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Thread: Help with my 1985 atc 200x

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps2fixer View Post
    Nice work so far. Your machines are a lot nicer looking than mine lol.

    Here's a clip from a video that shows the 2 stroke rotary valve on the 350 big horn. Doesn't talk much about it, but seems to be a unique design. The hole you see is where an intake boot bolts to, and the carb goes on that. The cover goes up to that air gap over the top of the transmission area and comes out the back side in the center where the carb normally goes so it can hook up to an air filter. The guy that sold me the bike claimed these bikes can keep up with the 500 series bikes from the same era, not sure if there's any truth to that or not, but it's faster than what I wanted to go with the the stock suspention. The pipe on my bike is also factory, so not sure if it's even modified. It does have the fork brace thing I see some have while others don't.

    https://youtu.be/iIyHBlTA0Ws?t=154

    Here's a short video of one being started and rode around a bit. Sounds like he has a working choke, mine had the choke stuff removed, same with the auto oilier. It sounds like the guy's over reving it to take off, mine I could just let the clutch out at idle and it had enough torque to take off, so just a tiny bit of throttle and it's moving. Mine is hard to start like the video, but again no choke lol, the guy that sold it to me said to just keep kicking it, it will start in time. After like 50 kicks it fired up.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E7QJ615K1Q

    Anyway, here's some photos, bikes are not pretty at all, but interesting beasts. They are all pretty beat up looking, and I'm not much for 2 wheels, so thinking about fixing the runner engine up (needs 2nd and 3rd gear, they are worn but working yet) and throwing it in a 87 350 warrior frame to mess around on. I only have $300 into them all, that's why I bought them, just couldn't turn down the deal, didn't even know they were 2 stroke till I got there and was kicking it. That pipe looked weird, but didn't dawn on it me it is a super long expansion chamber.

    The only other 2 strokes I have experience with is that 78-79 RM125 which was very high strung, no real power till the power band, then it's like it's floored. The other 2 stroke is a couple 81-84 ATC250R's, similar, but not nearly as high strung, wider power band and such. The big horn has an even wider power band than the 250r, like 3k+ rpm is power band, smooth power from there all the way up. Low to mid there's a little jump in power, but nothing super crazy like a typical 2 stroke. Very unique to me, but maybe that's more of the nature of 2 stroke road bikes? My dad had an Indian 2 stroke twin bike, never had a chance to hear it run or anything though, it was put together wrong when my dad's bother messed with it when they were teens.

    Thanks for sharing, that is an interesting engine setup, love that 2 cycle whine. And I was complaining about the compression of the 200x I have. That thing would work ypur legs over for sure. Their is just something about the 2 stroke that calls to me.

    Yes I take care of my stuff, it was instilled in me by my father. If you take care of your stuff you will always have something. Plus what I do for a living constantly teaches readiness, all the time, and equipment in top shape, and ready to perform. So thats why my stuff is in good shape. I am a stickler for details, and how I would do them. So thanks for the compliment, its alot of work but labor I enjoy.

    I did learn something on youtube about the 200x. Its alot easier to kick it from a standing position facing rearward with your right foot than sitting on it and kicking it forward sitting on the seat traditionally. I am ready to give mine a ride. I start mine alot easier like this guy does in the video.

    https://youtu.be/5lwc6-C928o
    Last edited by Tacky; 01-08-2019 at 10:26 PM.

  2. #77
    Ranvier is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerAt the back of the pack
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacky View Post
    I did learn something on youtube about the 200x. Its alot easier to kick it from a standing position facing rearward with your right foot than sitting on it and kicking it forward sitting on the seat traditionally. I am ready to give mine a ride. I start mine alot easier like this guy does in the video.

    https://youtu.be/5lwc6-C928o
    I'm used to kicking my 350x so when I got a 200x, I felt like I was kicking the ground. I start mine this way.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranvier View Post
    I'm used to kicking my 350x so when I got a 200x, I felt like I was kicking the ground. I start mine this way.
    Yes its so much easier. With my 12.1 to 1 hi compression wiesco in it and web camshaft 214 profile, this really helps, I can use the flat part of my foot, versus the arch while sitting on it. 1 kick cranks are obtainable.

  4. #79
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    I never knew kick starting a machine sitting down was a common thing. I don't think I've ever seen anyone do that before. Michigan is the home of the big auto manufacturers, so the general population can maintain and understands mechanical things pretty well, so maybe that's a factor. We have a bit of a different culture up here, atleast for those that are 30+ (the younger population seems to be slower like down south, but it seems more of a laziness thing). We work to get stuff done, time is money etc type of thinking. I've noticed down south in Kentucky and Indiana people are a lot more laid back and take their time doing stuff.

