'83 Honda ATC 200E Spark and timing issue- need guidance maybe a peptalk

[Pierce1989]

Hey y'all, need another round of help. I had the project '83 Honda ATC 200E idling perfectly earlier, then all of a sudden it cut off and now has no spark. The battery had probably been dead forever and I am pullstarting it. At first it wouldn't start because the battery negative was disconnected on accident. Connected it, and spark again and it was idling great, which was surprising considering the picture below. Then lost spark all of a sudden. I have a few questions for y'all

1. As long as the ground cable to battery is either connected to battery or frame, does the other part of the electric start system not matter? I don't plan on using it but don't know if I need to go through as well to check for connections, or if it is irrelevant as long as the excitor coil is good.

2. I put the piston right before TDC on the F mark, valves closed, and the pulse rotor is way off from the pickup coil line. I've made adjustments in the past to pickup coil by moving the base to line them up, but this cannot be adjusted like that. It's way off. Also the advancer spring does not work. So it was idling earlier and slow revving but I bet under heavy load it wouldn't work very well. Can someone walk me through fixing this? I have the service manual but it doesn't say what to do if they're way off on lining up.

Edit..3. On all my regular 200 engines, when you remove the pull start, you can turn the flywheel by hand to the left and if you miss the F or T mark for example by a little bit, you can move it back to the right. This 200E engine if you miss the F or T mark, you can't move it back to the right at all. Is this normal?

Thanks so much for any help y'all, I'm nervous to remove the bolt and hoping an explanation/walkthrough will get me going. The advancer springs or mechanism may be able to be fixed as well if I need to remove that bolt, anyone have any experience with a frozen advancer?

[Pierce1989]

I just dug in and found two issues. Firstly, the advance mechanism is seized and both springs are broken. It looks very rusted, and was difficult to even get the pulse rotor off the shaft. I don't know where the other parts of the springs could have even gone but they weren't there. Does anyone have one they'd like to sell? ps2fixer, are you going to come to the rescue again?

Secondly, the timing looks definitely off. If I've been reading correctly, when piston is TDC, flywheel is on T line, the O on the cam chain sprocket should be directly up, which mine is pretty off. Surprisingly, the engine was firing and idling on its own with a broken spark advancer and timing pretty off. Does anyone know how this could be fixed from how it is now with the cam chain exposed, or would the engine have to be removed and head removed, etc? I felt so close to having this thing ready after hearing the engine firing and now just set back again unfortunately.

Could the cam chain have skipped teeth maybe? And I could remove it, move the cam back to line up, put cam chain back on tight, and it's that easy? Just thinkin here

[Gabriel]

Ps2fixer has those springs.

[Pierce1989]

Ps2fixer has those springs.

I may need the whole pulse rotor assembly. Mine is rusted and won't move at all. May be able to soak it in oil and get it moving again, not sure. Gabriel, do you know what could be going on with the timing or how it could be this off but still fired and idled? Could the chain be removed from that top cam sprocket, the sprocket rotated to where the O is at 12oclock with the flywheel on T, then the chain put back on and it would resolve the timing? hoping it's this easy...

[83ATC185]

if it was running/idling and the chain is tight i wouldn't touch it until you got that advancer fixed, you can remove the clips and the whole thing comes apart and you can soak it in apple cider vinegar for a few days to remove the rust and get new the new springs, just make sure you reinstall the rotor to the base the same way it was, it can easily be put in 180 out and it will never run. there should be a dot on the base if i recall correctly?

[Gabriel]

If you put it in right, I don’t think you can put it in 180 degrees out. There’s a dowel pin in the cam that lines it up.
Don’t lose that dowel. It’s tiny.

Soak it and get it clean. Vinegar does work. I like Evapo-rust but as long as it’s clean it don’t matter.

[83ATC185]

I was saying if you were to take the e clips off and remove the rotor from the base, you can reinstall it 180 degrees off in relation to that dowel pin.

[Gabriel]

Ahh gotcha.

[ATC King]

Edit..3. On all my regular 200 engines, when you remove the pull start, you can turn the flywheel by hand to the left and if you miss the F or T mark for example by a little bit, you can move it back to the right. This 200E engine if you miss the F or T mark, you can't move it back to the right at all. Is this normal?

200E-Electric Start.

There's a sprag clutch in the starter mechanism, which only engages in one direction and provides the drive for the starter. That's probably why you can't turn it back. If you could easily turn it back, that clutch would likely be bad and the starter wouldn't work, or would work intermittently.

[Pierce1989]

200E-Electric Start.

There's a sprag clutch in the starter mechanism, which only engages in one direction and provides the drive for the starter. That's probably why you can't turn it back. If you could easily turn it back, that clutch would likely be bad and the starter wouldn't work, or would work intermittently.

Thanks for the explanation, now it makes sense. I was thinking there was something wrong with my motor.

[wellys88]

Not true. You can still turn engine back

[ATC King]

The starter spins when turning the crankshaft backwards.

So to that, is the starter on yours seized? That would certainly cause the issue you described.

From your first post, it seems like the electric start is currently not functioning. The starter is easy to remove if that's something you need to look into. It won't hurt anything if it is seized or has really high friction because everything just freewheels when the engine is running and the starter doesn't turn. Got to have it in there, to keep oil from leaking out.