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Thread: New member with an old ATC200

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
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    4,114
    Seat pan/seat came out pretty good. Who cares what the welds are like as long as it holds together for your needs, you can't see them when installed anyway.

    Can't really comment on the throttle swap, but I'd be interested in hearing other's experiences on it though. I'm kind of guessing new and old style uses the same basic dimensions for the cable, so maybe OEM would work? I'd be temped to take some measurements on my 350x throttle vs a 200es to see how much different they are if I could get to my house and measure them myself.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    --
    32
    Seat pan/seat came out pretty good. Who cares what the welds are like as long as it holds together for your needs, you can't see them when installed anyway.
    My saving grace

    Can't really comment on the throttle swap, but I'd be interested in hearing other's experiences on it though. I'm kind of guessing new and old style uses the same basic dimensions for the cable, so maybe OEM would work? I'd be temped to take some measurements on my 350x throttle vs a 200es to see how much different they are if I could get to my house and measure them myself.
    Cable will be different at the throttle side, it screws in the thumb throttle side on the newer one. I tried it with my '03 recon's throttle but the cable was a few inches too long. Not sure what other hondas would have a shorter cable, my experience is somewhat limited

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
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    4,114
    Ahh I see what you mean. The 350x screws into the thumb throttle housing too. I was thinking more of the actual cable end differences but yea that difference kind of effects things a lot lol.

    Normally I scan though ebay listings to see what parts might fit since you have a pretty good idea what it should look like. If you find a possible match, send a message to a few sellers to see if they would measure the length for you (lower feedback normally responds better with that info).

    I know custom cables are a thing, but I don't know where or what details you'd need to get one made correctly.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    --
    32
    Well I got it running today. Spliced together the remains of my wiring harness with one from another atv so I could plug an on-hand CDI In until I get the new stuff...
    No smoke, but...
    Had some issues taking off the CDI cover *cough*.. any ideas what that noise is? timing chain or something else?
    Also it doesnt seem to want to go into neutral, looks like I will have to tear into the engine after all.


    EDIT: I checked it again. looks like one of the springs on the timing advancer broke...don't know how I missed that. oh well
    Last edited by Lanix; 05-27-2019 at 07:00 PM.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
    --
    4,114
    Here's my listing for the Honda replacement springs from a newer model machine.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Pair-of...cAAOSwa-dWsCAo

    If it's ticking pretty bad after the springs are installed, you might need a timing chain. There's instructions on how to tighten it up in the service manual, basically loosen the nut on the crank case to let it move and tighten back up. Once the chain wears too much it will run out of range to tighten it more and the chain has to be replaced.

    For the harness stuff, I do make new replacement harnesses. For the ATC200/ATC200S models I charge about $75. I'll be a little slow getting it done if you want me to make one though because I just had surgery.

    Besides the ticking, sounds like the engine is running pretty healthy.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    --
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by ps2fixer View Post
    Here's my listing for the Honda replacement springs from a newer model machine.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Pair-of...cAAOSwa-dWsCAo

    If it's ticking pretty bad after the springs are installed, you might need a timing chain. There's instructions on how to tighten it up in the service manual, basically loosen the nut on the crank case to let it move and tighten back up. Once the chain wears too much it will run out of range to tighten it more and the chain has to be replaced.

    For the harness stuff, I do make new replacement harnesses. For the ATC200/ATC200S models I charge about $75. I'll be a little slow getting it done if you want me to make one though because I just had surgery.

    Besides the ticking, sounds like the engine is running pretty healthy.
    Already ordered the springs. And we already discussed the harness

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
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    4,114

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Charleston, SC
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    32
    Replaced the springs and it made all the difference, with the 1 broken and 1 worn out spring it could barely move itself, now it runs great, shifts good, rides even better. still needs a few things, but is in a good place for the moment.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Kenora Ontario
    --
    13
    Being just a atc 200 and not a e es or m means it's a plainjain motor and is Lighter it is one of the faster 200 models

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
    --
    4,114
    Quote Originally Posted by Mullet_Man View Post
    Being just a atc 200 and not a e es or m means it's a plainjain motor and is Lighter it is one of the faster 200 models
    Are you claiming the atc200 has more hp than the E,ES,M or just saying the drive system is more efficient. I doubt there's a major difference between chain drive vs chain drive with a transfer case (200M & 200E), shaft drive eats up a bit of power (200ES), but I think it's 10% or less.

    According to the write up linked below, the numbers they use was about 16% losses in the whole drive line (including transmission). I think typically cars are stated to have 20% losses overall so seems pretty accurate. Here's the break down of their numbers since all the machines will have basically the same transmission losses since they are nearly the same engine besides the output of the trans.

    Transmission efficiency: 94.1% (5.9% loss)
    Driveshaft efficiency: 98% (2% loss)
    Differential efficiency: 93.1% (6.9% loss)
    CV Axle efficiency: 98% (2% loss) - 3 wheelers don't have this loss since it's a solid shaft direct to the hubs/rims/tires.

    I've read chain drive (front to rear sprocket) is about 99% efficient if in good shape and lubricated.

    Overall, losses using those numbers would be 85.9% efficient (14.1% losses) vs 93.2% efficient (6.8% losses), which means there's about double the losses in shaft drive vs chain drive.

    Using the 82-83 ATC200E Honda service manual, it states the peak hp is 13hp @ 7000 rpm which I'm pretty sure is crank HP, not after drive line losses.

    Based on this math, it would mean shaft drive is about 11.17WHP while chain drive is 12.12WHP. I've never done the math before (stealing automotive numbers from the page below), but about 7% different in power isn't game changing or anything in my book. Throw a 350x engine in the frame and you double the hp ~27hp =).

    Of course weight is a factor in speed and such, I wonder what kind of like 0-40mph times the different machines have stock vs stock.

    https://x-engineer.org/automotive-en...es-efficiency/


    @Lanix, yep those springs are pretty critical on a good running engines. The wrong ignition timing makes the best shape engines run horrible. I bought a Toyota Camry that some backyard mechanic did the timing belt job, my dad drove it home while I followed and it had no power at all for going up hills, but it cruised just fine. Found the timing to be about 30 degrees off and somehow the ECU was able to make it run and run fairly smooth. That's mechanical timing btw (cam vs crank). Car ran so much better after doing the job the right way.
    Last edited by ps2fixer; 06-28-2019 at 11:37 PM.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Edmond, KS
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    2,531
    I believe that all of the auto clutch 200 models were rated at the same 13 HP. Maybe that changed in the later models though (like 86 & 87).

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Kenora Ontario
    --
    13
    It's not that the shaft drive models have less power they are just slower then the chain driven because a heavier drive system takes a lot more time and energy to build inertia on a long enough flat stretch all the 200s should be somewhat close

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
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    I see, I thought that was what you was getting at. I was wondering about the actual numbers so I went the extra mile even though it's not *real* numbers, just ones that link used.

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