    My stuff is ugly, but mechanically it's sound, or it's stuff I'm not too worried about like front wheel bearings being a little sloppy. I know the bearings don't just wear out in a day of riding and there's no dragging, or grumbling, just a bit of slack in the ball bearings. I do plan to over haul my machines a bit like my ugly 350x that's my go to rider, but I grew up not caring about looks so much and most of the focus on maintenance and mechanical things. I guess that stems from growing up during a period that my family we pretty poor and the fact everything in Michigan rusts away, so anything pretty won't be pretty with 5 years of use. Of course my dad was a mechanic, grandpa was tool and die for GM, so DIY fixing etc was a common thread. Not down playing the looks of machines or anything, my problem is if I get something that looks nice, I don't want to use it so it doesn't get damaged and such lol. I guess it's the same logic as buying a new truck and not wanting to scratch the bed, even though it's made for work.

    Anyway, yea that big horn 350 engine has a good sound to them too. I'm not much into 2 strokes, but that's one engine I think I'd make an exception on lol. I'm boarder line on keeping the 250r's or fixing one and selling it off and parting the other out. My dad's gotten into 2 stroke porting a lot lately mainly for chain saws and I showed him a spare 250r cylinder and he right away he noticed things to touch up to make better air flow. Might have him do a mild port on one of those engines and keep it otherwise stock.

    Anyway, back on the kick starting thing, depending on the compression level, you might have to push it over slow till you hit that wall of compression, push it just past that where it has kind of a double hump feeling, then kick it hard. That's the trick with the 350x with no decompression system working. Also when you kick, you can kind of drop your whole body and then kick with your leg to put all of your weight into it. When I was a teen I weighed nothing, so kick starting stuff was a challenge, so little tricks like that kept me riding. Also worth saying, a good quality boot/shoe that has a thick soul and good ankle support helps from hurting your foot from kick starting a machine. Also be thankful the 200x and 350x are well designed, some kick start bikes tend to backfire, and when they do they slam the kick starter either back into your foot, or if you slip off it can slam into your leg.

    Reminds me, my dad had a Suzuki 370 bike that the rear end was all worn out on. He bought me some pile of crap American made 3 wheeler with a 5hp brigs that couldn't make it up the smallest incline, so he hacked the front end off, welded the bike front half with the engine on it, and drilled/bolted the bike rear sprocket to the 3 wheeler one. I didn't ride it much since I was only like 8, but I remember give it just a tiny bit of gas in 1st and wheeling really easy. My dad beat the shot out of it though lol. Don't remember what happened, but it sat for a while and he pulled the engine and sold the roller frame to the guy next door and never seen it again (probably got scrapped, he's always hard up for money). Anyway I looked up a vid on youtube and it sounds like it's from around 78 as well, the vid I found runs very similar to what I remember, and it's labeled as a 1978 Suzuki 370 SP. Vid just showed the gauges, and yea it looks exactly like the one my dad had.

    If I had a spare 3 wheeler frame, I wonder if that Kawasaki engine would fit in it fairly easily. Like a 250r or 200x frame with it would be a blast I'm sure. Anyway, if you dig up one of those bikes, be sure to post what you end up doing with it, I'd follow the build. The bikes were called F5 and F9 depending on the year, I think there was a F7 too, but can't remember for sure. They were from around 1970-1975. Also the 350 wasn't the only one with the rotary valve, I just think it's the most popular machine with it, maybe it's the biggest one.

    Not sure why, but I really do like the 70's engine sounds lol, maybe it's because of the points engines or something. The 1973 TX500 road bike engine I have on a blaster sounds great too. I really like the 350x too, so that's a "newer" engine.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps2fixer View Post
    I never knew kick starting a machine sitting down was a common thing. I don't think I've ever seen anyone do that before. Michigan is the home of the big auto manufacturers, so the general population can maintain and understands mechanical things pretty well, so maybe that's a factor. We have a bit of a different culture up here, atleast for those that are 30+ (the younger population seems to be slower like down south, but it seems more of a laziness thing). We work to get stuff done, time is money etc type of thinking. I've noticed down south in Kentucky and Indiana people are a lot more laid back and take their time doing stuff.

    My stuff is ugly, but mechanically it's sound, or it's stuff I'm not too worried about like front wheel bearings being a little sloppy. I know the bearings don't just wear out in a day of riding and there's no dragging, or grumbling, just a bit of slack in the ball bearings. I do plan to over haul my machines a bit like my ugly 350x that's my go to rider, but I grew up not caring about looks so much and most of the focus on maintenance and mechanical things. I guess that stems from growing up during a period that my family we pretty poor and the fact everything in Michigan rusts away, so anything pretty won't be pretty with 5 years of use. Of course my dad was a mechanic, grandpa was tool and die for GM, so DIY fixing etc was a common thread. Not down playing the looks of machines or anything, my problem is if I get something that looks nice, I don't want to use it so it doesn't get damaged and such lol. I guess it's the same logic as buying a new truck and not wanting to scratch the bed, even though it's made for work.

