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Thread: Stator Rewinding Questions, maybe a New Service I'll Offer.

  1. #1
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    Stator Rewinding Questions, maybe a New Service I'll Offer.

    Been wanting to expand my business a bit, and stator keeps coming to mind. I looked up the rewinding process and yea I can do that stuff.

    Anyway, onto the questions I have. The stator rewind wire is simple electric motor wire, not hard to source, however, the lead wires from the stator to the connectors that hook to the main harness I'm unsure of what grade of wire that is. I use GXL for my harnesses which is pretty high temp (125C) and oil resistant and such, but the OEM stuff has a fiberglass braid over it. I've found SF2 and SFF2 wire which seems similar, but I don't see where it's oil resistant and such. Any idea what grade of wire that is, or something suitable?

    My other question is about the grommets, any place to get them new? If not, then this kind of forces me to jump into the plastic pour molding to make copies.


    Besides that, I'm good on the winding process, directions, soldering, coating the finished product, crimping new connectors on the lead wires, etc.

    I guess it's worth saying if you have junk stators, I'll take them. Preference is to know what they are from but not really super required once I build up a database of documentation of specs etc.

    For now, I'm just looking to do straight OEM rewinding, but making higher output, or higher voltage should be a thing I can handle in time after I build up the experience.

  2. #2
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    While I'm on subjects of stators here, are there any stators that are known to burn out, or hard to find? Clearly I should start with a model I have on hand, but I have ideas on how to make them new from scratch. Figure the first model I make should be something that's at least desirable. I keep thinking of a 12v ATC70 stator, but that kind of pushes me out of the OEM/stock setup lol.

    Also would there be an interest in "race" stators? Basically a stator with only the exciter coil, and the rest of it as light as possible. Maybe if a known smaller sized flywheel fits the crank, I could make a smaller stator for it. I suspect I could up the raw amps and voltage of the exciter for true race machines (hottest spark possible), but I'd have to research what the upper limits would be and if it would even make a real difference, I'd assume so though.

  3. #3
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    I've rewound stators for my own machines, Tecates and 250R. You really have to know what you are doing and it can be a process of trial and error. For example, the first time I rewound my Tecate stator I wound it the wrong direction (which changes the N-S polarity) and got massive kick back, so much that I actually broke the kick start lever. It is hard to determine how they are wound because the wire is so thin and it's encased in epoxy. Anyway, I finally got the technique down and wound a super coil that throws lightening bolts. You also have to worry about clearance issues. If you wind the coil too fat it can rub against the crank or the magnets. You also have to consider the capacity of the cdi. You don't want to burn it out with too much voltage. Finally, winding can be extremely tedious. I was shooting for 220 ohms in my Tecate stator and it took about 1 1/2 to wind using 34 gauge wire. Just offering a few thoughts before you take this on, especially if you're going to offer it as a service.

  4. #4
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    Here was my experience on rewinding an 86 125M stator, as it was impossible to purchase a used one. Every time I had one tracked down, someone would sell the entire machine or the entire engine. It was a fun project though and our local electric motor repair shop had the wire on hand.

    http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthr...Stator-Rebuild

  5. #5
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    Thanks for popping in. Yea the rewinding process is a bit mind numbing, but I don't think it will be too bad, I'm the kind of person that can keep my mind busy while doing something simple like winding a coil. I do it all the time when I'm tearing apart ignition switches to polish and lube the contacts.

    I suspect clearance and such won't be a concern when sticking to the OEM winding which is why I want to get that experience first. Over winding I'd probably need a machine to test fit on or at least the stator cover. Maybe having a crank half, crank, and stator cover for desirable machines wouldn't hurt if I get into that lol.

    I have super good eyes for up close work, 34 gauge wire is a tiny bit smaller than what I worked with before, I did mod chip installs using 30 gauge wire. The epoxy side of things though could be a pain to deal with. It seems like heat is always epoxy's weakness though, so I'd think baking it to heat it up and soften the epoxy might be enough to discover the winding pattern. There's only a limited number of ways it could be wound. Harder work that other people don't like to do is kind of my thing, I mean really, who likes working with electrical, and here I am making whole harnesses lol.

