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Thread: 83 ATC 200e questions

  1. #46
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Canada
    --
    49
    Appreciate the input again. Was at the bike earlier for a little while again. Filled the engine up with oil, made a little pin to fit in the hi lo lever slot, worked perfectly. Put the new battery in the bike. Started some basic troubleshooting, however I’ll review your wiring tomorrow and start really troubleshooting. Some observations, batteries good, solenoid tests to be fine. I’m having a issue on the control side of the circuit I think. I tested the momentary push button starter and there was no continuity down to the solenoid. I do know that the electric starter motor itself works. So I’m thinking there’s a break between either the push button start or maybe something to do with the neutral switch. I’d like to hook up a led neutral light so I can tell the bikes in neutral. On my 200E there’s no factory lights on the “dash”. Also I do have power to the tail light. However the previous owner has a red wire ran outside the factory harness to the headlight. He may have bypassed the original circuit. I’m hoping to have some fun on the trike before I’m gone all summer. But I’m thinking one of your harness’ would be a next upgrade for me.
    Thanks

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
    --
    4,114
    I can't recall for sure which dash had just a neutral light, but I think it might have been the ATC125M 84-85. Most machines have a diode for the neutral/reverse lights, haven't quite figured out why, like the machines that have the safety systems tied into the CDI makes sense so the lights don't trip the safety system. In theory you should be able to tap into the yellow/red wire for power when ignition on, and the light green/red wire for the neutral switch and be good. Both connection points should be in the headlight bucket or near there. I could probably make an adapter to tie into it and the neutral bulb socket for the ATC125M style dash, I'll just have to figure out if the diode is needed or not.

    Anyway, the wire diagram I made shows the parts are their most simplest form, just basic switches. You could test each part till you find an issue, or start at the solenoid and test for ground/power with all the switches closed (ignition switch on, in neutral, and starter button held in). I think it's somewhat common for the starter buttons to get dirty inside and have a hard time making a connection. Broken wires are getting more common due to the age of these machines. If I remember right, the starter button can be taken apart, it should only be a few parts including a spring.

    I guess the easiest way to boil it down is, either it's one of the switches that failed, the contact in the solenoid is bad (clicks but no start), or a bad connection/broken wire somewhere between.

    Btw, the service manual should have an actual test procedure for the solenoid. Generally it's test ohms between the two big lugs, no connection for normal state, and shorted connection when powered.


    The red wire bypass for the headlight might be a sign. That tells me there was problems getting power to the lights, so the red wire near the battery and the fuse would be my start point. The solenoid system gets it's power from the same source, in fact it runs though the ignition switch as the same wire before it splits off at the hand bar controls. The ignition switch could be bad as well, generally they can be taken apart and cleaned if it's the OEM metal housing style. I mod Chinese switches as well if you find it bad. Not the greatest switch in the world, but I feel it's a happy medium of cost vs quality.

  3. #48
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Canada
    --
    49
    Well got the electric start figured out! It’s working now. The push button looks corroded internally so I’d rather replace that. However there were a few issues going on. The 7 amp fuse line was frayed and basically no connection so I’ll have to replace that. Proved the neutral switch does indeed work, it grounds as it should. Traced it back to the dark green and red wire that provides the ground for the solenoid. There was no continuity between the dark green / red wire down to the connector for the solenoid switch. I temporarily bypassed from the neutral switch down to the connector and it started to spin!
    So on the current list to do
    New push button start
    Buy led light to indicate neutral
    Get new 7 amp fuse holder.
    Replace the dark green with red wire.

    I’d like to get a new harness for this thing. Two bad wires in the harness running full length

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
    --
    4,114
    Not sure if you're wanting to keep an OEM look or not, but I'd say swap the dash out for one with the neutral light already. If you get lucky you could get one with the socket already, I have LED's that fit the sockets and to my eyes look the same as the stock light.

    Here's the first one that I found, $17.50, swap your ignition switch over, and you'll need the socket off me or a used one.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/84-85-Honda...UAAOxyaTxTUIdO

    Here's the neutral light socket I make, I can throw in the LED light free if you want to try it out. 84 vs 85 is just wire color differences. This should match your stock harness colors. I can't think of any reason a diode would be needed, so this should work fine.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-1984-...IAAOSwEUdcGD6G

    For the fuse holder, you'd either have to get a replacement battery cable with the fuse holder in good shape, or mod it with something from like the auto parts store or something like that. The 200es used a 10amp fused, so I'd think it would be pretty safe to oversize it if you can't find 7amp around.