    Anyway, yea that big horn 350 engine has a good sound to them too. I'm not much into 2 strokes, but that's one engine I think I'd make an exception on lol. I'm boarder line on keeping the 250r's or fixing one and selling it off and parting the other out. My dad's gotten into 2 stroke porting a lot lately mainly for chain saws and I showed him a spare 250r cylinder and he right away he noticed things to touch up to make better air flow. Might have him do a mild port on one of those engines and keep it otherwise stock.

    Anyway, back on the kick starting thing, depending on the compression level, you might have to push it over slow till you hit that wall of compression, push it just past that where it has kind of a double hump feeling, then kick it hard. That's the trick with the 350x with no decompression system working. Also when you kick, you can kind of drop your whole body and then kick with your leg to put all of your weight into it. When I was a teen I weighed nothing, so kick starting stuff was a challenge, so little tricks like that kept me riding. Also worth saying, a good quality boot/shoe that has a thick soul and good ankle support helps from hurting your foot from kick starting a machine. Also be thankful the 200x and 350x are well designed, some kick start bikes tend to backfire, and when they do they slam the kick starter either back into your foot, or if you slip off it can slam into your leg.

    Reminds me, my dad had a Suzuki 370 bike that the rear end was all worn out on. He bought me some pile of crap American made 3 wheeler with a 5hp brigs that couldn't make it up the smallest incline, so he hacked the front end off, welded the bike front half with the engine on it, and drilled/bolted the bike rear sprocket to the 3 wheeler one. I didn't ride it much since I was only like 8, but I remember give it just a tiny bit of gas in 1st and wheeling really easy. My dad beat the shot out of it though lol. Don't remember what happened, but it sat for a while and he pulled the engine and sold the roller frame to the guy next door and never seen it again (probably got scrapped, he's always hard up for money). Anyway I looked up a vid on youtube and it sounds like it's from around 78 as well, the vid I found runs very similar to what I remember, and it's labeled as a 1978 Suzuki 370 SP. Vid just showed the gauges, and yea it looks exactly like the one my dad had.

    If I had a spare 3 wheeler frame, I wonder if that Kawasaki engine would fit in it fairly easily. Like a 250r or 200x frame with it would be a blast I'm sure. Anyway, if you dig up one of those bikes, be sure to post what you end up doing with it, I'd follow the build. The bikes were called F5 and F9 depending on the year, I think there was a F7 too, but can't remember for sure. They were from around 1970-1975. Also the 350 wasn't the only one with the rotary valve, I just think it's the most popular machine with it, maybe it's the biggest one.

    Not sure why, but I really do like the 70's engine sounds lol, maybe it's because of the points engines or something. The 1973 TX500 road bike engine I have on a blaster sounds great too. I really like the 350x too, so that's a "newer" engine.
    Yeah, most kick it while straddling the seat. I was accustomed to it since most of my kick starts were motorcycles. Xr's, xl's cr's. I kicked them the same way. But the way I do the 200x is way easier. If you try to do it like a motorcycle the foot peg will get you. I guess it just never dawned on me to try it that way.

    I got pulled for jury duty tomorrow...ughhhhhhh, but I am hoping to spend a few hours on my 200x between tomorrow and saturday.

  6. #81
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    Fun stuff on the Jury Duty. I worked with 3 co-workers that served. One Marines, one Navy, and one Army. There was only 6 people in my team lol. The job *was* very demanding, had to know a lot of systems, no proper training material, and more work to do than man hours to cover it. Long story short, we figured out a lot of the common issues with the tech devices and fixed/upgraded as needed and after 4 years, I was bored out of my mind with hardly any work to do. Of course during that time about 50% or so of the hardware was also replaced with new. Of course when I left that job I kind of missed it, but the 50% pay increase was nice, too bad the corp was ran like crap and ended up being an overly stressful job. Demanding is fine, but stressful sucks. That's that job I saved up some extra funds and started doing the harnesses, and once I quit I did harnesses and such full time and have ever since.

