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Thread: Help with my 1985 atc 200x

  1. #61
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    Apr 2012
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    I spy some highlifter outlaws. Are those outlaw 2's or the orig outlaws? I guess they make outlaw 3's now too. Older the design, the lighter from what I've read.

  2. #62
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    Apr 2014
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    Edmond, KS
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    That's a nice looking Foreman. The engine of this 200X is the only thing that wasn't torn apart on the trike. I got it for free. The guy I got it from said that the engine had no compression because you could grab the "end of the cam" and spin it over by hand. I took the CDI cover off, and yes, it turns over by hand. I removed the pick up on the end of the cam and there was no pin holding it to the cam. I put a socket on the crank and it sure feels like it has compression. That's as far as I got on this project so far.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    NC
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    87
    Quote Originally Posted by ps2fixer View Post
    I spy some highlifter outlaws. Are those outlaw 2's or the orig outlaws? I guess they make outlaw 3's now too. Older the design, the lighter from what I've read.
    Yes first generation outlaws, just when they started making the 29.5 which is what mime are. Remember then it costed $605 to the door for them. They are hard to beat in the toughest mud. I had a set of 27's before I had those, sold to a friend with a 350 rancher then upgraded. Here is a list of mods on my foreman.

    Motor has been bored 2mm to 452cc with a wiesco high compression piston 10.2 to 1 was 433cc stock.
    Web camshaft modified performance cam
    New oem cam chain, and tensioner
    New one way clutch bearing
    Highlifter centrifugal clutch springs raises engagement 300 to 400 rpms.
    New centrifugal clutch shoes.
    Ebc dirt racer change clutch and springs
    All new bottom end bearings
    New crankshaft
    Highlifter pull start delete kit.
    K&n filter, carb is running a 155 main jet versus the 130 stock
    Dual snorkels I custom built with removable top pipes that thread in to change length. All the air lines run into the snorkel system
    Crankcase breather is looped over the carb intake and into the airbox.
    HMF performance exhaust.

    Drive train.

    Warn 4-2-4 select 2x4 to 4x4 shifter
    Trac tech detroit locker in the front differential
    Gorilla axles on the front
    Drilled the rear end for grease fittings on each side of the rear differential, and near the motors universal joint
    Original highlifter rear disc brake conversion kit
    2.5" highlifter aluminum wheel spacers on front
    29.5x10-12 up front 29.5x12.5-12 on the rear with old school itp bullet hole steel wheels.

    Suspension
    I used the highlifter lift springs purchased 2 new rear shocks, swapped the tops of them with the front shocks I removed and installed them on the front to level the quad out.
    Highlifter lift kit, now has 18.5" ground clearance.

    Frame and racks has been sprayed with rhino liner
    Removed the rear cargo box, added a steel plate and installed a 2000lb superwinch on the rear under the plastic
    Front has a 2000lb superwinch also.
    Mounted the winch rocker switches recessed in the rack on the front and rear
    Warn pushbar bumper with trail lights.

    Im sure their are ore details but I cannot remember off hand. I did go completely through the motor, transmission, top end frame and drivetrain when I built it. It is probably the toughest foreman I have come across.

  4. #64
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    Nov 2018
    Location
    NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350for350 View Post
    That's a nice looking Foreman. The engine of this 200X is the only thing that wasn't torn apart on the trike. I got it for free. The guy I got it from said that the engine had no compression because you could grab the "end of the cam" and spin it over by hand. I took the CDI cover off, and yes, it turns over by hand. I removed the pick up on the end of the cam and there was no pin holding it to the cam. I put a socket on the crank and it sure feels like it has compression. That's as far as I got on this project so far.
    Thanks for the compliment, I put alot of work Into that foreman, will not sell it either.

    Well thats some good news on your motor. It wasn't that bad to tear mine down completely and replace what needed to be done. I built a stand out of wood and used the 4 threaded holes on the bottom of the case to secure it while I was wrenching on it I used a motion pro flywheel puller, and I purchased an after market socket to loosen and tighten the spanner nuts on the crankshaft and clutch. I did by a brand new set of kickstart gears from a guy on ebay, oem. Think my gasket set is a vesrah, and replaced all my seals as well. The factory service manual is your friend, along with the guys on here for technical information. I also have the clymer manual but it doesn't have alot on the 200x in it as opposed to the 185s and 200s, e models.