    Based on your description, the issue is between the starter button wire to the solenoid. I'd say do an ohms test on the harness to validate the actual wire is at fault. If the wires on the harness are stiff and/or cracking, that's a clear sign it's time to replace. I have some template harnesses that are so hard, I'm scared to touch them because the insulation just crumbles. Most of them were sold on ebay as a ready to use harness, some sellers are a joke with that stuff, but then again, it was cheaper to buy a not so good harness to base replacements on.

    Talking about harnesses, I have an 82 harness, but not an 83. Maybe we can work out a deal where I discount off the new harness in exchange for keeping your old harness? The biggest thing I need to be good on it is the overall layout, generally missing wire ends here and there isn't a big deal.

    Just to make sure you have an 83 harness, you should have a fuse holder that looks similar to this one, yea another product I make lol.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/192053553499



    I did a quick search for the cheapest harness that should work for a template, and found one with no missing connectors etc for pretty cheap, so I'll grab it. No obligations on having me make a harness or anything, this just completes my collection more, got all the 200 series big red harnesses now. Also snatched a $6 Yamaha harness too =). Only 3 more harnesses and I'll have all Honda 3 wheeler stock harnesses on hand.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Canada
    --
    49
    I have a similar style fuse holder, it doesn’t have connector on it, someone just got a common lug on the end. The other dash would be nice that you listed.thats great that you have a template harness! I’m definitely planning on getting a new harness made up for this bike eventually. I haven’t drove it much yet, so I’m hoping to take it out a few times then work on it again. Just waiting for the rear sprocket then I can put everything back together in no time. I have a load of parts for this bike, I’ll have to dig through some of it, I bet there’s at least another harness or two there for templates as well.

    As well I didn’t measure the resistance earlier when troubleshooting, I just used my multimeter with the audible continuity function, and it didn’t beep at all from behind the headlight dark green with red down to the same dark green with red at the solenoid switch.
    Most of the harness wires seem moveable, however one or two wires are certainly shot. Another thing I’m not a fan of is behind the headlight, I’d like to organize the wires, it looks like a jumbled mess. With a new harness it would certainly bring some piece of mind for the ol trike. To me, I’d rather the old 200 over a new machine anyday.

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
    --
    4,114
    Yea the wires in the headlight bucket area always a mess lol, hard to really do much about that due to how you have to hook them up and such.

    I didn't look at the wire diagrams a whole lot, but the 82 and 83 should be pretty similar layout. The extra fuse holder thing is only on the 83 and 84 200es. Heck the 200es harness might work. I just haven't compared the 3 years to know how much different they really are.

    Anyway, the 3 harnesses I'm down to are a couple ATC250R years and the 87 ATC200X harness which is super close to the 86 harness, I have the notes for the differences

    Good luck digging though the parts, hopefully you can find a harness to use to get some seat time on the machine =).

  7. #52
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Canada
    --
    49
    For sure, should have the back sprocket in another day or two! im waiting on the new muffler coming in the mail. Would it hurt the bike if i drove it a couple times without the muffler for the time being? The old muffler was rusted out.
    Also I think im developing a keen interest in three wheelers already... Found a mint (collector shape) 200m for sale locally for 800$ Canadian, think i might pick it up... I really love the colors of the M with red and orange.

    Burden

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    TN
    --
    1,065
    How close do your neighbors live? LOL!!

    Only thing it might hurt if cold air rushes back in ona hot valve. Could bend it. Doubtful. If it's a concern, you could lay someting over the pipe soon as you shut it down. I wouldn't worry about it. The header pipe is plenty long to keep that from happening.
    I was born and raised on Venus & I may be here a while.....

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
    --
    4,114
    Make sure you run the engine with at least the header pipe, it will be really loud and probably run quite lean but if the exhaust was already trashed, it might be tuned a bit for that situation. Putting around shouldn't hurt anything, really romping on it could meak it get too hot. Burn exhaust valves and such can happen when it's too lean or no head pipe. Throwing on the full length pipe would probably be best insurance.

    I ran a 250es with just the header pipe for a short time with no issues. I ran the same engine with no head pipe just to hear the funny sound it makes. It's worth while doing that once with a honda... or just watch a video of it.

