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Thread: Picked up Honda Big Red this weekend...snorkel?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Atlanta
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    107

    Picked up Honda Big Red this weekend...snorkel?

    Good morning everyone! Picked up this '83 Honda ATC 200E this weekend for $250. It's in rough shape, missing seat, dry rotted tires, hubs may not be usable, air filter nasty and missing top and rubber boot to carb, gastank nasty inside, missing drain plug. It has good compression and after tinkering some got the engine to start. Ordered new Amazon chinese carb, front and rear bearings, and tubes so I can put my other tires on if the hubs don't crumble when I try to remove the dry-rotted tires already on them. Total investment so far is $250 + $115 parts, so it seems like a good deal so far.

    Since I'd need an airbox top and rubber boot, I am considering just snorkeling it right off the bat. I've seen some threads about snorkeling through the left side of airbox where the boot goes to frame, and also threads to snorkel straight from carb but there's not great instructions. Has anyone tried this route? A 1.5 inch PVC fits over the mouth of carb but is a little loose, and tightening a hose clamp around the PVC probably won't clamp a PVC pipe to fill the gap. I would assume you'd run the PVC through a hole in the toolbox and up the rear and put one of those cone air filters on the top of PVC? Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. I have some different jets for carb if rejetting is necessary.




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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
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    Edmond, KS
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    1,515
    You'd have to use a rubber boot between the PVC and the carb. Most of the pictures that I've seen have the snorkels running to the front of the trike.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    NC
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    85
    Have built many snorkels on quads, never on 3 wheelers. I used alot of pvc piping, elbows etc, along with rubber couplings with hose clamps to attach them. Just remember these few things.

    1, build the snorkel to allow it to be removed to access the motor for maintenance and repairs, so don't just glue it into place.

    2, you will have to experiment in tubing sizes for fit, and adequate air flow. You will probably have to change jets and carb. Settings to get it running good, just the nature of the beast.

    3, just because it has a snorkel does not mean it can be used like a person uses a snorkel to dive, the electric parts, and motor do not react well to water immersion. But built properly you can submerge the machine and still keep it running and moving.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Atlanta
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    107
    Thanks for the replies! I am going to try it out this weekend and will post pictures.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    MI, USA
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    2,717
    Let me know if you need a set of hubs, I should have a spare set around. Probably have some other 84 200ES parts too, just not sure what all interchanges. Likely most things not related to the chain vs shaft drive.

    If you're going to toss the OEM carb, I'll pay shipping + packing for it. Don't really need it, but OEM carbs generally run the best.

    The stock setup is quite good for water, I've been in water up to the seat on my 200ES with no problems. The air intake is right by the neck of the machine, so that's your max depth, and worst case if you don't mind the risk, you could go deeper, but do a wheelie to keep the front high enough. Never had electrical problems, but I didn't do it all the time either like once or twice.

    Just encase you don't know, the 200ES is the shaft drive version of the 200E.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Atlanta
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    107
    The tires are dry-rotted stuck to the hub we're going to take them to Pepboys to try to remove them with their machine. Hopefully the machine doesn't crumble the hubs! So far I have replaced all bearings and put a tire on the front. The chain is unusable, and the front sprocket seems like a pain to get to with the subtranny so hoping I can just guide a new chain through by connecting it to the old one and moving it through. The brake pedal is pretty much seized onto the spindle, I was able to get it to move a little but won't come off. Maybe a torch will convince it.

    I think I will do as suggested and just use the original airbox setup. The airbox is missing the cover and the rubber boot to carb is hard as a rock and has cracks, so I don' think it is usable. Unless there is a special tape that can be wrapped around it 100 times and withstand the elements and gas. Does anyone have an airbox cover for an '83 200E and the 2 rubber boots, especially the carb to airbox one?!

    Ps2fixer, I may be able to send you the carb if I end up using the new one. Sometimes I buy the Amazon carbs and move over the float, needle valve, float bowl o-ring, pretty much everything to the Keihin carb besides the throttle cable assembly and slide. It is cheaper than a rebuild kit, matches perfectly depending on which one you buy, and comes with the fuel filter and a spare cone air filter.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    MI, USA
    --
    2,717
    I went out and found a 200es air box, two rubber boots from box to frame, and one for airbox to carb. Letting them warm up since it's 15 degrees out atm lol. Air box has the lid with it, but the wing nut bolt things are not with it, do you have them by chance, or do I need to find them? There was another air box lid with a hole cut in it, I didn't pay attention if it had the bolts or not in it.

    Also, yea should be able to string the new chain though where the sprocket is, just put the transmission/transfer case in neutral so it rolls easier.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Atlanta
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    107
    Quote Originally Posted by ps2fixer View Post
    I went out and found a 200es air box, two rubber boots from box to frame, and one for airbox to carb. Letting them warm up since it's 15 degrees out atm lol. Air box has the lid with it, but the wing nut bolt things are not with it, do you have them by chance, or do I need to find them? There was another air box lid with a hole cut in it, I didn't pay attention if it had the bolts or not in it.

