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Thread: ATC200 1984 Refuses to Start, Low Compression

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Missouri
    --
    35
    Quote Originally Posted by dwheeler23 View Post
    Hopefully you got the head gasket surface a lot cleaner than that before you assembled it. I'll wait for all your pics I guess

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Missouri
    --
    35
    P.S. Your exhaust valve looks trashed, corroded, pitted and possible has been damaged.

    Whatever you are scratching around with please stop. Aluminum is soft

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    PA
    --
    29
    i was double checking if the valve seats or springs had any major damage but i will upload that next. What would that consist of a picture of the cam & sprocket?

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    PA
    --
    29
    All that material is stuck i cant get it off without scratching it. Yes i need to be careful with the aluminum i tried my best . I might also be able to find a spare running motor from my buddy as a last option but id rather not

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Missouri
    --
    35
    Show the position of the cam when the flywheel timing is at "T" on the compression stroke.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Missouri
    --
    35
    Quote Originally Posted by dwheeler23 View Post
    All that material is stuck i cant get it off without scratching it. Yes i need to be careful with the aluminum i tried my best . I might also be able to find a spare running motor from my buddy as a last option but id rather not
    Yes you can, and if you didn't get it off, it is not going to seal.

    What you need, is a mechanic.

    What you might try, if you want to keep going, is to buy a carbide gasket scraper. That residue has to be gone. Now, as a tech, I am concerned with a lot of other things.

    Do you have the factory service manual, or are you just winging it?

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Missouri
    --
    35
    Also I want to say that if you want to be the one to make this engine run, you can do it.

    Yes your exhaust valve looks to be trash. If it is already disassembled again, you should just take the head apart, send it for service, and buy new valves.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    PA
    --
    29
    I do have the factory service manual online and thats like a 160$ service correct? I got the cylinder rebored + piston kit for around that price. The spare running motor might cost me only 100$ so idk what is my best move. I have a metal gasket scraper, razors, and plastic scrapers and after scraping forever while doing the piston installation lots of left over gasket material were on still edges. Maybe my headgasket is not sealing nicely but such low compression 15-30psi i feel like its something else . The gasket you see pictures is almost burned in. Il send over cam timing pics a little later i have to step out for a bit. Once i adjust the valve clearance again and reassemble does the motor have to be fully connected to the carb & drive chain to test compression properly?

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    TN
    --
    1,065
    Gasket scraping absolutely sucks. I've been known to get mad and use my die grinder with a wire brush. You can remove aluminum with one so it's really a bad idea. You have to REALLY watch what you're doing. When I do, I color all bare metal with a sharpie as a witness mark to make sure I don't go over it again.
    I was born and raised on Venus & I may be here a while.....

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    central oregon
    --
    78
    Put the spark plug in the head to plug hole, fill the cavity where the valves are with fuel...see how quick it drains out past the valves...it should not drain. If it does your valves/seats need refreshed.

    Also you gotta get all that old gasket off carefully...you need to be sealed perfectly!
    Twin 1982 ATC200's
    1985 350X
    1985 200X
    and a bunch of 2 wheelers

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Missouri
    --
    35
    Quote Originally Posted by dwheeler23 View Post
    I do have the factory service manual online and thats like a 160$ service correct? I got the cylinder rebored + piston kit for around that price. The spare running motor might cost me only 100$ so idk what is my best move. I have a metal gasket scraper, razors, and plastic scrapers and after scraping forever while doing the piston installation lots of left over gasket material were on still edges. Maybe my headgasket is not sealing nicely but such low compression 15-30psi i feel like its something else . The gasket you see pictures is almost burned in. Il send over cam timing pics a little later i have to step out for a bit. Once i adjust the valve clearance again and reassemble does the motor have to be fully connected to the carb & drive chain to test compression properly?
    No the compression can be checked with no carb on. Yes I know the gasket seems burned on, I have rebuilt, maybe 100 or more of these engines.

    Here is a link for head service by someone that i have used with perfect results. To have the head completely disassembled, seats cut with a 5 angle serdi, surface shaved flat, reassembled and sent back to you it's about 80 bucks, plus parts, which you should buy and send with. I know it says crf50 head for the auction bu the service and price is exactly the same for any 2 valve air cooled head, just send him a note with your head. https://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-CRF50...YAAMXQHDlRcL9r

    Then you have to put it together correctly.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Missouri
    --
    35
    Here is their website, and their email address is there. I dealt with them through ebay.

    http://www.zforcemotorsports.com/

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    PA
    --
    29
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Im 99% sure i got the cam timing correct. Valve timing im a little confused on am i adjusting it at "T" when the piston is at the Top nearest the spark plug hole or the bottom.

    When aligning "T" and the 0 on the cam sprocket with the Top Notch, the piston is at the top nearest spark plug as seen in the picture and the both intake and exhaust arms/valve adjusters jiggle a little since i probably loosened them too much if anything (P.S. the exhaust valve adjuster is tighter to adjust compared to the intake). Still got 30 psi compression on ressembly.


    Sorry if thats confusing maybe im not adjusting the valves on the right stroke. I feel like i adjusted them on both and still nothing. Also just cracked my pulsegen base ugh frustrating
    Last edited by dwheeler23; 03-09-2019 at 02:17 AM.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Missouri
    --
    35
    In that picture, I think your cam timing is one tooth off.

    Thank you for the pics, in this fashion you will find your way to the end. Only way to fail is to give up. It may cost a little more but you are paying for experience and knowledge.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Missouri
    --
    35
    So, retard the cam sprocket one tooth and show the results. Be mindful that I told you the exhaust valve looks trashed. Also, if you put it back together with that gasket residue still on the head, then you aren't listening, you just want it done. Building engines is not about wanting it done it's about doing something yourself and doing it right until it is done. You don't seem like the type thats late for a race so what's the hurry? Your tools look hard and sharp. If you are cussing, scratching and scraping, this is not the hobby for you. Nothing in this field works if you are impatient.

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