  5. #65
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    Apr 2012
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    USA
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    +1 for the Tiger Shark Superwinch, my dad used a warn wench for snow plowing and the motor failed after like 5 years (he bought it when he bought his 2003 rincon). Since then he's bought the first year of the 680 rincon (2009?) and put on a superwinch, still no problems to this day. I think he's gone though 3 or 4 cables but that's typical with snow plowing. Added bonus is they are cheaper to buy too and all metal gears, none of that stupid plastic gear crap.

    I thought the tires looked weird, ones I'm used to are 27in or 28in w\e was the old largest before the 29.5in was the new biggest. My dad's were something like $100 each + shipping and I think the new steel rims were like $50 or $100 each. I think around the time the 29.5in outlaws came out, they had a pretty sizable price jump. We got them like the first or second year they were out.

    Anyway, that quad has a lot more mods than I thought it did, it's consealed well. I saw the snorkel setup, figured it had to be home built, but it does look good.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps2fixer View Post
    +1 for the Tiger Shark Superwinch, my dad used a warn wench for snow plowing and the motor failed after like 5 years (he bought it when he bought his 2003 rincon). Since then he's bought the first year of the 680 rincon (2009?) and put on a superwinch, still no problems to this day. I think he's gone though 3 or 4 cables but that's typical with snow plowing. Added bonus is they are cheaper to buy too and all metal gears, none of that stupid plastic gear crap.

    I thought the tires looked weird, ones I'm used to are 27in or 28in w\e was the old largest before the 29.5in was the new biggest. My dad's were something like $100 each + shipping and I think the new steel rims were like $50 or $100 each. I think around the time the 29.5in outlaws came out, they had a pretty sizable price jump. We got them like the first or second year they were out.

    Anyway, that quad has a lot more mods than I thought it did, it's consealed well. I saw the snorkel setup, figured it had to be home built, but it does look good.
    Yeah I think I got the 29.5's maybe 3 months after they came out, their was no such bigger tire at the time. Maybe 2007 or so? Didn't think they would fit but they did, no rubbing. If I had the full floor board foreman things would have been different. Think the new 29.5 costs around 1k for a set now.

    Yes I love the superwinch, had a rule 3300lb on it originally that caput. Then I have only used the 2000 supers since, with doubling blocks of course. Never an issue. Like the rocker switch better than the warn with the the solenoid box, or twist switch on others. Seen both fail.

    Yes it has alot of hidden gear that gives it great capabilities. If you hear it run, it does not sound like a 450 foreman. I also run 93 with klotz hitrate in it as well, 105 to 110 octane. My polaris gets the same. I have ridden with plemty of guys and pulled back to the trailer many artic cats, polaris and other makers quads that broke belts, axles, or what have you. My foreman may not be fast, but it pulls like a cat dozer. Thats good enough for me. Will add some more pics tomorrow of it in action. Think I have a picture of when I pulled out a bronco II that was stuck on the chasis. Have a picture of it next to a stock 450 I rebuilt too.

    Here is my other remaining quad an 2002 2x4 polaris scrambler 500. Its alot of fun, have a set of 21 and 20 maxxis razors on aluminums for it as well as the 23" gators on these aluminums. Its pretty good in the mud, not as wicked as my honda, but way faster. Its also had a few mods done. But I must say its the best riding quad I have ever ridden, like a Cadillac. I have gotten this one up to 76mph at the drag strip, its quick. Would not hang with my 660 raptor I had though.
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    Last edited by Tacky; 01-06-2019 at 11:59 PM.

  7. #67
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    Nov 2018
    Location
    NC
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    87
    Here was another that came and went. I traded this one in on the scramber when I bought it new in 2002. It was a 1995 cr125r, miss that thing, got a broken collar bone on it racing motorcross years back. They don't build them like that anymore, the thumpers are just not the same.

    I will post some more pics of other rides I have owned in the past.
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  8. #68
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    Apr 2012
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    USA
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    It seems a lot of people say good things about the polaris scrambler. Only experience I had with polaris quads was the 500 utility model with the plastic racks. Was really tippy (for a quad) and the front shock setup was goofy. It had the stupid belt drive crap too, does the scrambler have that too? I can see race quads and such doing fine with belt drive, but when it comes to pulling stuff, give me gear to gear.

