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Thread: 200es engine removal

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Mid-Wales - United Kingdom
    --
    16
    Going to get it running before we paint , one good thing about pulling it to bits a second time will be no seized bolts

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Mid-Wales - United Kingdom
    --
    16
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Engine stripped, & built back up, still not sure why it would not run before, the bore was very moist when pulled down, all been well she will run when bolted back together !

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Mid-Wales - United Kingdom
    --
    16
    Had some more time getting towards finishing my rebuild today, & yes she now runs like a dream all been well we will have the rear fenders & seat back on tomorrow & take it for a good off road test, the rear breaks still don't work & need stripping so will have to go steady with only front breaks.

    Pulled the valves out of the old head today & it looks like the problem not running may have been caused by a massive build up of carbon on the exhaust valve seat & not allowing compression, Having bought it as a none runner we were looking for the problem blind,

    All in all a good result now she is running

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Mid-Wales - United Kingdom
    --
    16
    Oh, forgot to ask - Dose any one know why there may have been such a ridiculous amount of carbon under the exhaust valve seat ?

    Thanks
    BB

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    MI, USA
    --
    2,713
    I'd guess it was running too rich. Makes sense if the exhaust valve was sticking open a little that you'd have lack of compression and running problems though, seems like a good spot for the possible main problem.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Mid-Wales - United Kingdom
    --
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by ps2fixer View Post
    I'd guess it was running too rich. Makes sense if the exhaust valve was sticking open a little that you'd have lack of compression and running problems though, seems like a good spot for the possible main problem.

    Ok thanks for the reply, After having a decent test ride today I noticed she is also running very lumpy on tick over & stops after about 15 seconds when left ticking over, any ideas on possible causes ?Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    MI, USA
    --
    2,713
    Some new terms there that I'm not used to seeing, might be a UK/Europe thing?

    Guessing tick over = idle? and Lumpy is mis firing?

    Pull the spark plug out and take a photo of it. Black gunky looking plug = poor spark or carb adjusted too rich, white powder = carb too lean, light brown powder = just right.

    Here's a photo reference, these are from a car which has an ECU, so normally can get a perfect mixture, but for us with carbs, generally a tiny bit rich is ideal. The closest plug looks about like what I'd want the 3 wheeler plug to look like, ones in the back are likely too perfect to be attainable without an ECU setup or tuning every week or more. Much darker brown or black is what I'm expecting to see from your machine though.


  8. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Mid-Wales - United Kingdom
    --
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by ps2fixer View Post
    Some new terms there that I'm not used to seeing, might be a UK/Europe thing?

    Guessing tick over = idle? and Lumpy is mis firing?

    Pull the spark plug out and take a photo of it. Black gunky looking plug = poor spark or carb adjusted too rich, white powder = carb too lean, light brown powder = just right.

    Here's a photo reference, these are from a car which has an ECU, so normally can get a perfect mixture, but for us with carbs, generally a tiny bit rich is ideal. The closest plug looks about like what I'd want the 3 wheeler plug to look like, ones in the back are likely too perfect to be attainable without an ECU setup or tuning every week or more. Much darker brown or black is what I'm expecting to see from your machine though.


    Thanks for the plug info, will have a play around with the carb a bit later, the spark seems pretty good when I checked that.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    MI, USA
    --
    2,713
    The visual spark means nothing unless it's orange/red which is 100% weak. You can have bright blue/white spark and still have weak spark. A proper tester gaps it around 6mm and if it can't jump the gap it's not enough spark to run the engine while under compression (10x more dense air + fuel droplets in the air and like 200mph winds).

    Here's a good video to show this can be the case. The tester he uses is a fairly expensive one but is a nice one if you work around engines a lot. It's an Oppama PET-4000, there's cheaper versions of it that are not adjustable. It's kind of like a simplified KV tester (wider the gap, the more KV). Since the engine runs, I'd assume it doesn't have weak spark, but it can be a possible issue.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dipmevU5cjU

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Mid-Wales - United Kingdom
    --
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by ps2fixer View Post
    The visual spark means nothing unless it's orange/red which is 100% weak. You can have bright blue/white spark and still have weak spark. A proper tester gaps it around 6mm and if it can't jump the gap it's not enough spark to run the engine while under compression (10x more dense air + fuel droplets in the air and like 200mph winds).

    Here's a good video to show this can be the case. The tester he uses is a fairly expensive one but is a nice one if you work around engines a lot. It's an Oppama PET-4000, there's cheaper versions of it that are not adjustable. It's kind of like a simplified KV tester (wider the gap, the more KV). Since the engine runs, I'd assume it doesn't have weak spark, but it can be a possible issue.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dipmevU5cjU
    Just had a play about with the idle mixture screw & she seems to be good on tick over now, she runs nice & there is no flat spot when rev'ed up, thanks to every one for all the advice & encouragment. The next job will be a rear dif bearings in about a month they have a small amount of play when you rock the bike left to right.

    I will pop some more post's up once we get into this,

    Happy new year to ya all ,,

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    MI, USA
    --
    2,713
    Not a problem, glad you got things working well.

    Rear bearings should be pretty easy, assuming the rear axle isn't rusted up like the 99 warrior my dad and I mudded like crazy for several years before replacing them (it took a press and a lot of heat to get it apart).

    While you're checking bearings over, check the swing arm bearings, steering stem bearings, and front axle bearings. It seems they fail at a similar rate, probably more due to conditions more than general wear.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Mid-Wales - United Kingdom
    --
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by ps2fixer View Post
    Not a problem, glad you got things working well.

    Rear bearings should be pretty easy, assuming the rear axle isn't rusted up like the 99 warrior my dad and I mudded like crazy for several years before replacing them (it took a press and a lot of heat to get it apart).

    While you're checking bearings over, check the swing arm bearings, steering stem bearings, and front axle bearings. It seems they fail at a similar rate, probably more due to conditions more than general wear.
    Cheers , will go right through it " The middle part is done now " the back end next & then finish on the front , some time in the future .

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Edmond, KS
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    1,507
    Don't worry about swingarm bearings. A 200Es doesn't have rear suspension so it has a solid "swingarm" with no bearings.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    MI, USA
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    2,713

  15. #30
    wellys88 is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerFirst time rider
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    WA
    --
    187
    Do you have a picture of the rear of the bike I'm interested in seeing what decals are on the rear of the fenders. That's. Cool project. Best of luck with it!

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