    Anyway, guess I should watch the youtube video, not really sure now which way you was kicking it lol. Ahh I see, I've always kicked them straddling the seat (not sitting down though). I always thought the 3 wheelers were weird with their backwards kick starter vs the motorcycles. The only machine I've seen started like the video was a Honda Trail 70, it's kick starter is way to the rear if I remember right so it's the only way to do it fairly easily. If you want to see a really odd one, check this vid out. Probably can't see it so well, but it kicks straight out to the side. Was a pain to deal with, felt so awkward to start, and the lever was short, and the stopper was the foot peg so you slammed your foot every time into the foot peg. Oh guess I should mention my dad got two of them from a couple people from the city that just did donuts with them all day. Both had broken up swing arms, one was a smoker, other didn't run but had good compression. Sold the smoker to a family member that didn't keep it very long, second one my dad got going and took it for about 3 trips out in the woods and the engine seized up full of oil. It seized up right at the crank to rod surface. Long story short, we just got rid of the machines, seemed like they were a pretty crappy machine. We kind of stuck with Honda ever since. I suspect the LT250R is a lot better since it's more or less a race machine.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8nm5tvAhOo

    Also I've looked at a few people's vids that have quads with the 600rr motorcycle engine. Pretty crazy stuff, but seems like they would be quite heavy too. I guess modern quads go up to what 800-1000cc now? They probably don't trail so well though, or are overly large because of the larger engines. I half wanted to buy a 600rr and put it into something for a while, never thought about a 3 wheeler, but that would be one crazy machine. My cousin had a go kart/sand rail type of machine with a Hayabusa 1300cc engine on it. It's something crazy like 160hp stock. The really crazy thing was how it was built, the front and rear suspension was just hacked off a 87-92 TRX250X, I'm shocked the swing arm can handle that much power. Also the clutch was the bike clutch mounted with a pedal bolted to it lol.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps2fixer View Post
    Fun stuff on the Jury Duty. I worked with 3 co-workers that served. One Marines, one Navy, and one Army. There was only 6 people in my team lol. The job *was* very demanding, had to know a lot of systems, no proper training material, and more work to do than man hours to cover it. Long story short, we figured out a lot of the common issues with the tech devices and fixed/upgraded as needed and after 4 years, I was bored out of my mind with hardly any work to do. Of course during that time about 50% or so of the hardware was also replaced with new. Of course when I left that job I kind of missed it, but the 50% pay increase was nice, too bad the corp was ran like crap and ended up being an overly stressful job. Demanding is fine, but stressful sucks. That's that job I saved up some extra funds and started doing the harnesses, and once I quit I did harnesses and such full time and have ever since.

    Anyway, guess I should watch the youtube video, not really sure now which way you was kicking it lol. Ahh I see, I've always kicked them straddling the seat (not sitting down though). I always thought the 3 wheelers were weird with their backwards kick starter vs the motorcycles. The only machine I've seen started like the video was a Honda Trail 70, it's kick starter is way to the rear if I remember right so it's the only way to do it fairly easily. If you want to see a really odd one, check this vid out. Probably can't see it so well, but it kicks straight out to the side. Was a pain to deal with, felt so awkward to start, and the lever was short, and the stopper was the foot peg so you slammed your foot every time into the foot peg. Oh guess I should mention my dad got two of them from a couple people from the city that just did donuts with them all day. Both had broken up swing arms, one was a smoker, other didn't run but had good compression. Sold the smoker to a family member that didn't keep it very long, second one my dad got going and took it for about 3 trips out in the woods and the engine seized up full of oil. It seized up right at the crank to rod surface. Long story short, we just got rid of the machines, seemed like they were a pretty crappy machine. We kind of stuck with Honda ever since. I suspect the LT250R is a lot better since it's more or less a race machine.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8nm5tvAhOo

    Also I've looked at a few people's vids that have quads with the 600rr motorcycle engine. Pretty crazy stuff, but seems like they would be quite heavy too. I guess modern quads go up to what 800-1000cc now? They probably don't trail so well though, or are overly large because of the larger engines. I half wanted to buy a 600rr and put it into something for a while, never thought about a 3 wheeler, but that would be one crazy machine. My cousin had a go kart/sand rail type of machine with a Hayabusa 1300cc engine on it. It's something crazy like 160hp stock. The really crazy thing was how it was built, the front and rear suspension was just hacked off a 87-92 TRX250X, I'm shocked the swing arm can handle that much power. Also the clutch was the bike clutch mounted with a pedal bolted to it lol.
    Think you misunderstood me, I didn't mean literally sitiing down to crank it, but straddling the seat to do it. Sorry for the confusion.

    Jury duty just got worse. Grand Jury for the next year. Ahhhh.... and the hits just keep on coming.

    Anyways got the front sprocket cover put on. Looks good, seems kinda weird since it never had one. Gonna get used too it.

    Other parts are on the way, just wait on the mail as usual.

