. The inside of the lens fogged up a bit with some crystal formation (silicone?), but I could update the wiring to work on your machine. It's a 45/45w LED head light, so it should match your OEM headlight bulb. I've had good luck running it off a machine with no battery, but it was a 200es which has a voltage regulator/rectifier. I'm planning to make a "DC Power Kit" pretty soon, so maybe you could be a tester.

    I went to where I had the headlight type parts at, didn't see the headlight sub harness that you need, but I have a housing, ring, and headlight. The plastic housing is far from good shape, cracks in quite a few spots, but better than what you're working with right now. I grabbed some photos of everything. I don't have the mounting springs for the headlight, if you don't have them you'd need them from somewhere else, not really sure of a good source except used. This housing was originally from a 200E, I can measure the width of it if you want to be sure it's the right width for your headlight mounts. I should have the nuts for the inside of the housing around somewhere too, just didn't see them right away. I did have the headlight socket listed on ebay for a while, I don't recall if it sold or not though.

    Oh also, if you do get your socket apart, be sure the terminals are installed the same way, or else the blue/white wire functions will reverse. Also the LED headlight has a plastic cover, so it can scratch up fairly easy. Kind of expected when it's made in China.
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  10. #25
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    The ground wire coming out of the sub-harness/socket is bad. It doesn't look like I can get in there to resolder it without removing the metal plate somehow, or breaking open the little slot the wire goes through to get to the metal. Lightbulb works when hooked up with an extra ground coming from engine to the outside lightbulb metal plate, so I'm gonna solder a little spot right there just to ride this weekend. Or maybe try to cut open the plastic where the ground goes and solder it back to the metal!

    You have me intrigued with these headlights especially the LED but I don't know how well LED works on a machine w/o battery or rectifier. And I have one spring screw but i'd be in the same boat missing a sub-harness that works and a dim switch. If you still have the LED light when you make the DC Power Kit, I'm definitely interested. When are you thinkin?

  11. #26
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    The DC Power kit I have to order the components from China and do some testing to make sure they can handle more electrical load than what these machines should ever experience (200w with my 350x). The actual adapter wire I can make any time, I just want to hand test 2-3 different regulator options to see if one is better than the other etc. The LED headlight is already wired for a 200ES, should be the same connections your headlight had stock too.

    Here is the headlight to ring clip/spring you need. Two total, one for each side of the headlight.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-Honda-...S!-1:rk:1:pf:0

    Here's a listing showing how the clip is installed holding the headlight. There's no adjustment to the headlight like yours, it's purely adjustable by the two bolts that holds the headlight on (up/down). Also note in the listing, there's no green wire! Clearly that must be a common issue lol.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-200-A...91e:rk:25:pf:0

    Anyway, at low rpm you might notice a little bit of flickering, but since the regulator/rectifier is full wave, it shouldn't be easy to see the flicker. If I've done my math right, 1400rpm / 60 minutes to get cycles per second = 23.3hz, it's full wave rectifier, so it doubles that number to 46.6hz. House lighting can use 60hz and not be noticeable, but sometimes can cause headaches for some. I doubt that's a common thing for atv riding though. 60hz should be right around 1800rpm. Really, the stock headlight flickers too the same way at half the hz, however the headlight design is slow to dim when it looses power, LEDs are near instant.

    Anyway, thinking out loud on the headlight socket problem. Since it's already basically junk, might be worth trying to cut some of the plastic covering off, just enough to solder a wire to the metal on the side. Might be quite a challenge to solder to somewhat thick steel and the plastic around it makes it even harder with a high chance of melting. The new Honda sockets I get/mod for the 350x are spot welded for the ground. I bought some Chinese ones before and they are riveted on. I think if you can get the socket apart (the terminal plate out) and get the wires out of the way, you could put a small ring terminal on the green wire and rivet that to the steel inside of the socket (near the bottom) and do alright. Of course you could solder a wire direct to the bulb too. Not the most ideal, but should function. Just careful not to shock the glass too much.

    EDIT: Also I could always buy more LED headlights. They are not like super super high quality, but it isn't bad at all for Chinese built, just the plastic lens is my only complaint. If I remember right, the wire size wasn't half bad either. I was selling these for the 200ES application (or 200E), but personally I have one on a 250ES which has the regulator/rectifier and a 200w alternator. I know the light is very bright though, people at trike fest were holding their arm up shelling from the light, and it was on dim (I burnt out the bright circuit when testing it on a battery charger, too high of voltage I guess).

