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Thread: 85 250es starter motor starts spinning on its own !

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    85 250es starter motor starts spinning on its own !

    update.....needles to say my day of riding was over. Almost has to be the solenoid...doesnt it? Would a bad starter motor do this? I suck at elec. but getting better..lol. Anyone else have this happen? Ive done a search one here already. The bike was sitting for like 15 years prior to this if that helps.
    Upon testing with probe i find i have power to solenoid,...power to tiny wire next to pos. on solenoid,...i have power to other tiny wire next to ground on solenoid (when start button is depressed) BUT...i have no power to heavy grd. wire from solenoid to starter (when start button is depressed or otherwise)...whereas , before, when starter was turning over continuously (in forest), there was pos. to starter obviously as it kept spinning over nonstop.....something has changed since the breakdown. like i say...has to almost be solenoid...doesnt it?
    Last edited by roonie; 06-30-2019 at 12:27 PM.

  2. #2
    mollie8000's Avatar
    mollie8000 is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerFirst time rider
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    neutral safety switch provides ground on small control wire
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  3. #3
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    I don't do well with the has power or don't have power, too many factors on how it could be hooked up. Do you have a multi meter to do Ohm based tests?

    Really simple to test the starter solenoid, disconnect it from the machine, and test between the two big lugs. Should be no connection. Providing 12v power to the small wires makes it kick and the two big lugs should test as a short. I'm kind of guessing the solenoid is stuck "on" like from rust or something.

    I highly doubt the solenoid is getting power and ground to kick off since it has the neutral safety to go though for ground, and the electric starter button has to be pressed for the electric start to fire off. I guess if the machine is in neutral with the key on, the starter switch wires could be bad and shorted, or the return spring for the button rusted away.

    Starter button is tested the same way as the solenoid, disconnect and pretty sure it's green/red wires. Test between the two, and shouldn't have any connection, and when you press it in it shorts out.

    Hopefully this is helpful for you to troubleshoot the issue, let us know what you find. It is a pretty unique issue. Starter motor has nothing to do with it, it more or less works or don't work.

  4. #4
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    Saskatchewan,Canada
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    pretty sure the solenoid is/was stuck. I removed the starter and tested it on the bench...spins real nice with no signs of drag. I put starter motor back in and she tries to spin but slow so i think the reason NOW is the batt. is low from the fact that it spun for soooo long in the forest as i tried to find my monkey wrench and disconnect power to starter....so i now have the batt. on charge..(although it was a brand new batt.)...since removal of starter i have the clicking back on the solenoid which i didnt have this morning when i started looking over the issue.I have no Nuetral light (bulb tests good)
    Thinking i may pull the solenoid and try removing it from its metal case and try spraying some elec cleaner or at the very least have a look at its guts inside. She sat for many yrs. and our winters are a lot of up and down temps here in Sask. Canada...keep ya posted after batt. charges up

  5. #5
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    You can get a Honda starter solenoid for about $25 or so, you just have to match up the wiring to your machine, I could mod it or make pig tails if needed.

    The part isn't considered serviceable, not sure if you'd be able to get it back together after you pull the metal cover off. It it has poor contacts inside, then that could make the starter go slow too, but if it was cranking for a while, then low battery makes sense, it only stores so much energy new or not. FYI, charge it slow, 2amp max I'd say. If you can do 0.5-1amp that's more ideal for the small atv batteries. Being discharged, sitting (self discharge and not being charged back up), general age, and harsh charge cycles is what kills this type of battery. Generally they are pretty robust though.

    Here's an example of the starter solenoid I'm talking about. Wire might be a bit short though.

    https://www.partzilla.com/product/ho...9ec515be111708

    Another that looks effectively the same.

    https://www.partzilla.com/product/ho...414f8e1e5d7d9e

    Cheapest one so far

    https://www.partzilla.com/product/ho...1819dfe81c5507

    All of them are for 400cc+ engines, so clearly rated for enough power for your 250cc engine's starter =). Let me know if you want me to mod one for the 250es, I'm thinking I should probably start doing that to make them more available.