    This basically is what the 250es sounded like with the head pipe, ran like crap just like the one in the video too.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIhaIEgqJ0A

    Not a honda, but the same sound. It ironically runs fairly good for being so lean, almost like he tuned it to run with no exhaust or something. Defo not the best to keep reving the snot out of the engine.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ6GYBDPhJE

  10. #55
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Canada
    --
    49
    Okay guys, my collection got slightly bigger today, but thats it for me. no more purchases now haha. Picked up this 200m, shes in great condition. I ended up getting it for 600 canadian after which i think is around 400 ish american. Everything works on it, has factory toolkits with it as well
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  11. #56
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
    --
    4,114
    Sounds like a deal to me, nice pickup. According to google, 600CAD = 450ish USD. You can get the conversion by typing in "600 cad to usd" and it spits out a page for the exchange rate. Kind of crazy, I remember when I was a kit CAD and USD effectively were the same value, I didn't think they were so far apart now.

    FYI, your photos ended up upside down lol.

  12. #57
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Canada
    --
    49
    For sure, and thanks ! im quite happy with it. Having two good trikes makes things nice, now i got one to drive until the other one is back together, then eventually ill have the second one to play around with or let family/friends drive(sensibly lol).I'm gonna change the oil in the new bike and drive it a few times then check out the engine specs and she how things look like cam tensioner and stuff. I read in the manual today that it should be adjusted every 60 days or so. So i'm gonna adopt the things to check / adjust as per the manual. I managed to borrow one of the those Clydes manuals for the atc 200. Very detailed, i like them.

    Yes, big difference in dollar value for sure! I always remember that its like 1.3 or 1.34 american to canadian or about 30 odd percent more. Once upon a time I got paid in US dollars, it was nice !

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    AK
    --
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by NlBurden View Post
    I read in the manual today that it should be adjusted every 60 days or so.
    Personally I have seen many wheelers go 6 years or so without a problem. I did have to deal with a jumped chain at five years, so I am not recommending six years.

    Around this neck of the woods, with a tank and seat like that it would be considered a steal. Den

  14. #59
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Canada
    --
    49
    What kind of oil do you guys recommend running? I know the manual calls for 10w40, I am thinking running 5w30 instead in the trikes because the weather here is usually colder all year long. We only get about 1 month or so of actually “hot weather”. I think thinner viscosity would be best

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
    --
    4,114
    Below is from the service manual, a lighter oil is fine, according to the manual it's just best to avoid running it in 90F+ weather. Also it has the certs you need on the oil. You need SE or SF on the donut on the back of the oil jug. Peronsally I've had good luck with Rotella T 10W45, however I think the 10W30 and 5W30 doesn't have the right certs. The 10W45 is basically oil for diesel engines instead of 10W30 for cars. Thicker oil increases oil pressure and such, as long as there's still enough flow it's not a bad thing to run, but cold it might be a bit hard starting. Going too thin can be bad, big time if there's a lot of wear causing low oil pressure.

    Generally, it's good to run synthetic oil for easier starting and less wear, but it also tends to leak past oil seals easier. It's kind of one of them things to try, and if it leaks either replace the seals, or switch to standard oil again. Also don't forget to clean out the metal screen at the bottom of the engine with the big cap. That's the "oil filter" for the system.

    Anyway, there's probably a lot of opinions for which oil brand etc to use, I just say to follow the service manual and pick the oil you prefer with the right certs. Worst case, even junk oil today isn't half bad, just change it often, good oils generally last quite a long time. I run Mobile Advance Full Synthetic oil in my car/truck and go 15k miles between changes with an oil filter swap out about half way though. Oil at the end is just starting to get dark. Typical dino juice oil after 4-5k is normally as dark or darker. Color doesn't mean everything on oil, but it's what I generally go by. Charcoal black means it's some nasty stuff and probably has been way too long since the last change.




    Here's a pic from today for my 1990 Lexus LS400's oil. Defo over due for an oil change. No clue what the last owner ran, but probably not synthetic. Bought it with 218k miles, currently at 227.5k, basically 10k miles. Looks like it's about 1/5qt low, not bad for 10k miles and it had a valve cover leak when I got it. I just tightened the bolts down a little on for now to slow the leak or maybe stop it.



    If you want to see a charcoal black example, I'm sure one of the parts vehicles I have around would be neglected enough to be a good example.

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