    Can-am seems to make quite a quad too, but it seems to be more of a play/sport utility than hauling, however never tried to haul a yard of sand with it or anything either, not sure about it's belt drive system either. My little 200es hauled a yard of sand just fine, just the hill I had to go up required a lot of speed because of the lack of power. 450 foreman was the same way (more of a traction issue), just less speed needed. I never drove the 650 rincon when it was hauling sand since it was my dad's pride and joy. My dad's yard was low and out in the woods is a high spot with lots of sand. Didn't have the power shovel at that time, so it was the manual shovel for a good 150+ yards of fill. More is still needed but I moved out and my dad got a back hoe lol.

    For best riding quad, I'd have to say probably the Can-am renegade 800 my cousin had. I felt like I was on my 350x besides the weird feeling in the front with the extra wheel. I didn't get much seat time on it though, just one trip out in my woods and back. Sucks it couldn't pull a wheelie though with all of that raw power. It was a pretty rev happy engine, while the 350x is more of a torque style engine. Not the fastest like the foreman engine, but it really does have a nice bottom to mid end grunt about it.

    I had a junker RM125 Suzuki dirt bike, had a rigged up rear tire on it so I could put around on it, but I was young and tried to weld the sprocket to the AL hub of the rim which didn't last too long lol. After the 2nd time, the engine lost spark. For being only a 125, it really felt like it had a fair bit of power, but I could only just touch the power band and let off in fear of breaking the sprocket off the hub. Have to love being young, poor, and doing stupid stuff lol. I got a RM250 engine with it, but it was full of sand and the jug was missing.

  9. #69
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    Nov 2018
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    NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps2fixer View Post
    It seems a lot of people say good things about the polaris scrambler. Only experience I had with polaris quads was the 500 utility model with the plastic racks. Was really tippy (for a quad) and the front shock setup was goofy. It had the stupid belt drive crap too, does the scrambler have that too? I can see race quads and such doing fine with belt drive, but when it comes to pulling stuff, give me gear to gear.

    Can-am seems to make quite a quad too, but it seems to be more of a play/sport utility than hauling, however never tried to haul a yard of sand with it or anything either, not sure about it's belt drive system either. My little 200es hauled a yard of sand just fine, just the hill I had to go up required a lot of speed because of the lack of power. 450 foreman was the same way (more of a traction issue), just less speed needed. I never drove the 650 rincon when it was hauling sand since it was my dad's pride and joy. My dad's yard was low and out in the woods is a high spot with lots of sand. Didn't have the power shovel at that time, so it was the manual shovel for a good 150+ yards of fill. More is still needed but I moved out and my dad got a back hoe lol.

    For best riding quad, I'd have to say probably the Can-am renegade 800 my cousin had. I felt like I was on my 350x besides the weird feeling in the front with the extra wheel. I didn't get much seat time on it though, just one trip out in my woods and back. Sucks it couldn't pull a wheelie though with all of that raw power. It was a pretty rev happy engine, while the 350x is more of a torque style engine. Not the fastest like the foreman engine, but it really does have a nice bottom to mid end grunt about it.

    I had a junker RM125 Suzuki dirt bike, had a rigged up rear tire on it so I could put around on it, but I was young and tried to weld the sprocket to the AL hub of the rim which didn't last too long lol. After the 2nd time, the engine lost spark. For being only a 125, it really felt like it had a fair bit of power, but I could only just touch the power band and let off in fear of breaking the sprocket off the hub. Have to love being young, poor, and doing stupid stuff lol. I got a RM250 engine with it, but it was full of sand and the jug was missing.
    The scrambler is belt drive, same as everything but honda now days. The stock belt is not capable of holding the extra horses after you modify it, I shredded a few, so I went with a goodyear powerstreak belt with kevlar. Its made for snowmobiles, 3 cylinder 2 strokes and can hold the modified 500's power. Its not a bike I would want around water, becuase if the belt gets wet, its done until it dries. But it will pull hard, and auto makes it a dream for drag racing. It will run down a 700 kawasaki, and leave the 700 and 800 polaris sportsmans. You peg the gas and it will raise the front end for a mile. So for trail riding, haulin a** and jumping stuff its great, although heavier than a true sport quad like the raptor or 450 racers. It has fox racing shocks on it , and is real smooth riding, all day no fatigue. I have pulled my rodeo with it when it would not crank and needed to move it into the shop, no issues. However I use it more as a sport quad than a workhorse like my foreman. They make a 1000 scrambler now, although I find it hideous, its strong, and fast.

