Picked up Honda Big Red this weekend...snorkel?

[Pierce1989]

The TRX one is the 427D one. I was starting to think it was the rocker arms and attempted swapping them but the screw is stripping on the new head cover. Even the rocker arms look identical, and the cam looks fine in both when spinning it. I ended up putting the old head back on with threebond, and I was able to adjust the valves then screw the 24mm adjustment screw in enough to thread in a little and I'll silicone all around it to atleast test the engine and put it on the trike, see if crappy Athena head gasket holds up, shifts through gears, clutch works, all that. I need a thicker sealant that wouldn't seep down into the threads. Maybe it'll hold up until the valves need adjustments again and if the engine is worth it after sitting in the rain this many years and isn't broken, I'll be doing a full topend job so it lasts. I'll let yall know how it goes!

[ps2fixer]

Oh the cap's threads were buggered up? I thought it was the tappet bolt thread (the adjusting bolt on the end of the rocker arm). The cap is just to cap it off, so anyway to seal it should work temp. Is the threads in the valve cover shot, or the actual cap or both?

For a sealant, I'd guess red RTV or gray RTV would work well, just don't apply too much and make sure the surfaces are clean to start with. Red RTV ends up a lot like silicone and if excess gets in the engine it works well to plug oil passages.

[floydechoes2000]

If you're going to use RTV, you only need a very small amount. Like a 1/16" bead or less. Like ps2fixer said, too much and it can get into oil passages and clog them. When you tighten down the valve cover it will squish out a lot more than it seems it would. I think you know this already Pierce1989 but I'm posting it anyway to help others reading who might not know how bad it can be!

[Pierce1989]

So close I can taste it. Engine is back in frame, connected sparkplug to boot, touched sparkplug to cylinder as well as put a wire around and connected other side to a bolt on the pull start and got one little spark or 2, then nothing afterwards. This is the same issue I had before removing the engine. Pickup coil gap is set to spec, new (for me) spark advancer, stator is reading 213 ohms, pickup coil has continuity, kill switch wires are exposed and not touching. From my understanding, even though this has a battery/relay/solenoid and all that, all it needs to spark by pullstart is red/black wire from stator to CDI, 2 wires from pickup coil connected, ignition coil positive wire plugged in, kill switch wires exposed, good cdi, and the only ground is the ignition coil bolt. If this sounds right to y'all, and battery connections/the whole mess under the seat is irrelevant, then I'll be able to swap all parts to my running bikes and if they all work, then it must be a sliced wire in the taped wiring harness or the CDI connector which is pretty corroded inside. I emailed Vintageconnections last week and he said this may be the one to use? http://www.vintageconnections.com/Products/Detail/63 If so, just replace all of mine.

Now here's the bigger issue, I have been pulling the pullstart probably 25 times and not seeing oil the fresh oil I just added coming up to the head through the valve adjustment screws. Carb is off, exhaust is off, spark plug never screwed into hole, just testing spark before assembling everything. Would these pulls be enough to bring oil up? Or does the engine need to be running to get any up there? I put some below the cam before installing the head cover but worried that I don't see any near the valves now. Thanks for all the help guys, almost there with all the advice!

[ps2fixer]

What's the ohms on the pickup coil (Honda calls it a pulse generator).

The CDI system is AC based, so the battery has no direct effect on the ignition system.

At the CDI plug, test black/white (or sometimes solid black) to green/ground. It should give no reading as this is the kill switch wire. You get spark sometimes so I'm assuming this is fine.

The CDI has 5 wires:

Green - Ground (well it's AC so proper term is Neutral or Common)
Black/Red - Power (AC so it's the Hot wire)
Black/White (sometimes solid black, it's for the kill switch, shorted to ground = kill)
Blue/Yellow - Pulse generator signal (it grounds though the green wire, other machines use a dedicated sensor ground wire that's Green/White)
Black/Yellow - Output from the CDI to coil, again the CDI/Coil grounds though the Green wire. The Coil must have good frame/engine ground in order for the spark plug to spark.

The rest of the wire harness besides those colors are for lights, charging the battery, fuses, aux plug etc.

I'm wondering if some sort of harness rental, or even like parts rental setup would be a good idea to get into. The biggest problem is getting the stuff back, or getting paid for what is kept to replace the parts. Like a "race" style harness is pretty easy to make for any machine that uses an AC powered CDI (all Honda 3 wheelers that I've seen). I doubt too many people would want a race harness for a 200e/es though lol.

Also, yes the CDI connector is a 0.110 (2.8mm) series connector. Here's another supplier, but looks like similar prices. If you don't have the proper tools I can make you a pig tail for you to splice into your existing harness. Based on your description, the CDI connector could be the problem, another thing could be the actual CDI too. That style of CDI is very universal, I think every 3 wheeler that uses that connector plug is the same part number for the CDI, and it's in production yet too. I'm almost 100% sure this CDI would work for the 200ES as well if the connector was changed out in the harness. In theory, you should be able to run one of Mike's Performance CDI's for an ATC200X if you updated the harness to the more modern & sealed 4+2 connector. There's probably some Chinese CDI's that would work well too, but it's kind of buy and test with them since the sellers are horrible about giving any real details on the product (ignition spark curve and such).

http://www.cycleterminal.com/110-connectors.html

https://www.partzilla.com/product/ho...49546677d3b089


Anyway on the harness topic, look for broken wires at connector plugs, it's very rare to have a wire inside the harness fail unless someone was poking at them with a multi meter though the insulation, or there's physical damage which should be fairly easy to see. Look for signs of past owners covering things up on the harness, like fresh electrical tape. You could also test each of the 5 wires from the CDI to their respected locations to be sure they have near 0 ohms of resistance to their end points. Don't forget to also test green to all locations in the harness that's a green wire, and the engine connection.