    Also, yea should be able to string the new chain though where the sprocket is, just put the transmission/transfer case in neutral so it rolls easier.
    Thanks so much! I will PM you now.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    TN
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    695
    A trick to breaking those tires down...do not completely deflate. Leave a couple pounds of air in there. It gives the machine something to push against. Break down one side then lube the snot out of and air it back up. You do NOT have to seat the bead, just get a little air back in it.
    Then break the other side down.

    If you donít a typical tire machine just flops over the tire and wonít break it down. Tires are my occupation so Iíve learned a trick or three.


    If you need parts, make a post in the classifieds here. One of us probably has it.
    Amateur Resurrectionist

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Atlanta
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    107
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    A trick to breaking those tires down...do not completely deflate. Leave a couple pounds of air in there. It gives the machine something to push against. Break down one side then lube the snot out of and air it back up. You do NOT have to seat the bead, just get a little air back in it.
    Then break the other side down.

    If you don’t a typical tire machine just flops over the tire and won’t break it down. Tires are my occupation so I’ve learned a trick or three.


    If you need parts, make a post in the classifieds here. One of us probably has it.

    The tires wouldn't come off the redneck way with a jack under my truck, or with Pepboy's fancy tire machine they were so dry-rotted on there. We had to cut them off with a cut-off wheel. The good news is even though the hubs had rust buildup around the lips, they were salvageable enough to tube them and put some old tires on. The thing is starting to look beastly! Just need an airbox and it'll be ready for the Everglades. I'll post a picture up after work. I did notice the frame is bent in the front pretty bad with a dent. I wouldn't have bought it if I noticed this, even for $250. I'm hoping as long as someone doesn't hit a tree or roll it, the frame won't snap. Let me know what y'all think. One of the pictures looks like it is a hole in the frame but there isn't one. There's also a pic of an exhaust leak that's pretty noticeable when it's running. The exhaust will most likely crumble if removed to try to fixClick image for larger version. 

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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    MI, USA
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    2,717
    I think you're underestimating how strong steel is, even with surface rust. It's the pitted/flaked out rust you have to worry about. How's the exhaust besides the flange? I probably have a junk rusted out exhaust with a desent flange/pipe if you can weld or know someone. Since it's broken right at the flange, it's probably not ideal to try to fix it.

    For the rims, sand them down, repaint and they will look like new again, unless it has heavy pitting. If that's the case and you want pretty rims, use some body filler to fill the pits, sand it smooth and paint. I've NEVER seen a rim so rusty it crumbles, only so rusty it leaks air and I've seen some BAD rims lol. On the frame, depending how it's bent, it could be possible to bend it back, but it would take some fancy work to get things just right, probably best to leave it as is as long as it doesn't drive/ride weird. Again if you're into welding and such, I could probably cut off the neck of a 200es frame and ship it your way. Also whoever does the weld work better be good, no bubble gum welds like on that exhaust flange.

    Nvm on the frame, it looks like the pipe is collapsed pretty bad, so yea pretty weak for running into things, should be fine for normal riding and such, just don't push anything with it.

    Also that redneck way of dismounting tires is a horrible way to do it, I've tried it before and never had success. Easier way is to drive your truck tire over the tire and ride it as close to the bead as possible. It takes a few attempts but works fairly well. It's more ideal for larger tires though, atv tires it's trying to take too much off at once. I've done it that way or when it's really bad, with a tire maul for car/truck/semi rims. My dad inherited a huge pile of tires when his dad died, and the tire recycler either charged more for with rims, or wouldn't accept them with rims, so we broke down a 16x8 trailer loaded about 7-8ft tall with tires all broken down by hand. Hauled in the rims to pay the cost of recycling them and maybe a tiny bit extra for a "profit". I got pretty good at taking down those 16.5in split style rims used on bigger trucks back a long time ago.

    Looks like you'd need a lead pipe for your machine too, it's looking rusty enough that it's getting thin. I think they tend to break though on the bottom side were water would drip off when wet. Might have one in usable shape laying around, I'll have to check the shed further back on my property though. If you are planning to replace the whole exhaust system with all new, it wouldn't hurt to just weld the exaust head pipe to the exhaust pipe, just it will be trashed and unusable once you cut it back off.


    Anyway, update on the air box now that it's warmed up. The airbox to frame rubber boot is pretty good, soft and flexible and I don't see any cracks. The carb one is a bit stiff but not rock hard, but the top side has about a 1/4in crack at the clamp area, might be usable but probably would want to atleast RTV seal it up when installing. Also I noticed the actual airbox has a melted hold in the side of it, but I think you already have an air box anyway. Also make sure your air box has the exhaust shield, it screws on, this one here is in good shape.

    I'll run out and check for the lid screws and such, also have to try to dig up a seat pan for another member.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Atlanta
    --
    107
    Quote Originally Posted by ps2fixer View Post
    I think you're underestimating how strong steel is, even with surface rust. It's the pitted/flaked out rust you have to worry about. How's the exhaust besides the flange? I probably have a junk rusted out exhaust with a desent flange/pipe if you can weld or know someone. Since it's broken right at the flange, it's probably not ideal to try to fix it.