    Anyway, I'm the tech head kind of person that would build a mysql database to store the stator details as I work with different models. Over time I'd target to buy basically every model of stator from all 3 wheeler models. Eventually I'd hit the TRX market too, assuming I enjoy the mind numbing work lol. Besides that, maybe I could hire some of my family to do some of it under my business, there's plenty of people that need work that I know, so time exchanged for money could be a thing, just hate dealing with the related taxes, probably not as bad as I'm making it out in my head though. I'm just tired of buying parts from misc locations and having no control over anything about them, so I want a product I make from the ground up like the wire harnesses.


    @newby200x

    Thanks for the stator rebuild thread, I'll give it a read. Probably should have searched here more for those kinds of posts, I only hit google and hit a few on other sites.

    As for your situation, I think I could create the core for the stator, might not be a 100% duplicate from the original, but the spacing and number of points and bore and overall size should be basically spot on. Clearly, producing anything it's cheaper (per unit) to make several instead of just 1-2.




    I'm kind of thinking the 350x might be my first machine to target. I've tested the exciter coil on my machine at 80v peak at kick start rpm, basically all newer honda's spec it to be 100v. Service manual specs the alternator at 200w, but there doesn't seem to be that much wire on the stator, seems like quite a lot of room for extra wire too. As for the upper limit, that's a bit of a tricky one, I'd have to research how to find the max voltage of a capacitor and see if I can apply that logic at all to the CDI design. Internally it's basically just a diode and maybe a current limiting resister (protection) before it hits the capacitor (between green and black/red wires on Honda CDI's). If it can be done safely, maybe if/when I build a CDI tester, I could add in a detection for max voltage. All of the write ups I could find about CDI's basically universally used a 400v max capacitor though. If there's a true race CDI out there with a higher voltage cap and such, I could probably rewind to take advantage of it's capabilities.

    Ironically while I was looking up this stator stuff, it kind of dawned on me, I have an old skill saw that's an 8in industrial that needs the fields rewound. Not sure if I'd be able to find that old thing or not.

    I'd think this new product shouldn't take too much room up, the stator blanks might because of so many sizes etc (in time), but I'll deal with that down the road. I have an idea on how to brand the stators too so no one can mistake mine with OEM, or mix it up with someone else's work. My intention is to be reasonable priced, but I have to keep in mind what a fair rate is too. Can't even really talk money at this point until I make a few and get the hang of it.

    Talking about that, I have a 250ES stator, it was soldered to the main harness, need to fix that thing some time, or tear it apart for the core template. I have misc unknown stators from Gabriel too, should be interesting to see how similar a random Yamaha one is to a Honda etc. Pretty sure they are effectively all the same, just sizes etc different.


    Talking about core templates, I kind of need a junk 350x stator now. I'd really hate to tear down a good one. Speak of the devil.... there's one on ebay that has cut wires (used condition).

  6. #6
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    Fixer, I will donate a Honda 200 stator or two should you need to do some experimenting. I have a 200S and a 200ES I could donate to your cause if it helps you. If they die in the process so be it. Gotta crack eggs to make omelettes.
    I was born and raised on Venus & I may be here a while.....

  7. #7
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    I should have spare 200es one. The 200S one would probably be handy though, I have I think an 82 atc185 engine with the stator in it, so it might be the same model as the 200s stator. Yep, assuming it's 82 or newer 185, it's the same as all the 200S ones. I do need them to take apart though to check winding direction, and see how the steel core is constructed. I think that style is pretty common to find on ebay, just they aren't wired up fully. The backing plate they mount on I don't think I'd be able to make.

    Kind of funny having so many machines that I generally have parts from most models that I randomly need =). I don't regret buying the 15+ 3 wheelers and not caring what model, just price xD. Ironically I was going to PM you about what stators you had from the lot of parts you bought lol.

  8. #8
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    Lemme know if you want the 200S.

    If I can ever find the parts I need, a future project I have in mind could really use this when you've mastered it. A higher output alternator would be awesome.
    I was born and raised on Venus & I may be here a while.....

  9. #9
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    Just to keep you grounded, there clearly is upper limits. The 200 style stators are stupid simple though compared to the 350x style. Probably a better place to start lol. From my understanding, larger wire with the same number of wraps gives the same voltage, but more amps, more winds = more voltage. So upping the wire size some would give more output, however there's physical limits too.