[Pierce1989]

Success and failure! Hopefully this helps someone else searching the forums. This trike never had a key and it has always been in the off position. It would start in this position and run then suddenly die, but I didn't think it was an issue since it started. Only thought key was needed for electric start for some reason. After checking all electrical, swapping known good parts to it, etc, I removed the headlight housing and disconnected the green ground from ignition key from the double connector. Blue spark after that, trike would start and idle and I rode it briefly. Then came the next issue, that the boss rotor bolt backs itself out.

In the Clymers manual, it says install gearshift pedal, put in gear, have friend hold brake, and "Tighten rotor bolt with impact driver and ." That's it, no torque spec. This bolt keeps backing out after riding and pulling pullstart. My impact driver isn't strong enough, and I don't know what they mean by using a . So I put some blue Loctite on it and tightened until I thought it may break the bolt. I'll wait 24 hours for it to cure and try again. If not, it may be the threads in the flywheel since this thing did sheer the key already once and may have damage. Anyone else have this issue before? Why impact driver and ?


You can tell when it backs out because the pullstart won't catch anymore and there's no compression until you tighten the boss bolt back in and put on pullstart again.

[ps2fixer]

The Clymers manual isn't always the best, compare it with the Honda manuals too. Honda made the machine, so in theory their in house made service manual should be the most accurate.

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/

Anyway, finding the torque specs can be a bit of a chore to find. I found the flywheel nut spec under general info. It says 29-36 ft-lbs. Did you replace the key that was sheered? With the key + the given torque spec and blue loctite it shouldn't back out. If it does, then the taper on the crank/flywheel might be damaged too much from running loose. Also make sure the threads are in good shape and such, maybe your not actually getting tight on the flywheel, but instead hitting a bad spot.

[Pierce1989]

The Clymers manual isn't always the best, compare it with the Honda manuals too. Honda made the machine, so in theory their in house made service manual should be the most accurate.

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/

Anyway, finding the torque specs can be a bit of a chore to find. I found the flywheel nut spec under general info. It says 29-36 ft-lbs. Did you replace the key that was sheered? With the key + the given torque spec and blue loctite it shouldn't back out. If it does, then the taper on the crank/flywheel might be damaged too much from running loose. Also make sure the threads are in good shape and such, maybe your not actually getting tight on the flywheel, but instead hitting a bad spot.

Thanks Ps2fixer, I am going to try tonight to ride it and see if it backs out again. If it does, I assume I need a new crank if the taper is too messed up from it running loose. I did replace the key. If the crankshaft was too tapered, what would you do in this position? Buy a crankshaft/bearings/gaskets, split the case, and install for $100 or so, get a used bottom end, or a used engine? I've never split the case so not sure if it'd really be just $100 but I see used cranks for $40-50 on Ebay, already have the bottom end gaskets, and $25 for new bearings, and I'm sure I'll break something else in the process so +$25-$50 margin of error!!

[ps2fixer]

I'ved pulled and re-assembled a couple TRX250X engines apart and splitting the cases were not bad at all. Just let gravity keep things together (put the engine sideways). A couple thrust washers might come off when you pull the case off, but part diagrams on Honda dealer sites or diagrams in the service manuals should help to indicate where everything went. In my case, I had to swap the transmission gears from one housing to another. The one had part of a piston pressed into the gears, I think the other one's case was messed up some around the chain sprocket area.

If your buying a crank, yea new bearings probably isn't a bad idea. I'm not sure if the bearings are pressed on or not, so that's something to think about too. While you're at it, I'd say it's best to buy another flywheel too since the taper on both have to match up for it to hold well.

Also here's the list of machines that use the same part number for the crankshaft.

82-83 ATC200E
84 ATC200ES
84-85 ATC200M
84 TRX200

Looks like the same list of machines you can get the fly wheel from too plus the 84-85 ATC125M and 85-86 TRX125.

I just looked around for a 200es crank since it's the most sold machine and looks like this might be the best deal. Listing says it came from a running engine and there's no damage.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CRANK-SHAFT...hOU4:rk:7:pf:0

Cheapest flywheel I saw in a quick search was this one.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Rotor...frcectupt=true

Also here's a flywheel bolt, not sure if your's is damaged from over torquing or not, but the price isn't too bad. The seller will get like $2 for it after shipping/fees lol.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-HONDA-...frcectupt=true


You could go for a bottom end, but if you're willing to spend $100+ make sure it comes with the flywheel atleast since you probably need it. Another route you could do is watch for a parts machine for sale local to you and get a whole machine for like $200-300. That's assuming you have a spot to store the extra machine. Never know the parts machine might have a good engine with minor work needed to get it going and you can swap the whole engine over. When I had the Honda ATC bug, this is the route I'd probably go.