    My foreman after I did the clutch mods, and extra horsepower will pull and climb anything. With those clutch springs it makes 25% more horsepower down low, I have hauled a 5x8 trailer full of shingles with no issues. With the locking differential I have you are just along for the ride when it starts pulling. Kinda like a bulldozer. The extra power allows me to turn those 29.5's easily. The 680 rincons problem is the gearing. It needs a gear reduction kit to take full advantage of its horses.
    I high recommend the highlifter gear reduction, and clutch springs to get more power to the ground. Problem with the new 4x4 quads, they will wheelie, however they will break the cv's on the front if done repeatedly. The 700 and 800 sportsman are very heavy too, and cumbersome. Seen a few flipped in drainage ditches.

    Lets face it a 3 wheeler isn't much for pulling since when you do, you lose traction on the front and cannot steer. So I leave the work to the 4x4's.

    My dream bikes, 1986 xr600r, cr500 mid nineties to 2002, the atc 250r, 85, 86, trx250r 88 model. Banshee would be nice. Hopefully one day I will acquire one of those.

    Last rm125 I rode was a 91 or 92, that had the crazy paint job. It was fast, at the time I had to get it rolling, kick start it since I could not put my feet on the ground when seated on it. That was in the early 90's.

  10. #70
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    Apr 2012
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    USA
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    The RM's I had were like 78 and 79 lol.

    Ever have any exerence with the Kawi Big Horn 350 engines? It came on a early 70's enduro. It's a 2 stroke with really good bottom end torque, which isn't typical for 2 strokes. It's low end grunt is like a 4 stroke, but it revs out like a 2 stroke. Really long expansion chamber on it stock. I got 3 of them, the runner was a ice racer, 2nd and 3rd gear are worn out of it. The big difference on these engines is the side of engine mounted carb, just above the crank shaft. It has a rotary valve instead of reed valves. Really a unique 2 stroke design. I have to mess around with those bikes again some time, I think it would be a perfect power plant for the 87 warrior roller frame I have laying around. Never been huge into 2 strokes, but I think a 2 stroke quad would be a good starting place for me. I have a couple air cooled 250r's, one with a broken frame, and the other needs tuned badly and seems low on compression besides basically all the frame bearings are shot.

    I guess it's just my style of doing things, have a million projects, and most don't get done because I have other things higher priority.

    Locally there used to be a sand rail drags where people would race everything from little 5hp go karts to quads/bikes to jeeps, to dune buggies/sand rails, to actual top fuel drag racer style monster machines. Counting out the $50k+ machines (or whatever they cost to build), the fastest thing on the strip that I've seen was a sand rail with a 2 or 3 cylinder snowmobile engine with the belt drive going to a chain drive. The rear sprocket was MASSIVE, like 2 inches smaller than the tires. Whatever the gearing was, it was just right for the drag strip. Not sure how practical it would be for trail riding though. Same place has mud bogs and tough truck comps too. It got shut down, I think their insurance turned them down and the city bought the land.

  11. #71
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    Nov 2018
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    NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps2fixer View Post
    The RM's I had were like 78 and 79 lol.

    Ever have any exerence with the Kawi Big Horn 350 engines? It came on a early 70's enduro. It's a 2 stroke with really good bottom end torque, which isn't typical for 2 strokes. It's low end grunt is like a 4 stroke, but it revs out like a 2 stroke. Really long expansion chamber on it stock. I got 3 of them, the runner was a ice racer, 2nd and 3rd gear are worn out of it. The big difference on these engines is the side of engine mounted carb, just above the crank shaft. It has a rotary valve instead of reed valves. Really a unique 2 stroke design. I have to mess around with those bikes again some time, I think it would be a perfect power plant for the 87 warrior roller frame I have laying around. Never been huge into 2 strokes, but I think a 2 stroke quad would be a good starting place for me. I have a couple air cooled 250r's, one with a broken frame, and the other needs tuned badly and seems low on compression besides basically all the frame bearings are shot.

    I guess it's just my style of doing things, have a million projects, and most don't get done because I have other things higher priority.