    For the rims, sand them down, repaint and they will look like new again, unless it has heavy pitting. If that's the case and you want pretty rims, use some body filler to fill the pits, sand it smooth and paint. I've NEVER seen a rim so rusty it crumbles, only so rusty it leaks air and I've seen some BAD rims lol. On the frame, depending how it's bent, it could be possible to bend it back, but it would take some fancy work to get things just right, probably best to leave it as is as long as it doesn't drive/ride weird. Again if you're into welding and such, I could probably cut off the neck of a 200es frame and ship it your way. Also whoever does the weld work better be good, no bubble gum welds like on that exhaust flange.

    Nvm on the frame, it looks like the pipe is collapsed pretty bad, so yea pretty weak for running into things, should be fine for normal riding and such, just don't push anything with it.

    Also that redneck way of dismounting tires is a horrible way to do it, I've tried it before and never had success. Easier way is to drive your truck tire over the tire and ride it as close to the bead as possible. It takes a few attempts but works fairly well. It's more ideal for larger tires though, atv tires it's trying to take too much off at once. I've done it that way or when it's really bad, with a tire maul for car/truck/semi rims. My dad inherited a huge pile of tires when his dad died, and the tire recycler either charged more for with rims, or wouldn't accept them with rims, so we broke down a 16x8 trailer loaded about 7-8ft tall with tires all broken down by hand. Hauled in the rims to pay the cost of recycling them and maybe a tiny bit extra for a "profit". I got pretty good at taking down those 16.5in split style rims used on bigger trucks back a long time ago.

    Looks like you'd need a lead pipe for your machine too, it's looking rusty enough that it's getting thin. I think they tend to break though on the bottom side were water would drip off when wet. Might have one in usable shape laying around, I'll have to check the shed further back on my property though. If you are planning to replace the whole exhaust system with all new, it wouldn't hurt to just weld the exaust head pipe to the exhaust pipe, just it will be trashed and unusable once you cut it back off.


    Anyway, update on the air box now that it's warmed up. The airbox to frame rubber boot is pretty good, soft and flexible and I don't see any cracks. The carb one is a bit stiff but not rock hard, but the top side has about a 1/4in crack at the clamp area, might be usable but probably would want to atleast RTV seal it up when installing. Also I noticed the actual airbox has a melted hold in the side of it, but I think you already have an air box anyway. Also make sure your air box has the exhaust shield, it screws on, this one here is in good shape.

    I'll run out and check for the lid screws and such, also have to try to dig up a seat pan for another member.
    Thanks for the advice. The redneck method generally works when the tires aren't dry-rotted! I don't have access to a welder so I was wondering if anyone knew if JBweld or something similar could be pasted over the crack, let it dry, and maybe it'd hold out for a few rides until we can get an RCM exhaust. But not even going to try it if someone with more experience knows JBweld won't work. The airbox I have doesn't have the heat shield on it. Thanks for taking a look for all this for me, with your help we can be out on the trails soon. I sent you a PM earlier, whenever you get a chance please let me know, thanks bud!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    MI, USA
    --
    2,717
    Dug up the airbox lid bolts, the other lid had them in it yet. Wing nut side is surface rust, but pretty typical, rest of the bolt looks in good shape. I pulled the exhaust shield off this air box, and have the screws to include for that as well. I found another carb to airbox boot in better shape than the last one, just really dirty. I have the clamps included too, the carb one isn't the greatest, but better than nothing if you don't have one.

    The exhaust system is pretty trashed already, trying JB weld wouldn't hurt anything, I don't think the stuff catches on fire. There's a video of a guy making a piston out of JB weld or a head whichever and it didn't burst into flames. Worst case, it will crumble apart and leak again. Another route you could do is take a metal soup can, cut the top/bottom off and cut it length wise and wrap it around the exhaust pipe and clamp it with hose clamps. It's not a leak proof setup, but helps reduce it. The can won't last long and rust out, but short term that's a way to not get a ticket for a loud exhaust on cars in Michigan lol. Maybe JB weld, then soup can it. Just careful not to block the exhaust off on the inside, not sure how runny JB weld is. Ideally you'd have some screen or something added in for extra support and something to help hold the JB weld over the big gap. Probably worth while trying to bolt the exhaust on too, I think in the one photo it was missing the front side bolt.

    Anyway, here's a couple photos of what I have for ya, I'll shoot ya a pm about it.

    Didn't have luck on the exhaust, but sounds like you're not too worried about going with OEM so it's all good.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_20190111_162505_900.jpg   IMG_20190111_162339_675.jpg  

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Atlanta
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    107
    That soup can trick sounds great and it won't hurt anything, I'll try it out and let you know how it goes. Thanks for the help, already sent you the Paypal!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    MI, USA
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    2,717
    Sounds good, careful with the can, when it's cut it's sharp. I've used tin snips to do the length wise cut. The idea is to wrap it around so it covers the whole pipe, might be kind of hard to do with the tiny 200e pipe vs a car pipe, starting with a smaller sized can will probably help a ton.

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