    Also, is the 200s a dry stator, or can oil get in there? I know the 200x one has oil path ways in that side of the engine. I think the 350x does too. Anyway, based on OEM specs, probably could get about 70w peak out of the 200 series stators, maybe a tiny bit more if I push the clearances. I didn't pull that number out of my butt either, that's what the 200ES has for rated output. I have a lot to learn on how to estimate max output and such, but the winding process shouldn't be too hard to learn =). All reality, I wouldn't be surprised if the 200ES stator would work on other 200 series engines. They are all the same basic design, just the flywheel might be a different size, not sure.

    I think you'll be my first customer though Gabriel, since the 200 series *should* be nice and simple. Grommets are a bit of a hickup for me, and the wire seems to be all over the place. Older ones seem to be fiberglass braid coated, but I looked at a 250es one, and it looks like just the same basic wire I use. Maybe it's silicone insulated since it is kind of soft feeling.

  10. #10
    BarnBoy is offline Just Too Addicted Arm chair racerJust too addicted
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps2fixer View Post
    Just to keep you grounded, there clearly is upper limits. The 200 style stators are stupid simple though compared to the 350x style. Probably a better place to start lol. From my understanding, larger wire with the same number of wraps gives the same voltage, but more amps, more winds = more voltage. So upping the wire size some would give more output, however there's physical limits too.

    Also, is the 200s a dry stator, or can oil get in there? I know the 200x one has oil path ways in that side of the engine. I think the 350x does too. Anyway, based on OEM specs, probably could get about 70w peak out of the 200 series stators, maybe a tiny bit more if I push the clearances. I didn't pull that number out of my butt either, that's what the 200ES has for rated output. I have a lot to learn on how to estimate max output and such, but the winding process shouldn't be too hard to learn =). All reality, I wouldn't be surprised if the 200ES stator would work on other 200 series engines. They are all the same basic design, just the flywheel might be a different size, not sure.

    I think you'll be my first customer though Gabriel, since the 200 series *should* be nice and simple. Grommets are a bit of a hickup for me, and the wire seems to be all over the place. Older ones seem to be fiberglass braid coated, but I looked at a 250es one, and it looks like just the same basic wire I use. Maybe it's silicone insulated since it is kind of soft feeling.
    200S and all pull start 200's are dry stator behind flywheel. Electric start 200's (200M,E,ES are wet stators as they run in oil. The 200M, E, or ES stators are not compatible with any other pull start 200, but should swap between each other fine. I don't know about the 200X, but I think it would be the same as the pull start 200's.
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  11. #11
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    Thanks for the info, I'm pretty positive the 200x I had the swap the stator on had the bottom of the case open so oil got in the other cases, not submerged, just possible oil could get on the wires etc. I could be wrong though, I only did it once and ended up not a huge fan of the machine, nice riding, but needed more power, maybe I just rode 4 machines that were all worn out though (I'm spoiled with the 350x lol).

  12. #12
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    Scootertrash is offline Just Too Addicted: Protecting Our Community The day begins with 3WW
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    Great idea! keep this thread updated....
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps2fixer View Post

    I'm kind of thinking the 350x might be my first machine to target. .


    Check your PM box. I think I found you one to vivesect.
    I was born and raised on Venus & I may be here a while.....

  15. #15
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    Pretty sure the stator is a 86-87 ATC200X stator, similar breed of 3 wheeler, but not a 350x lol. Still would be useful to have on hand though. If/when you send it, throw in the 200cc style stator too for the rewind/higher output project. I'll just be rewinding the same core and I can measure what size of wire and such yours has and a few around my yard to get an idea what size of wire I need to order.



    Update for this project, doing some research I think I found the right type of wire. The new stuff just uses a cheaper style of the same wire I was looking at. The soft smooth wire must be silicone insulated, the fiberglass braid stuff is the same wire except it has the fiberglass braid to add mechanical protection (pinches, cuts etc). I think I'll make all lead wires from the fiberglass braid style due to it's better overall specs for the application. Only down side is that the stuff is pretty expensive, about $1/ft with shipping and such at low qty orders. My normal wire runs around $0.15-0.20/ft to compare, but I order 1000ft at a time.

    All I should need now to rewrap existing stators is the actual coil wire, and figure out which epoxy to use to secure the coils well so they last.

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