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Thread: 83 ATC 200e questions

  1. #76
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    Another interesting machine you might like is a Fat Cat, basically a motorcycle with atv tires.


  2. #77
    Jd110's Avatar
    Jd110 is offline Just Too Addicted Arm chair racerJust too addicted
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    Quote Originally Posted by NlBurden View Post
    Well I got the bike together today. Fixed the tail light, tidied up everything and got the fenders back on plus the back rack and stuff like that. Only one last problem to figure out now, that pullcord assembly is still messed up. Itís rebuilt with a new rope and does its job off the bike. When I bolt it onto the bike it gets caught. Itíll be very hard to pull it virtually unable to pull it. Iíll manage to be able slowly pull the cord out then itís stuck and wonít recoil. When I take the bolts back out it recoils instantly. I noticed the 3 bolts that holds the basket/cup on have scoring marks as if itís being rubbed against the recoils internals. I thought the recoil was as simple as bolting it back on haha! Not sure what my issue is
    Not sure whatís up with the binding- mine works fine without a gasket.
    Might be good idea, when the recoil is taken off the machine, to periodically open it to clean, inspect and grease ratchets and ratchet springs. Reset the recoil starter spring and Iíd do a new rope. The manual through this site has helped me, tremendously!
    There should be a decompression lever on your machine to be used with the pull starter, also.


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  3. #78
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    Jd110 is offline Just Too Addicted Arm chair racerJust too addicted
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    Looking back further in the thread, it appears you have the wrong pulley installed in the correct housing.
    Possibly find out what model itís for and try the appropriate basket.


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  4. #79
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    May 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jd110 View Post
    Looking back further in the thread, it appears you have the wrong pulley installed in the correct housing.
    Possibly find out what model it’s for and try the appropriate basket.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Appreciate the reply! Been busy with life past few weeks. I figured out what’s going on with the pullcord. It may have the wrong pullcord on the bike. When I bought the bike it came with a load of spare parts, wouldn’t surprise me if the previous owner just used parts off a different model. I needed to shim the pullcord Out with a thick gasket. Works good now!
    Had the bike out for my first real spin on it. Was not a very good one.
    I either had a electric issue or something going on still.

    First off the bike ignition switch nor killswitch is working still.So I couldn’t shut the bike off.
    I got a new ignition switch ordered, but still don’t know why the killswitch isn’t working either.
    I took the bike up some local trails, it was dying on me. It kept trying to die and was losing power. If she’s warmed up and sitting on idle it sounds okay, but when I drive it , it dies down and shuts off. When I restart the bike after cranking for a while, sometimes it won’t start unless I pull the throttle all the way in. I tried going up a hill and he’ll I had to keep it in first gear and even that was pushing it. I’m thinking it’s a spark / ignition issue or could be a carb/ fuel issue

  5. #80
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    Sounds to me like a carb issue, i'd guess lean and the carb needs cleaned out. The 200E isn't the most powerful machine in the world, but it can handle hills fine, not normal for first gear only.

    Does it make kind of a bog noise when you give it more throttle? Any popping in the intake/exhaust? Also, pull out the spark plug and take a photo of it. Normal should be a light brown color, lean is white powder, and rich is black soot.

    The ignition switch not working and kill switch suggests to me there's a bad/cut wire after it combines. Somewhere in the main harness between the kill switches and the CDI box. If you can't find any area's the wiring has been modified, cut, or touched, check over the CDI connector wires, maybe one of them is broken. If I recall correctly, the kill wire is solid black. When you kill the engine, it shorts that wire to green (ground) to kill the engine, the action of killing the engine is performed at the CDI. It's quite unlikely both kill switch and ignition switch failed at the same time, but you can test them with a multi meter in ohms/beep mode. Between the Black and green wire should have connection when switched off, and when switched on, the other two wires should be shorted (I think the colors are Red and Yellow/Red for that machine, didn't look it up).

    Another thing to mention are the spark advancer springs under the "CDI" cover on the engine head. They can get rusty or break with age/use, so if they are damaged, grab a new pair off the 3ww shop or ebay, I can link you if you want. These wouldn't make the machine run as bad as you describe, but it would make it lower hp and slow to rev.

    These machines are not exaclty perfect condition, your machine should run atleast as good as these.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5Dq0-8-0dA

  6. #81
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    May 2019
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    What exactly are the spark advancer springs ? I never noticed them before. The bike is running badly. When I give it throttle, it would pop and try to die. If i kept the ride engine speed and rpm it would be fine. It was letting out some backfires and sounded like the ignition was not hitting right. I have a brand new carb in the box that I bought a while back, are they typically set up good to go ? Like if I bolt the new carb on it should be fine ? I’ll take a video of the bike tomorrow. I used to have a old Skidoo 2 cylinder, when that thing popped or spoiled a plug it would run like dirt. I plan on replacing the ignition coil, switches, carb,
    Eventually harness!
    So In a note: bikes losing power when giving it throttle( while driving / under load), back firing and popping a bit. Frequently stalling if not touching the throttle, and being a bit troublesome to start. I had one plug foul with black fuel earlier, replaced it and fouled again.