  8. #83
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    It's all good, would have helped if I watched the youtube vid lol. This pc I browse the web on doesn't have sound, my media computer has the sound (Cerwin Vega AT-15's if you know what that is =)). I've been though quit a bit of audio hardware, and those are some really nice speakers, just need a lot of juice to drive them correctly, the woofer is a bit weak on mine, but I'm only driving around 100w into each speaker, I think I read they are rated for like 600w (all RMS numbers, not any of this stupid peak watt crap that's common today).

    For the jury duty, don't you get paid for it? Can't be that bad, just sucks it's mandatory for you to attend. Not sure how it is with grand jury.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps2fixer View Post
    It's all good, would have helped if I watched the youtube vid lol. This pc I browse the web on doesn't have sound, my media computer has the sound (Cerwin Vega AT-15's if you know what that is =)). I've been though quit a bit of audio hardware, and those are some really nice speakers, just need a lot of juice to drive them correctly, the woofer is a bit weak on mine, but I'm only driving around 100w into each speaker, I think I read they are rated for like 600w (all RMS numbers, not any of this stupid peak watt crap that's common today).

    For the jury duty, don't you get paid for it? Can't be that bad, just sucks it's mandatory for you to attend. Not sure how it is with grand jury.
    Yes know a bit about speakers, have Memphis pr's in every vehicle I own, along with a set of jl audio 10w3's in one, Rockford fosgate 10 in my wifes ride, and 2 kicker comp 10's in my daily driver. Have 2 Rockford fosgate t-500 bdcp amps , a p300, and a punch 75 that's still kicking it. Know a bit about that stuff.

    Grand Jury is like $20 a day. It lasts a year, usually 1 or 2 days a month. So I am locked in for 365 days. Blah...…

    So I took the 200 out of the shop today. I noticed it was hard to get it cranked when its cold. 7 or 10 kicks, choke on and off. Got it cranked and warmed it up. Well after the warm up I decided to drive it around a bit. Man that thing is quicker than before. It really feels like a 2 stroke, the rpms go up, then about half throttle up it feels like a power band has kicked in. I was not expecting that. Everything went good, spent about 30 mins on it around the yard, since I have no place to open it up in the neighborhood. But it does feel good. I think I am gonna fine tune the carb some more since when I stopped the rpms were a bit higher on the idle. I idled it down and then it would level out, but after about 10 seconds it would drop lower, and would cut off. So I gotta explore that a bit. However it cranks easy when warm. So now I need my parts to come in. Here are a few photo's.
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    Last edited by Tacky; 01-09-2019 at 06:45 PM.

  10. #85
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    How does that Cobra exhaust sound? I don't like DG, it's just a loud mega phone, the Cobra on my 250ES sounds good though. I really like the sound of a 350x with a supertrapp though.

    I used to run a pair of rockford fosgate P2's (12in) for the house setup to get the sub woofer range in. I downgraded in watts, but upgraded to a 15in cerwin vega and it sounds a lot tighter and crisper bass now, but that might have been the amp I was using to drive the rockfords (professional Crown rack mount in bridged mode, I think it's spec was 350w in that config). The walls don't rattle/vibrate as much with the 15in on those bass test vids though lol. The 200w cerwin vega is just barely able to keep up with that AT-15's, I probably need the 250w version of it as a min so there's a little headroom and extra punch ready to go in the amp. I haven't been too much into car audio, just a basic 400w amp pushing a pair of 12in woofers, couple mids and a couple tweeters with a JVC head unit when I was a teen. The last headunit for the house I got for $25 just to give Yamaha a shot, and I'm quite impressed, very clear and "real" sounding. It's just a lower end unit, no pre-amp out or anything, so I can't use my Harmon Kardon Signature 2.1 series amp (5 channel 100w RMS @ 8ohm, 175W @ 4 ohm if I remember right). If the funds come flooding in, I have an amp I really want to try out with these speakers. a Yamaha MX1000U. I'll have to find a pre-amp for it though that I like the sound of, probably try another Yamaha since I really like this lower end unit's sound (was like $250 new in 2007). I'm not into rap or anything, and I like the full range of audio, not just bass so it's interesting to find the right equipment I like.

    How's the 10in subs doing in the cars? I haven't bought modern subs, I'm sure they came a long ways since I was into that stuff as a teen. Back then it was min 12in to hear it good, 15in to feel it good. The Cerwin Vega Stroker 15in came out during that time, was wayyyyy too much for me to afford but the specs were crazy for the time.

    Anyway, back to the 200x, hard starting is generally a sign of being a bit lean yet, however it's also a freshly built engine. Compression should go up and performance should increase as it breaks in. The first few tanks are the most critical, that's when there's the highest chance something will fail if it wasn't done just right. I've bought a couple Toyota 22R powered trucks with blown up engines.... not because of age/use, but because they were rebuilt and the rod came unbolted and the crank slammed it though the side of the block, I guess DIY builders don't check torque specs or something.