    Locally there used to be a sand rail drags where people would race everything from little 5hp go karts to quads/bikes to jeeps, to dune buggies/sand rails, to actual top fuel drag racer style monster machines. Counting out the $50k+ machines (or whatever they cost to build), the fastest thing on the strip that I've seen was a sand rail with a 2 or 3 cylinder snowmobile engine with the belt drive going to a chain drive. The rear sprocket was MASSIVE, like 2 inches smaller than the tires. Whatever the gearing was, it was just right for the drag strip. Not sure how practical it would be for trail riding though. Same place has mud bogs and tough truck comps too. It got shut down, I think their insurance turned them down and the city bought the land.
    No never seen the kawasaki you speak of but sounds interesting. Probably oldest I have messed with was the old yz490 yamaha, xr75 honda. I have messed with a early 80's rm125.

    The local riding area has a very large expanse, take a couple days to cover every trail. Has a motorcross track, a dirt drag strip, and plenty of mud and trails to explore. Its normal to see over 1k machines in a days time.
    I have seen some pretty wicked setups out there. Seen a 350 warrior with a cbr 600r motor, that was fast. You see the banshees with cheetah engines and drag pipes, and all sorts of powerful stuff. Seen a cr500 motor in a atc250r frame as well.
    Then you have the normal guys with raptors, 450r's 400's blasters, banshees, etc.

    You also see can ams, hondas, yamahas, kawasakis, polaris, and all sort of 4x4 quads and side by sides from stock to unobtainium. Its a great place to ride. Has a couple large lakes that I used to put my jetski in a few times too.

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    NC
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    Here are few others I owned and rebuilt.

    2004 Honda F-12X turbo...215HP after mods, bought it brand new in 06 in the crate from the dealership, had till 2016, then sold it. It was 165 hp oem. Only 75 hours, no saltwater use. Funny thing it has the same motor as my 1998 accord 4 cylinder 4 stroke, although I wish the accord had a turbo.

    2002 Raptor 660R … It had a pro flow intake, CT racing exhaust and jets, Ricky stator steel A Arms, and several motor mods, really miss it.

    1985 XL 600R total rebuild Was locked up and I rebuilt the entire motor, wiesco, web cam, fmf exhaust, it was dual carb, I want a 86 xr600r like it.

    Stock 450 and my 450 together... You can see the difference for yourself. You can see my Aquatrax hooked up to my foreman in that picture.
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    Last edited by Tacky; 01-08-2019 at 01:10 AM.

  13. #73
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    OH Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacky View Post
    I got an aftermarket rear master cylinder around $90, I would have rebuilt the oem however its piston is stuck in the top, and cannot get it out. Its full of rust. Its seen better days. I may be able to use my rear brake caliper, plan on tearing it down and inspecting it. I plan on using the ebc pads, I have used ebc's many times in the past, and never an issue. Got a recommendation for a rear caliper, if the original cannot be reused.
    What aftermarket rear cylinder? Mine was shot when I got my 200X. Siezed in the bore and bottomed out. I tried heat ETC... Last resort was drilling a hole in the piston. Ran a screw into it and prying it out with screwdrivers on the head of the screw. It worked. Cleaned up the bore. New rebuild kit and all good.
    Now my rear caliper was seized also. It had a leak on the piston as the previous owner tried to push it back. Got one of Ebay from China with the E-brake and came with pads installed.. I think it was like $20 USD. Bleeder was in the right place. After I was done with the 2 things everything was good. |Good firm feel on the rear brakes. With that said... My rear pads wore out VERY quick. Like 2 hours of riding. It could be a couple variables on my end... But I had people say the pads are junk and I agree.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    '83 200X

    Chicks love guys that ride trikes

  14. #74
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    Nov 2018
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    NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Canadian View Post
    What aftermarket rear cylinder? Mine was shot when I got my 200X. Siezed in the bore and bottomed out. I tried heat ETC... Last resort was drilling a hole in the piston. Ran a screw into it and prying it out with screwdrivers on the head of the screw. It worked. Cleaned up the bore. New rebuild kit and all good.
    Now my rear caliper was seized also. It had a leak on the piston as the previous owner tried to push it back. Got one of Ebay from China with the E-brake and came with pads installed.. I think it was like $20 USD. Bleeder was in the right place. After I was done with the 2 things everything was good. |Good firm feel on the rear brakes. With that said... My rear pads wore out VERY quick. Like 2 hours of riding. It could be a couple variables on my end... But I had people say the pads are junk and I agree.
    Here is the one I bought... believe it or not it has the same forging id numbers as the original on it, in the same place.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-HONDA-A...72.m2749.l2649