  7. #82
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    Apr 2012
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    Interesting, to me the back firing and such suggests lean condition. Maybe the pilot jet is way too big, and the main jet is way too small making idle super rich, and mid to high rpm too lean. The carb that's on it, is it the stock carb? The stock carb is marked PD55A for 82-83 ATC200E, stock main jet is #95 and there isn't a spec for pilot so maybe non-removable. It says Pilot screw should be at 1 1/8 turns out, and the main jet is on 2nd slot.

    Jumping over to partzilla to look up part numbers and based on their site, the pilot jet is #38

    Main - https://www.partzilla.com/product/ho...efbb72df8728e3
    Pilot/Slow - https://www.partzilla.com/product/ho...efbb72df8728e3

    If your carb isn't stock, starting with those jets should get you in the ball park. Practically everything effects the jetting, including if the exhaust is rusted out, your elevation, etc. The stock jetting ideally should be a tiny bit on the rich side to account for worst case scenario, but that's not always the case.

    Since you mention a new carb, I'm taking a wild guess it's a china carb, people have hit or miss luck with them for being good/junk. As the saying goes, you get what you pay for. I've heard people say the China carbs came way too rich, and I've also read t hey came way too lean. The one my uncle bought about 6 years ago for a 200S worked out of the box pretty well and just needed minor adjustments to dial in.

    For the spark advancer, there's a pickup coil that Honda called a pulse generator. That device tells the CDI when to fire the engine. The advancer part of it has the chunk of steel in it that the pulse generator senses, and it has weights that fly open as the rpm increases, which advances the timing. If the springs are weak or missing, ignition timing will advance too fast, if it's rusted/stuck it likely will be set at the base timing and you won't get any advancement out of it.

    Here's a diagram of it. Part #3 has the springs, the springs were not sold separately on that model, but based on the same idea/logic/engine design, a more modern version of the engine has them sold separately.

    https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/ho...ulse-generator

    Here's kind of an unrelated video, but he shows how the spark advancer should move. Also wouldn't hurt to check your ignition timing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHeIXalJ9N8

    For the most part, the ignition coils generally don't fail, but it's always possible. Weak spark, incorrect pulse generator gap, ignition timing, carb tuning can all make kind of similar issues, kind of have to run though them one by one to fix the issue. My wild guess would be carb tuning, then ignition timing. The engine doesn't have a heavy tick noise when running does it? The timing chain could be loose and jumped timing, a worn out timing chain makes kind of a tick/metal taping noise.

    Here's a video a bit about timing, it's good to help show the parts, but follow the service manual because he doesn't seem to know a whole lot about what he's talking about. The small section of the video I watched he called the pulse generator a CDI lol.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx6I3V5qXmw

    At about 6:08 he shows the mechanical advancement part and you can see his springs are junk and it seems it was damaged quite a bit. The whole assembly is sold yet from Honda, here's the part number/image for reference.

    https://www.partzilla.com/product/ho...d3964e90cfa28b


    One of the parts on your list I can help with though, I make the main harnesses =). Probably won't help too much with this situation unless it's somehow a poor connection causing the issue.

  8. #83
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Canada
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    The engine sounds healthy, like no out of ordinary chain sounds or valve sounds. Now the bike is Loud of course cause i am waiting on the new muffler in the mail still. Yes, I intend on getting one of your harness' lol. Its a cool little bike, this one is going to be the one I use most frequently as the other one the 200m is in great shape, and im trying to keep it that way! I'll check out the links posted. And shoot over a video of the bike when I get it running tomorrow. Yes, I bought one of those china carbs after watching a youtube video saying that they can last a few years. I figured i'd keep it on hand as a spare ready to go. I like having new parts on hand. The other day, I had a wheel bearing go out in the truck, I had one in the garage ready to bolt in haha. Mechanic at heart.I know this bike definitely will need a new harness.I am looking forward to having a few new parts on it, that way I can be more certain of less break downs.

    Also these three wheelers are funny, I tried to get up over a half steep bank earlier. I got stuck the first time, then the bike rolled backwards down the hill. Tried with more throttle the second time and it wheelied up the bank! haha... The new chain I got on is loose already as well, So I guess time to remove a link. It seems to have broken in /stretched quickly/

  9. #84
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    Apr 2012
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    Ahh yea, running with just an open header it's going to run like crap unless the carb was retuned for it. I wouldn't worry a ton about it till you get an exhaust on it. Still never hurts to check the mechanical timing and double check the pulse generator/mechanical advancer parts. Pretty easy to get to and is normally clear if it's good or has issues.