    Talking about trike fest, my cousin and I were helping light up the herk n jerk. This video I found has us blinding the camera quite a lot. My light is on the far far left, the light on the right is a 27w LED fog light (he also had one on his rear rack facing more down, when the machine gets pulled back you can see just how dim the OEM style lights are lol. You can see all 3 lights at 6:30. I only had dims, it's about twice as bright on brigs lol. 15x 3w LEDs, dim = 6 light up if I remember correctly. You can compare the light when we left at around 20:40. Had some people being not so nice so I had to get away and go riding.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DULyC0Im8BI&t=235
    Last edited by ps2fixer; 11-16-2018 at 01:00 AM.

  12. #27
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    Oh just nice while poking around searching for options for headlight sockets for you that the clips I mentioned before to hold the headlight in are still in production by honda, about $10 each. Part number is 33109-440-931

    Also found new headlight sockets (wrong wiring but the socket is the important part), but the store is currently out of stock. Appears to be Chinese built. Might be a possible new product for me to focus on some time and cover all the 3 wheelers that use that style of socket.

    Also another side note, I found another 200es headlight plastic bucket in better visual shape, but the plastic is still deformed/beat up a little. The bottom two headlight screws will probably have to be drilled out. Also have a headlight guard, not sure if that would bolt directly on your machine or not though. And the last thing of course is the headlight socket + bulb. It's a different design that has the ground wire connect via a space connection. Found myself a new mini sub harness to cover lol.

    Found this too, NOS, but seems like the price is pretty fair for what it is. Seems to be a true NOS too.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Honda-S...-/122683310896

  13. #28
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    After you mentioned the LED lights I did some research and am very interested but how much do you think the rectifier would be? I was able to get my headlight to work, drilling a new hole through the plastic and running the ground through it and soldering it onto the base where the lightbulb presses in. It still looks like crap though and LED would do wonders if it's after work getting dark and I'm lost in the Everglades, like usual.

    Took her out for the first time today and had a blast. It's the dry season and you can now go further and further into the Everglades. But definitely need back mud tires. Do yall have any experience with some good ones? I was looking at the Innova Mud Gear 25x12-9, which would set me back about $225 - $250 for 2. Also looking at ITP Mud Lite which are cheaper but less aggressive tread. I've also read that both of them don't clean themselves out well if caked with mud, so I'm a little cautious. The mudpits back there can be like quicksand, so looking for something more quality that clears themselves and will get you through anything. Thanks for any suggestions!

  14. #29
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    I had great experience with Highlifter Outlaws. Here's 28's on a Yamaha Blaster frame with a TX500 engine (unfinished project). Was running them on a 350 warrior before my family got into Honda. They also made 25in, but the problem is, so much of the height is lug it was a bit easy to bottom out on my 250es, but as long as I didn't give it too much gas I could go though most things. Around 26-27in would probably be ideal for 25in stock size. Don't forget gearing though, the tires don't spin/sling mud, it just paddles though it, hard to explain. They tear up grass really bad, the tires are always trying to scoop lol.

    The 28's were $100 each + rims back when we bought them, prices have gone up a lot since then though. The used set I put on my 250es cost me $100 for the pair and included rims, it was a steal of a deal. Sold them to a friend of my cousin that couldn't get over how much I could go though vs his 4x4 quad

    Some day I need to build a wire harness for that blaster and get the exhaust system situated. Should be fun having a twin with 49hp stock lol.
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  15. #30
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    I read your post and began doing some research. It doesn't look like the Highlifter Outlaws come in 25x12-9, and there's 2 inches between my 25x12-9s and the plastics. The trike has no suspension, so maybe 26x12-9 would work but would it make a huge difference? I don't ride on road so paying extra for a good set of 2 I think would last long. I see the good lookin ones going for $250 - $280 for the ones with the aggressive deep tread. Is this the way to go, or do the ITP mud lites for $60 - $75 each on Amazon do the same job? Hass anyone tried the Innova Mud Gears or the 2 below? The swamp is like quicksand, so I thought the deeper the tread the better but I see a lot of people saying the mud lites and mud gear do the job...

    https://simpletire.com/kenda-26-12-1...%20085381299C1

    http://www.traxms.com/product/SET_IN...Q-25-9-12.html

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