    Kind of funny, the only thing that looks out of place on the 200x now is the tank, rest looks about like new =D. Not much can be done about the tank, from my understanding the brown color is from the fuel in it and it's all the way though the plastic. Seems like someone could take the tank mold, and make a vacuum form mold to match the tank well that could be attached to the tank to hide the under color. Basically like the gas tank covers for the early trx models. The tanks were just black or w\e color, paint not shiny or anything, and they slapped a plastic cover over it. Heck even my 350x warrior is that way, black plastic tank with the body plastic over it.

    Also that power band feeling is probably from the cam, if I remember right you went with an aftermarket one. Stock ones are designed for a low/wide range power band, aftermarket targets higher rpm power bands. Both have their pro's and con's. Personally I stick with the OEM profile, but if you're doing MX, Racing, etc then the aftermarket is a good pick. I guess it comes down to what rpm range you're in the most.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps2fixer View Post
    How does that Cobra exhaust sound? I don't like DG, it's just a loud mega phone, the Cobra on my 250ES sounds good though. I really like the sound of a 350x with a supertrapp though.

    I used to run a pair of rockford fosgate P2's (12in) for the house setup to get the sub woofer range in. I downgraded in watts, but upgraded to a 15in cerwin vega and it sounds a lot tighter and crisper bass now, but that might have been the amp I was using to drive the rockfords (professional Crown rack mount in bridged mode, I think it's spec was 350w in that config). The walls don't rattle/vibrate as much with the 15in on those bass test vids though lol. The 200w cerwin vega is just barely able to keep up with that AT-15's, I probably need the 250w version of it as a min so there's a little headroom and extra punch ready to go in the amp. I haven't been too much into car audio, just a basic 400w amp pushing a pair of 12in woofers, couple mids and a couple tweeters with a JVC head unit when I was a teen. The last headunit for the house I got for $25 just to give Yamaha a shot, and I'm quite impressed, very clear and "real" sounding. It's just a lower end unit, no pre-amp out or anything, so I can't use my Harmon Kardon Signature 2.1 series amp (5 channel 100w RMS @ 8ohm, 175W @ 4 ohm if I remember right). If the funds come flooding in, I have an amp I really want to try out with these speakers. a Yamaha MX1000U. I'll have to find a pre-amp for it though that I like the sound of, probably try another Yamaha since I really like this lower end unit's sound (was like $250 new in 2007). I'm not into rap or anything, and I like the full range of audio, not just bass so it's interesting to find the right equipment I like.

    How's the 10in subs doing in the cars? I haven't bought modern subs, I'm sure they came a long ways since I was into that stuff as a teen. Back then it was min 12in to hear it good, 15in to feel it good. The Cerwin Vega Stroker 15in came out during that time, was wayyyyy too much for me to afford but the specs were crazy for the time.

    Anyway, back to the 200x, hard starting is generally a sign of being a bit lean yet, however it's also a freshly built engine. Compression should go up and performance should increase as it breaks in. The first few tanks are the most critical, that's when there's the highest chance something will fail if it wasn't done just right. I've bought a couple Toyota 22R powered trucks with blown up engines.... not because of age/use, but because they were rebuilt and the rod came unbolted and the crank slammed it though the side of the block, I guess DIY builders don't check torque specs or something.

    Kind of funny, the only thing that looks out of place on the 200x now is the tank, rest looks about like new =D. Not much can be done about the tank, from my understanding the brown color is from the fuel in it and it's all the way though the plastic. Seems like someone could take the tank mold, and make a vacuum form mold to match the tank well that could be attached to the tank to hide the under color. Basically like the gas tank covers for the early trx models. The tanks were just black or w\e color, paint not shiny or anything, and they slapped a plastic cover over it. Heck even my 350x warrior is that way, black plastic tank with the body plastic over it.

    Also that power band feeling is probably from the cam, if I remember right you went with an aftermarket one. Stock ones are designed for a low/wide range power band, aftermarket targets higher rpm power bands. Both have their pro's and con's. Personally I stick with the OEM profile, but if you're doing MX, Racing, etc then the aftermarket is a good pick. I guess it comes down to what rpm range you're in the most.
    I dunno, the cobra is louder than my polaris 500 with the DG xcellerator on it. Its louder than my foreman with the hmf on it too. I might be able to change that. Spoke with a rep from hmf, gave them the specs and asked if the 250sx silencer will fit. They told me they would look and see for me. The cobra does produce a megaphone tone, would be better with a 45 degree end cap downward. Will see if hmf comes through. I would try a supertrap if I could find one.

