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Thread: possibly 85 200x

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    2881 macedon center road lot 95
    --
    8

    possibly 85 200x

    so folks, im very new to this site....I just registered last night to be exact. so to my questions to whom it may concern or could help me out.
    I made a deal with a kid a week ago to swap with a guy for a 200x knowing It needed a top end rebuild and some minor other things. how ever I didn't know they cut wires from the stator, the ignition coil and the injector oil reservoir, the splines on the shift shaft are toast and i got 2 boxes, one containing everything to do with the crank, bearings and other odds and ends. the other box contains parts for motor mount bolts, chain cover guard that fits over the front sprocket and such. i have to piece this whole thing back together from the ground up but want to do it the right way. what can you folks tell me would be the best place to start and best places to search for said parts im going to be needing for this long job ahead of me. thank you in advance and i appreciate all your help and incite. p.s. my location is near Rochester ny if that helps with anyone who may be closer to my area that may know someone.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Edmond, KS
    --
    1,640
    Member ps2fixer makes new wiring harnesses if you decide that may be an easier way to go. They don't make a kit for doing the top end, so you'll have to buy the parts separately (except for the gaskets). My first recommendation would be to buy or download a service manual before diving into this project. If you can't tell the size of the piston from numbers that may be on the top of it, you'll have to take the cylinder to a machine shop and have them measure the bore. I only use Wiseco pistons. I know that you can buy a "new" cylinder and piston on Ebay for not much money (at least for some applications), but I don't think that I'd risk it. You can't be sure of the quality. The same goes for the carb. You can find some for about $20, but the quality is hit and miss at best. Some people say that they have good luck with them, some have to fiddle with it for a while and then can get it to run, others say that they never could make them run right and just throw them away and go back to OEM. I'll NEVER use one of those cheap carbs unless I just don't have a choice.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    2881 macedon center road lot 95
    --
    8
    ahhh okay, if need be i may rach out to him for said parts but for now im going to be tracing the steps and finding exactly where the wires go and come from and see if i cant get those fixed or just buy all new and go with everything new so theres no room for error. yeah i was afraid i would have to go that route and buy all separate pieces for the top end :/ im a full blown 2 stroke guy, never had a 4 stroke so im standing in uncharted territory so to speak anyways when it comes to 4 strokes. i did some looking and got the service manual saved as a df: file on the laptop to reference as i begin. how ever my problem as far as finding out the year, the farther ive dug into this and th emore ive searched...i cant find any numbers on this machine except under where the front sprocket is which is a "446" and that's all i can find. and for buying knock offs, no i don't have a great deal of money but im going to be doing this the right way so if it takes me till next year to do the job correctly, ill be spending my money on as much OEM parts as i can find and sticking as possible to stock as i can.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    My underwater lair
    --
    4,090
    Look on the front neck. Honda liked to stamp their frame numbers shallow and then fill them with as much paint as possible until the number is obscured and difficult to read.

    Im pretty sure that, like the 250R, you can figure out what year you have by the serial numbers on the left side engine case near where the shift lever or the oil filter comes out of the case (it's low and half-hidden on the left case side)

    I've built four of these and they are brutally simple. Parts are plentiful and cheap. I used a combination of my downloaded OEM manual and the exploded schematics on an OEM parts supplier website like Babbitts, Honda of Troy, etc. I've found that this is an excellent resource for seeing which parts go where and if I'm missing something, which is all too common for me.

    Post some pics

    Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    MI, USA
    --
    3,421
    Try my VIN & Engine Serial decoder below. You should only need the first 10 characters of the vin, or about 7 of the engine serial. If your VIN starts with JH3, type it as JH1, that's a bug I have to fix with the detection.

    http://atvmanual.com/honda/79-atc-atv-vin-decoder

    The more techy way of doing it manually. VIN should start with JH1 or JH3 followed by TB052 to signal an ATC200X, 10th digit is the year code as follows:

    D = 1983
    E = 1984
    F = 1985
    H = 1986
    J = 1987
    Engines are swapped around fairly often too, so here's the manual process on that.

    The start of the Engine serial should be just like the VIN above, TB05E is a 200 series engine (200x, 200s, 200m, 200es etc), the start of the numbers is what dictates which model/year it is.