    Also, if you want to spend the bigger money, the OEM part is still listed as well. https://www.partzilla.com/product/ho...53355cfe0d19a9

  6. #6
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    update and still fighting..lol
    so i ended up pulling the solenoid apart..looks fine and that was confirmed by me pulling an exact same yr.etc solenoid from my other machine..nada..starter still spinning on its own. along with this update is also a new set of brushes in the starter motor as once i pulled the starter apart i realize the brushes are toast..so new starter is spinning great...for the life of me i cant believe this starter spun with one less brush ..but it did.
    fast forward to last night and today...last night i pull the starter apart thinking maybe i forgot something or something was making contact inside...its fine so i install onto bike last night and retry the post onto starter...same..starter spinning on its own..with or without key on..in any gear!
    I swap cdi this morning from other 250 es...nothing..same..starter spinning on its own.
    as stated..i also swapped solenoid...same..starter spinning on its own..with or without key on..in any gear.
    so now i ask...how does one test the neutral switch? I could also swap it out from other machine but if it is in fact the neutral switch or..it could also be the mechanism behind the neutral switch not making contact. A sidenote..the neutral switch light along with the reverse light never has worked on dash...i assumed it was a bad bulb but later found the one wire on the reverse dash light was broke off...since been fixed.

  7. #7
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    Neutral switch I'd think normally fails open (no connection). I think someone did some harness hack job or something because the starter solenoid must be getting power when it shouldn't. All the parts related to that are just basic switches, they short to help complete the circuit, so if one goes bad, it still takes all other switches being close to make the starter run, assuming the part failed as a short.

    I suspect as soon as you hook up the battery, the solenoid clicks on no matter what else is going on right? That machine sure has been cobbled together with a lot of weird stuff going on. Once you get it all up to par should still be a nice machine though =).

    Here's a diagram that shows just the starting system. I highlighted in red the power wires, and in green the ground wires. As you can see for exampe, the neutral light always has power going to it when the ignition switch is on, but only gets grounded when the neutral switch is shorted. In the OEM wiring, I can't think of any way possible that all switches would be shorted out always unless someone ran their own power wire or something like that. Even then, the ground for the solenoid normally runs though the neutral safety switch, so it seems like that was bypassed too.


  8. #8
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    If you unplug the starter relay does it still keep trying to spin ?
    Leaving the two large hot wires connected to the top of the relay .

    The starter button is a break in the ground side of the relay and the hot side should always be hot when the ignition switch is on .

    The neutral safety wire is connected to the right side of the motor just below the foot brake . It can be tested with an ohm meter .
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  9. #9
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    FYI Shortline, I think you're thinking of the 200ES for the starter switch, the 250ES it's on the hot side, I just double checked the main 250es wire diagram to make sure the simplified diagram wasn't wrong.

  10. #10
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    Saskatchewan,Canada
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    thanks guys for the replies...
    another update...
    i swap neutral switches...same..
    i look inside the neutral switch hole...both machines look identical in that the high spot is making contact with the neutral switch
    i take my tester, which is a tester that only works on some settings...i test continuity on selenoid...i test two LARGE BATT selenoid wires to starter wire and i get a beep on both 250es machines... BUT...when i test the two smaller wires on selenoids to starter wire i get beep on BAD machine but NO beep on GOOD 250es machine on the small selenoid wires. Keep in mind i already swapped selenoids from good machine..so its not the selenoid itself. so while i have found the issue i still need to search and find out why i keep getting a beep on the small selenoid wires on the bad machine....man oh man! getting closer though...my wife thinks ive got a girlfriend in the garage cause i spent the last two nights till midnight...lol. I dont have my probe/light tester as my father borrowed it yesterday for his boat trailer lights
    Last edited by roonie; 06-11-2019 at 06:51 PM.

  11. #11
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    update

    i have confirmed my issue. It was in fact the solenoid. The reason it took so long to diagnose was due to the fact that this full on 12v to the starter motor would only happen with the solenoid in its holder. The second the solenoid was removed from the holder, everything began to work as it should. I only stumbled upon this by error when removing the solenoid from its holder for better testing access. I suspect the bottom half of the selonoid is shot as i had the solenoid apart to clean it up. Thanks to all that pitched in help. A very rare oddity to have a solenoid act like this i would think.

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