    Here is the extra rear caliper I purchased, just chunk the pads that come with it.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/REAR-BRAKE-...72.m2749.l2649

    I purchased one from ebay as well, and a set of severe duty EBC pads for it. I also bought a rebuild kit for the oem rear caliper. My plan is to rebuild the oem, however if its not possible I am gonna use the one I bought from ebay with the EBC pads. Will be using EBC either way. If the oem works out, will have a spare, if not I am covered. I got the new master cylinder in today, took the elbow off the oem one, and installed it on the aftermarket. Seems nice quality, bolted right up.

    As for the pilot jet, I took apart the carb, and it had a #40 in it factory keihin. It was the one that required 3.5 turns out. So I removed it and put in the #42 keihin pilot, and reassembled. Two turns out, purrs like a kitten, and starts easy too. So the #42 worked for me, guess I needed more fuel than the #40.

    I also installed a reproduction chrome honda frame tag, correct for 1985 atc 200x on the front of the frame, got the side decals for the fenders repro of the originals, and added another sand scorcher decal repro, my original front fender has a an original on it, on my wall. Now I just wait for the rear brake parts, oem gas tank, rear taillight bracket, and it will be time for a ride. The front sprocket cover is drying, should be ready Wednesday. I did the engraved areas with gold enamel to give it some character and match the rest of the area's I did on the motor. Then clear coated over it.
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    Last edited by Tacky; 01-08-2019 at 12:48 AM.

  15. #75
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    Apr 2012
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    USA
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    Nice work so far. Your machines are a lot nicer looking than mine lol.

    Here's a clip from a video that shows the 2 stroke rotary valve on the 350 big horn. Doesn't talk much about it, but seems to be a unique design. The hole you see is where an intake boot bolts to, and the carb goes on that. The cover goes up to that air gap over the top of the transmission area and comes out the back side in the center where the carb normally goes so it can hook up to an air filter. The guy that sold me the bike claimed these bikes can keep up with the 500 series bikes from the same era, not sure if there's any truth to that or not, but it's faster than what I wanted to go with the the stock suspention. The pipe on my bike is also factory, so not sure if it's even modified. It does have the fork brace thing I see some have while others don't.

    https://youtu.be/iIyHBlTA0Ws?t=154

    Here's a short video of one being started and rode around a bit. Sounds like he has a working choke, mine had the choke stuff removed, same with the auto oilier. It sounds like the guy's over reving it to take off, mine I could just let the clutch out at idle and it had enough torque to take off, so just a tiny bit of throttle and it's moving. Mine is hard to start like the video, but again no choke lol, the guy that sold it to me said to just keep kicking it, it will start in time. After like 50 kicks it fired up.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E7QJ615K1Q

    Anyway, here's some photos, bikes are not pretty at all, but interesting beasts. They are all pretty beat up looking, and I'm not much for 2 wheels, so thinking about fixing the runner engine up (needs 2nd and 3rd gear, they are worn but working yet) and throwing it in a 87 350 warrior frame to mess around on. I only have $300 into them all, that's why I bought them, just couldn't turn down the deal, didn't even know they were 2 stroke till I got there and was kicking it. That pipe looked weird, but didn't dawn on it me it is a super long expansion chamber.

    The only other 2 strokes I have experience with is that 78-79 RM125 which was very high strung, no real power till the power band, then it's like it's floored. The other 2 stroke is a couple 81-84 ATC250R's, similar, but not nearly as high strung, wider power band and such. The big horn has an even wider power band than the 250r, like 3k+ rpm is power band, smooth power from there all the way up. Low to mid there's a little jump in power, but nothing super crazy like a typical 2 stroke. Very unique to me, but maybe that's more of the nature of 2 stroke road bikes? My dad had an Indian 2 stroke twin bike, never had a chance to hear it run or anything though, it was put together wrong when my dad's bother messed with it when they were teens.
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    Last edited by ps2fixer; 01-08-2019 at 06:16 PM.

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