    TB05E-60 = 1983 ATC200X (also same for ATC200ES from my notes)
    TB05E-61 = 1984
    TB05E-62 = 1985
    TB05E-63 = 1986 (2nd gen)
    TB05E-84 = 1987

    If for some reason both numbers are unreadable, another way I now of to identify the machine is by the wire harness. See my thread below.

    http://3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/187317


    Also, as the first reply said, I make completely new harnesses, and could make pig tails to repair the components that has cut wiring. The catcher is if it's an 84-85, the CDI connector is out of production, so I'd either need your old connector, or would have to charge a core charge of $25 extra so I can buy a harness with the connector.

    Not sure what your plans are with the machine, since you come from the 2 stroke world, do you plan to turn it into more of a racer, like no lights needed etc? I make race harnesses too and they are a bit cheaper. I try not to advertise too hard core, but probably should make a thread/page detailing what all goes into my harnesses, it isn't just cheap wire slapped together, it's good quality high temp wire, infact the wiring is rated higher than the tubing (125C vs 105C). Generic wiring is rated around 60-80C. I use Japanese branded terminals when possible, and most are same/similar brands as OEM, like AMP/TE.

    Hopefully this is useful for you. For the parts with cut wiring, post some photos of the damage and I can probably help pin point what goes where. The min needed to make the engine run is the stator connections (minus the yellow wire), the CDI, pluse generator (also called a pickup coil, it's in the head and runs off the end of the cam under the cover that says "CDI"), and of course the ignition coil. Voltage regulator, lights etc aren't needed and are completely separate circuit. I'd be in support of getting the engine in a state of running so you know what you have and figure out how much you'd be willing to spend on fixing it up.

    Good luck with the machine, for a 4 stroke, these are fairly simple machines. Since it's all in pieces, maybe snap some photos of the head/valves, the cam, etc. We can't exactly measure the parts to see if they are in spec, but never know when you have an aftermarket cam etc. You could DIY rebuild the head with the service manual as a guide, or pay for a professional to do it, or if it looks ok, risk assembling it and not know how good/bad it really is. I've ran into this kind of stuff so often, you buy something, person says x thing is wrong with it and when you diag the problem, it's something completely separate so you have to undo all the stuff they did and fix the real issue. Cutting wires suggests to me either they were trying to make a race machine (no lighting wiring), or they have no clue what they are doing as there isn't many reasons to cut wiring, everything disconnects at some point.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    2881 macedon center road lot 95
    --
    8
    well to all you nice folks out their.....I couldn't find a year on this machine because well.....the numbers have been ground off. not by the guy I got it from, I say with 100% faith he didn't do it because (nothing against him) but at my guess of age 14-16, he had no idea what or how to get rid of all those numbers nor would have painted the frame cause that paint has been on their for quite some years by the look, faded and sun stained. only reason I found out the year was because of the square swingarm frame. the frame is tubular and the swingarm is the square style with the blue seat, white fenders. oh and also the fenders were repainted black...... as of now my plans for this machine have changed and i need some time to think this thing over.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    MI, USA
    --
    3,421
    Check the CDI connector on the harness. Either it's 2 connections, a 3 pin and 4 pin (only 6 wires used), or it's a round 6 pin connector. 2nd gen used a 2 & 4 pin connector, but I'm assuming it's not an 86-87 machine.

    Square 3+4 pin connectors = 1983
    Round = 1984-1985, both years used the same harness
    Rounded off square 4+2 connectors = 86-87, 87 can be identified by the extra wiring for an ignition switch.

    I don't know other ways to identify the exact year, but maybe someone else knows a simple check on the frame or something to identify them apart. Also, the CDI should be located around the bottom of the gas tank, or under the seat.
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    Last edited by ps2fixer; 07-10-2019 at 08:15 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    2881 macedon center road lot 95
    --
    8
    I will post some pics of everything tomorrow for you all to see

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    2881 macedon center road lot 95
    --
    8
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    MI, USA
    --
    3,421
    Yep, if that's the correct CDI for the frame, it's an 84-85. Looks like you scored solid fenders with it too, the two machines I had both had a corner missing.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    2881 macedon center road lot 95
    --
    8
    I deff scored good fenders. None of them have cracks or any blemishes that i can see. Except putting black spray paint on them of course

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