    Yep, 3 wheelers can be a blast, a huge perk for them is power to weight ratio is quite high vs a quad, and the weight savings is in the front end, so they tend to wheelie very easy. Once you get a hang of the machine more, leaning forward and such can counter the wheelies some. Like when I drag raced my 350x at trike fest for run, I laid as far forward over the handle bars as I could, and it still wheelied in 1st-3rd gear, but I had really grippy tires too.

    The chain will probably continue to stretch for a while. It's kind of crazy how they break in. Also I think brand makes a huge difference too. Like the one on my 350x is old as hell, rusty as can be, but it hasn't stretched enough to need adjusting in years, granted I haven't rode it *that* much. My 350 warrior on the other hand, it was like every month it needed the chain adjusted, guessing we just were buying junk chains or the sprockets were wearing to the chains a bit too much.

  10. #85
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    May 2019
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    Canada
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    Well I was gonna take a video of the trike running, however it won’t start now. Probably the ignition switch that’s giving me the no start as the headlight isn’t turning on now. I’m going to be getting a new ignition switch. In the mean time for testing, I can just connect the wires together for the “ on “ position right ? Bonus ! Got the new muffler in today so guess what my project is today!
    Additionally it’s quite hilarious the 200e won’t start, I tried my 200m earlier and literally like half a pull and it ran perfect! Fregging e lol
    Some things never go outta style '

  11. #86
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    Apr 2012
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    For ignition, just unplug the ignition switch, it will have spark but no lights. I grabbed up the service manual, if you want lights + electric start to work, you'd connect Red and Yellow/Red together which happens to be the right terminals to just connect together. It's almost like Honda designed it to be easy to remove the ignition switch.

  12. #87
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    May 2019
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    Well I was in looking at the wires. I unplugged the switch and connected the red with yellow wire and not getting any headlight now. The wires are a horrible mess and Iím a bit lost at what to do with it. I think I need to strip the bike down again as the chain is slack, the carb is probably fouled cause my plug is fouled again, and now I have no headlight. Bikes back to being undriveable.
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    Some things never go outta style '

  13. #88
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    Apr 2012
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    Interesting, the red wire should always have battery voltage at it, if not you have a broken wire or blown fuse.

    Man I hate hacked up harnesses, and on top of that you're missing some insulators. That red wire defo needs to be isolated so it can't hit metal/ground/green wire. Same with the black wire since it would kill the engine if it shorted to ground. I also see why your electric start doesn't work, green/red wire is cut in the pic, that's part of the starter circuit.

    You can see the spark plug electrode is wet, likely with gas. The Black soot around it is the sign of being rich. Another possible thing that could be causing the rich condition, does your carb flood if you leave the gas valve on? Until you fix the problem, you could reuse the spark plug until you get the exhaust on and such. I'd think it would go more rich with the exhaust installed though. Anyway, to make the spark plug usable again, set it on a junk of scrap metal and use a portable torch on the electrode. You should see a little bit of yellow flame from the gas burning off. It's a bit of a art but you want to do it long enough to dry it out, but not too long that you over heat the metal. It shouldn't glow at all when you take the torch off. Too much heat will crack the porcelain. Once you think you've fixed the issue, throw a new plug in and see what happens.

    I think I linked this before, but I find myself using my created diagrams more and more lol, need to make more of them. You can see the red wire is always hot and runs though a 7 amp fuse. Pretty sure you should be able to follow the battery cable and where it splits off is where the fuse is at.

    http://atvmanual.com/honda/81-atc200...-start-diagram

  14. #89
    Join Date
    May 2019
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    Yea you’re right the fuse is probably blown. Yeah a lot of the connections were taped together. Bit bummed out, I thought it was a good thing buying the bike off a older man, but it seems like when things broke he just ran another wire rather then fix it properly. And yes the green w/ red wire for the starter push button is not connected. When I was troubleshooting it originally I found that there was continuity from behind the headlight down to the solenoid. The wire is broken somewhere internally otherwise I should have got a beep. I’m quite discouraged with it currently. I head out for my work term in a few days so project will have to sit for now. Literally my plan with the bike now is get one of your reproduction harnesses that way I can ensure everything’s together the way it should be. And then I’m installing a new ignition switch,ignition coil,the new carb, new muffler and then go from there.
    Some things never go outta style '

  15. #90
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    Apr 2012
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    Just wondering, which ignition switch did you buy (did you buy one already?). I mod Chinese switches for the application, I charge for my time but still reasonable priced part. I haven't dug into it much, but I could also source a Honda made ignition switch and match the wiring up for your machine as well, just would be a higher cost since the source part is more.

    Sounds like I need to start working on a 83 200e harness lol.

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