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Thread: 1984 200es AC/DC system

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    SW Oregon United States
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    145

    1984 200es AC/DC system

    I've read alot but have a question about the 1984 ac/dc system. I guess I'm not as bright as I thought I am. I've decided to rewire the entire bike and upgrade everything. I've kept this puppy running thru-out the years and replaced cdi's, coils rebuilt the starter, and stator. But I can't get my head around the pulse generator, stator ac system. How come both produce an ac voltage but use a 12v ground to complete the circuit? Help me understand the pulse generator little black box and whats inside of it to create the "pulse" that is sent to the cdi (ac charged capacitor) to give the coil a spark pulse. And what voltage is sent from the cdi to the coil. Take me by the hand and dumbie me up. Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    SW Oregon United States
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    145
    I'll bet somebody can help........

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
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    4,114
    Hey this is right up my alley of things I've been researching for building my own CDI lol.

    The two coils in the stator are the lighting coil and exciter coil. Both generate AC power so there's a "neutral" and "hot" wire just like your house. Anyway, the 84 200ES is wired pretty simply for the AC section, other machines have both coils grounded to the engine/green wire and just the hot side comes out for connection. However the 200ES has both wires coming out of the stator for the lighting coil and it runs directly to the regulator/rectifier which converts it to DC voltage and regulates the voltage (by shorting the wires together and creating heat as a byproduct).

    The exciter coil works exactly the same way as the lighting coil, but it's wound for high voltage instead of high amperage. This is the power source for the CDI to get it's charge. At kick/pull/electric start engine speeds, it should create 80-100v PEAK AC. Peak voltage is different than the normal voltage reading on AC. From memory 120v AC is 170v peak (the true high point of the curve, instead of an RMS measurement). The pulse generator is a mini stator, it has a iron core and a copper winding. There's a small tab on the fly wheel, or in the 200es's case on the spark advance rotor that generates a power spike. It makes 0.7v min peak voltage and is purely to tell the CDI when to discharge the exciter coil charge to the ignition coil.

    Also it's worth mentioning that the lighting coil doesn't create 12v AC, it makes more like 20-24v AC at idle (atleast that's what my 350x makes) and can peak out around 50v+ at high revs. The voltage regulator sinks the extra voltage to regulate it to around 13.5-14.5v that's safe for charging a 12v flooded lead acid battery.

    Anyway, there's not much going on for the lighting coil AC circuit, the CDI AC circuit has a bit going on, but nothing super crazy. The inhibitor switch and neutral/reverse safety switches are the most confusing part of the CDI circuit. Also since the AC from the lighting coil is a floating type, the exciter coil would not interact with it as it's completely isolated. However the green wire out of the regulator as 12v would be a way to complete the exciter coil's circuit.

    I talk a bit more about CDI's and how they work in this thread, kind of a long thread though.
    http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/187411

    Also here's a thread I made about the peak voltage testing I did on my 350x. It has the low ohm exciter coil, I have a theory that the higher ohm exciter coil creates a higher voltage.
    http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthr...-Exciter-Coil)

    The way a peak voltage tester/adapter works is the AC power goes though a diode (half way rectified into DC), and charges a capacitor till it won't take any more charge. The multi meter reads the DC voltage off the capacitor. The measurements realistically have around +0.7v to the readings because of the diode's voltage drop.

    Anyway, onto the harness topic, just wondering why do you want to build a new harness? I suspect your OEM one is trashed? If you don't care about lights, electric start, etc, it's a fairly simple harness to make, but the stock setup with the regulator, battery etc, it's not really an ideal first wire harness project. Hooking up wires the wrong way, or not fused could result in a fire since the battery can probably put out 100amp+ when dead shorted.

    Here's a site that I've used to buy terminals/connectors. I think they have everything you'd need except the CDI connector. The round 6 pin is more or less out of production, I'm hoping a Chinese company or someone is making a clone of it some day (the CDI side has been already). The bullet terminals are 3.5mm on your Honda.

    http://cycleterminal.com/

    Anyway, hand made from nothing harness isn't an impossible job, but expect it to take you 8+ hours for your first one bare min. I'd guess it would probably take me around 6 hours to make based on wire count and complexity. A "race" harness with not lighting/battery wiring would probably be like an hour or two. Each connector takes a bit more time because of installing the terminals in the housing, and making sure you get the pin out correct etc.

    Good luck with your project, I can help with some things related to the harness stuff. I'm working on a lot of public info projects, and one of them is a better wire diagram that gives component specs and pin outs, but it's been a bit on hold lately.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    SW Oregon United States
    --
    145
    Sorry I didn't get back to this thread sooner but since my project is outside the weather has dictated to kinda put it on hold. Cold tools, rain don't agree with me. Anyhow I am continuing to grasp what you said and will check back hopefully soon. I'll have to search thru some bookmarks but did locate a round chinese six way that was pretty inexpensive, I converted mine some time ago to a square cdi.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
    --
    4,114
    Mind sending me the link on the round 6 pin connector you speak of? Or was the for a CDI? I have a source for the CDI side, unsure if they can make the harness side though.

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