Disappointed in today's Honda plastics

[El Camexican]

Honda is really going down hill on their quality on plastics and paint! I have owned several Honda Recons and the plastics fade easy and the paint peels off, WTH!they no longer powdercoat? The paint peels right off the frame and if you power wash the rims paint flys off them to. I am really disappointed, I wouldn't be surprised if they are getting complaints, guess it's all about profit .I noticed some parts are no longer made in Japan, that explains it alot, I'd bet the fenders are made in China.

I wouldn't blame Honda so much as the trend towards eco-friendly products. There's probably a lot of chemicals in 30 year old paint and plastic that aren't used anymore. Mom still has the Tupperware she got for her wedding and my lead saturated plastic Fisher Price stackable cups look exactly the same as they did 50 years before passing through ten kids and hundreds of hours of use in a sandbox. Ask any woman over the age of 80 how long their first set of pantyhose lasted.

It's all cr*p now. The wires I've seen on newer dirt bikes are more brittle after a couple years than the ones on my 30 year old trike.

[ps2fixer]

Not to try to do self promotion or anything, but one of my machines that has my first wire harness I built is around 6 years old and it sits outside. Besides being dirty, it feels just like when I first made it. It's also true 18 gauge wiring, not this 22-20 gauge tiny stuff I keep getting when modifying harnesses and parts from Honda.

I agree though, most things are throwaway now, before you'd get things fixed, now you just throw it away and buy a new one. Because of the cycle it creates, those companies benefit more than real quality ones, so I doubt we will ever go back to "the good old days". However if enough people vote (with their money), the high quality companies can out perform cheap knockoffs. It's a bit of a balance between quality and final price.

Heck, I've noticed it in my life time (31 now) that socks used to last quite a long time, now it's like 2-3 times wearing them and they get holes in them.

[El Camexican]

Not to try to do self promotion or anything, but one of my machines that has my first wire harness I built is around 6 years old and it sits outside. Besides being dirty, it feels just like when I first made it. It's also true 18 gauge wiring, not this 22-20 gauge tiny stuff I keep getting when modifying harnesses and parts from Honda.

I agree though, most things are throwaway now, before you'd get things fixed, now you just throw it away and buy a new one. Because of the cycle it creates, those companies benefit more than real quality ones, so I doubt we will ever go back to "the good old days". However if enough people vote (with their money), the high quality companies can out perform cheap knockoffs. It's a bit of a balance between quality and final price.

Heck, I've noticed it in my life time (31 now) that socks used to last quite a long time, now it's like 2-3 times wearing them and they get holes in them.

Mom says her first pair of pantyhose lasted 2 years. Nylon socks got grown out of (yuck) and your right, todays socks and underwear seem to be wearing out faster, but I find now that it's cheaper to buy them than have them washed at hotels, so I usually toss a bunch of used ones in my suitcase and come home in the last pair when I travel and then buy a new bag at Wal-Mart.

I don't know what's going on with wires. Someone told me that the coatings on newer automotive harnesses are made from vegetable derivatives and that's why rats and mice like to gnaw on them. The ones on my KTM's are stiff as house wires after a few years, but the Polisport plastics seems to be pretty good compared to Maier plastic.

I guess it makes sense not to contaminate the Earth in order to have things last forever, but I do dislike planned obsolescence like salt testing to make sure cars rot out as soon as possible after the warrantees run out.

[ps2fixer]

Not too far off from what I've heard on the wiring stuff, but it's soy based. There's been a few lawsuits for atleast Japanese made vehicles on that topic. Not sure if any American made or other countries were hit with this or not though.

Honda (looks like Honda won) - https://www.classaction.org/news/law...y-based-wiring
Subaru - https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2...-lawsuit.shtml
Toyota (sounds lke it was related to the Honda case) - https://www.autonews.com/article/201...y-based-wiring

Seems like around 2012 is when that wiring came into mainstream use, pretty easy solution, but 2010 or older vehicles =). Both of mine are from the 90's, but I fix them up myself to save money too. I have a hard time buying anything 2000 or newer, seems like everything went to plastic around that time.

Wire has been made the same way for a very long time, I don't see why something so critical needs to please the EPA, I'd rather have the interior made from soy than the wiring. It might look like crap in a few years, but atleast the vehicle will run/drive still.

[Dirtweed]

I suspect it's a little hard for white to fade =)

The dirt does get ground into the tank cover from my knees rubbing into it. I ordered a new tank plastic to keep in the basement for when I am old and can't ride it anymore so it looks good. ;-)

[El Camexican]

Bob Lazar says ..........theres no buttons or dials in Alien technology..........it`s all controlled by telepathy ! ........now thats fresh !