    You know I was thinking it was lean. Heck it has a 42 pilot now. I did turn the fuel screw out another turn and no real change. I may try the next size pilot up to see if it needs it. So tell me, I should hear the engine drop in rpms when the fuel screw is out too much or too rich. I have not seen that in my testing. Im beginning to wonder if I need a bigger carb to feed the beast or atleast a bigger pilot.. The 130 main is working fine up top, and middle setting on the needle seems to be correct. Just not enough fuel on the bottom. I do have a 26 or 28mm flatside mukuni that came with it, but it will take some work to get it servicable. It also makes me wonder if the right keihin carb on it. Is it possible that it has a 22mm instead of a 24mm?

    I did some checking, next size up pilot is the #45. I have a few in my jet container. I may take out the #42 and try the #45 and see what happens. I have up to a #50 I believe. Thoughts?



    Yes it has a web cam, shaft 214 profile, its aggressive. It hits hard through the mid and top as it was advertised to do. Its surprising, matched with that 12 to 1 wiesco 66mm.

    Yes the tank is rough, although its clean inside. I did order an original oem metal one from a guy thats in good shape. Its not rusted inside either. Maybe that will give it a better look. Got a new valve coming for it too. The 200x came with a metal tank, so my tank has to be an aftermarket? But everything else looks new. I got the oem tail light mounted, and working. I believe its gonna get a set of new kendas on the back probably 20x11-9 xcr's.

    Man the 2 kickers in the ported box in my accord slam. I have the rockford t500-1 running at 2ohms, thats 500 watts rms or 250 to each 10 rms. have a 10 farad capacitor, fed by 0 gauge rockford wire, and 200 amp fuse. I had the original plan to run 2 15's in the trunk why I mounted the 2 t 500's in there years back maybe 2010. But I am only running 1 and that's more than enough for the 2 kicker comp 10's. Had to put roadkill aka dynamat around the trunk.
    I don't ride around beating much, but every once in a while, I make an exception in particular when some young punk pulls up next to me with the radio turned up.

    Let me see if I have a pic. That what is in my hondas trunk twin rockfords. I put the capacitor on the bottom between the 2.

    Here is the amps I have, did the wiring myself.

    https://www.crutchfield.com/p_575500...EaAhf1EALw_wcB


    My sierra has a hidden box under the rear seat with the 2 JL 10's running 300x1 p300 rockford on them too. Fed by streetwires 4 gauge. Bout 150 to each 10.

    Man I was into the sound stuff when I was in my teens too. Remember when orion, soundstream, hifonics, rockford, kenwood cerwin vega and alpine were the highly regarded. Had a friend with (4) 15's pushed by a hifonics colossus, biggest am I have ever seen. Remember the thor, zeus and others. Rockford it was the punch 40, 60, 75, and 100. Orion had the cool hcca red amps. I do remember friends running diamonds, JBL, , and stillwater kickers. Man I had forgotten about all that, brings back memories so wonder were aren't deaf.

    So give me your thoughts on my fuel delivery.
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  12. #87
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
    --
    4,114
    It's a bit of apples to oranges to compare 2 ohm vs 4ohm RMS. Low ohms gives bigger numbers, but it takes more power to control the speaker well from my understanding. I always grew up where basically all speakers were 4 ohm, super high end speakers seem to be 6-8 ohms.

    Car audio is a bit different than house. My car amp was 400w @ 4ohm, I don't think it had a 2ohm spec. Still have the amp and head unit, probably should throw it in my Lexus some time lol. The 1990 Lexus sounds pretty good, just doesn't get loud and the bass in the door speakers have that bass thump that I don't like from the speakers being too small. The rear sub is 8in if I remember right, only 25w and 2ohm though lol The higher end audio for the same car was 80w @ 6ohm, nothing too impressive, but for stock and being a 1990 car, that was pretty unique for the time. Sadly the amp isn't interchangeable between the two with out major rewiring. The lower end one just taps into a rear speaker signal, the other has all signals go to the external amp which also runs the sub.

    I looked at the listing for the amp, and noticed there's no distortion spec. Probably not really a critical spec for car audio, you won't get super amazing sound in a car vs a house or open area. The crown amp i was using was 0.1%, the harmon kardon is 0.003% if I recall correctly

    Anyway, the comments on the Cobra is interesting, mine is a super old one, it's all steel and black. It sounds well balanced and has a pretty deep tone to it. The DG on my 350x has a pretty deep tone too, but it doesn't seem the exhaust is tuned to the engine as well. Hard to explain it. Kind of like the Jeep Grand Cherokee I had for a parts vehicle that ran, the last like 2 foot of the exhaust wasn't clamped on, with it on it sounded well balanced and not half bad for stock, but when it separated, it sounded like complete garbage, it even had a bit of backfire going on. Push it back together, and sounds great again. Exhaust length has a lot to do with how it sounds and some of the characteristics of the engine, just like a 2 stroke, just to a lesser extent on a 4 stroke.