Why not? That’s how my d*** worked when I was young, just had to think of where I wanted it to go and bam, it would point the way. Now I need to pull start it. I think the batteries are dead.

[BOB MARLIN]

Marine grade wire is made different than regular wire. The wire and insulation are different because they have to meet strict requirements for marine applications. I bet a wire harness made from it would last a while.

[ps2fixer]

Marine grade wire is made different than regular wire. The wire and insulation are different because they have to meet strict requirements for marine applications. I bet a wire harness made from it would last a while.

I don't know what the specs would be exactly as I never worked with Marine wire, but I can speculate. I'd assume the wire and insulation doesn't have much different about it, maybe slightly more rubbery for better flexibility, and more strand count to handle the vibrations and such (like battery cable grade wire). The big different is how the harness is assembled for that application I think. I'd assume all connectors are a sealing type, all wire splices are water proof sealed, and maybe even the tubing is sealed to the wires.

Application dictates a lot about wiring, like generally speaking very high temp wire is stiff, like the GXL 105C wire I use is much more stiff than the Honda wire that comes on ignition switches, but the insulation melts when I solder to the wires, while the GXL wire doesn't show any signs of heat. There's a couple terminals I don't have a super great crimper for, so I crimp + solder to make sure it's a good connection that won't fail.

Anyway, the old wire that came on these 3 wheelers are over 30 years old, that'd going pretty good. How many tires do you have around that's 30 years old? Even if you didn't drive on them, they tend to dry rot (sun rot) and crack up etc. Pretty much the same process as wire insulation.

If you want to talk about strict standards, check out some aircraft wiring, I can't imagine how much time it takes to twist those wires like that and such. Here's a good read if you have any interest in harness constructions and making a harness for the most extreme of conditions (mainly salt, salt water etc sealing).

https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/wiring_ecu.html

Here's a couple photos of interest.





I always thought network closets were a nightmare to deal with till I saw that pic above lol. Here's an example of a typical network closet (left side). The right side is the same thing, just covers to hide the mess and they tidied it up a bit. Lower left section has a bunch of wires not connected, in the right photo they just removed it, have to love that "marketing" techniques. Looks like the right side is missing some hardware too.



Best part is, I wasn't even on the networking team working in those areas, but I didn't mind learning and not having to call some guy at 4am to run a wire for me (was a midnight worker).

[El Camexican]

I was always of the belief that marine wireing was all about the connectors, but a lot of modern automotive connectors seem to seal in a simular manner as the ones I remember.

Sea air will take out a cheap wiring harness pretty fast. My buddy’s Ducati harness came apart in less than two years due to corrosion during shipping. The Japanese used a special grease back then to protect the connectors and Ducati didn’t.

[ps2fixer]

Yea, the northern states have a ton of salt on the roads, and more extreme and corrosive chemicals (calcium chloride) when it gets really cold. For the most part, automotive harnesses hold up just fine here (speaking of atleast Japanese stuff, a lot of usa made cars are known for electrical problems here though, like a grand am/sun fire etc from the 90's era). The worst problem we have here with cars is the body rusting away.

I wonder what kind of grease was used as an anti corrosive. A lot of the terminals I use are tin plated brass. I have a harness on a machine that's been in the weather for around 5 or 6 years now, and it's still in great shape besides being dirty. Kind of my test harness for longevity, and it's the first harness I ever made lol. Anyway, dielectric grease is used a lot in the automotive world, wouldn't be surprised if it was something similar to that, or maybe white lithium grease. I use the white lithium to lube contacts and be a bit of anti corrosion for the China stuff I mod.

I haven't had a chance to make a custom harness for like someone racing on the salt flats down south. Would probably be an interesting build, but I'd need more or less all the wiring and plug in parts to modify.

Anyway, seems like a sealed connector would be good for any application that needs to be sealed. Of course there's exceptions to that, like sealing while under pressure (like under water wiring. In my thinking, the manufacturers of the connectors would want to make their sealed connector work in as many applications as possible so less models to make, and less overhead/design costs etc. I bought some sleeving for bullet terminals that are actually a sealing style which from my understanding is used for jetski harnesses just encase anyone ever requests water proof connections, or my own wiring projects on cars etc where I want to use simple bullets and have them sealed.

I've noticed both automotive and atv harnesses have been using more and more sealed connections. Should be a good sign, but sadly the wire will likely fail after about the same amount of time, just saves some harnesses from failing sooner from corrosion.