    On the carb tuning, the only thing I can remember about jetting was the pilot jet is the low into the mid range area, so blipping the throttle is kind of how you read if it's right or not. I've read some guides where they say to turn in the adjuster screw till it dies, then back it out till it stumbles, and set it in the middle, but never had one that did the two extremes. Maybe most/all of my machines are too small of pilot too lol.

    Anyway, I added a couple pics of my audio setup for the speakers, amp wise it's nothing special atm. The black box is the 15in sub, it's a bottom fire. Unit on top is the Denon AVR-4802 I was running, wasn't super into the pre-amp output sound though, sounded overly processed or something, just wasn't right. It has an internal amp too, but one channel is dead, haven't diag'ed the problem though. Top left corner of the pic you can see one of the Rockford P2's. Don't mind the mess, too much junk in too little of an area lol. I pulled the cover off the main speaker so you can see it. Speaker is too close to the wall (rear ported), the woofer can't work like it should, so I had to cut back on the highs on the cross overs. Mids were slightly weak on this speaker vs the DX9 with the larger single mid. The AT-15's are 90lbs each lol. The speakers are not made any more, but here's some reviews on them, first one seems to be the most technical, they are known for the gluing to come apart if moved a lot or pushed hard, not a hard fix though. They put out a great bass guitar sound, it's a little weak on super low bass, but that's what the sub woofer is for. When I say a little weak, I just mean volume, not weak like poor sounding. It seems to be a great match for music and movies.

    http://www.audioreview.com/product/s...ega/at-15.html
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  13. #88
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Leander TX
    --
    2,219
    This sums up pilot jet: https://www.howtomotorcyclerepair.co...rew-explained/

    My WR450 conversion came stock with a 45 pilot. With a pipe, big filter and open airbox I ended up with a 62. Sounds nuts on paper but it works. Starts easy even at 30F. No decel popping.
    The main went from 165 stock to 180,

    Cut and paste bullet points here... (generally, 4 strokes have a "fuel screw")
    What are some indications of a lean pilot jet and/or screw setting?

    If your air screw is in further than 1 turn, you need a richer pilot.
    If your fuel screw is out further than 3 turns, you need a richer plot.
    Off idle hesitation or bog.
    Revving the engine in neutral will result in hanging RPM’s, or RPM’s will slowly drop back to idle RPM.

    What are some indications of a rich pilot jet and/or screw setting?

    If your air screw is out further than 3 turns, you need a leaner pilot.
    If your fuel screw is in further than 1 turn, you need a leaner pilot.
    Off idle heavy feel or sputter.
    Revving the engine in neutral will result in RPM dip below idle RPM, RPM’s will drop quickly.
    Turning the fuel screw all the way in will not stall the engine.

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    NC
    --
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by jb2wheels View Post
    My WR450 conversion came stock with a 45 pilot. With a pipe, big filter and open airbox I ended up with a 62. Sounds nuts on paper but it works. Starts easy even at 30F. No decel popping.
    The main went from 165 stock to 180,

    Cut and paste bullet points here... (generally, 4 strokes have a "fuel screw")
    What are some indications of a lean pilot jet and/or screw setting?

    If your air screw is in further than 1 turn, you need a richer pilot.
    If your fuel screw is out further than 3 turns, you need a richer plot.
    Off idle hesitation or bog.
    Revving the engine in neutral will result in hanging RPM’s, or RPM’s will slowly drop back to idle RPM.

    What are some indications of a rich pilot jet and/or screw setting?

    If your air screw is out further than 3 turns, you need a leaner pilot.
    If your fuel screw is in further than 1 turn, you need a leaner pilot.
    Off idle heavy feel or sputter.
    Revving the engine in neutral will result in RPM dip below idle RPM, RPM’s will drop quickly.
    Turning the fuel screw all the way in will not stall the engine.
    Thanks for the info. Thats what I needed. I was just curious about the extremely large change for the pilot, seemed crazy. But the symptoms I have are in these listings, these are what I am seeing.


    Revving the engine in neutral will result in hanging RPM’s, or RPM’s will slowly drop back to idle RPM.

    If your fuel screw is out further than 3 turns, you need a richer plot.

    Gonna investigate these today.

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    NC
    --
    87
    Nice, never did much with home stuff, have a polk audio sound bar and subwoofer in my house on my 65, although with me in the shop alot with my toys, the wife enjoys the tv and sound way more than I do. In the shop I have 4 speakers, one in each corner 6 1/2, mid and tweeter, hooked to a 6 disc changer. I turn it on, and get to wrenching.

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