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Thread: Ignition switch need help

  1. #16
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    Yea get the recoil fixed up, it doesn't directly have an effect on the spark, bug there is a min speed the engine has to turn to get spark.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps2fixer View Post
    Yea get the recoil fixed up, it doesn't directly have an effect on the spark, bug there is a min speed the engine has to turn to get spark.
    Hi, I tested several items and possibly have more then one issue.Here are the readings as follows:
    Ignition switch good
    Engine stop switch good
    Neutral has good continuity in neutral

    Alternator
    Red black wire to ground 196 ohms. AC voltage produced varies from 25 volts up to 30's AC

    Pulse Generator
    Green to ground showing no connection or OL on my meter
    Blue yellow across green wire 27 ohms

    New ignition coil checks out
    0.4 ohms on terminal
    2k ohm across secondary

    Old ignition coil seems faulty
    Variable ohms across terminal 0.8 ohm to 10 Mohm
    Across secondary 8.2k ohm

    Noticed a few issues and possible issue.
    On pulse generator green wiring seems frayed or week at the bullet connector coming out of the generator/ pulser.
    Upon removing the cover, quickly noticed it is very dirty with rust.
    I'm able to move the rotating part but it makes a audible rattle sound.
    The pickup coil looks very rusted off.. ( i was going to check the gap ).
    Can i buy a aftermarket one of these new?
    Also how can i make all connections watertight
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  3. #18
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    FYI, reading voltage off the exciter coil isn't possible with a standard meter, there's an adapter called a peak voltage tester that will let you know the max voltage it sees. Typical spec is around 100v, AC readings are in RMS and the frequency and voltage changes with engine rpm. 196ohms should be within spec though.

    Pulse generator green wire not connecting to ground depends where you tested it, on the engine side that's normal, the coil shows as isolated and it grounds through the harness (japanese typical design, dedicated grounds to sensors and such, american design typically grounds through the mounting bolts atleast for older stuff).

    Secondary coil in the ignition coil seems a bit low, service manual I'm looking at says the spec is 3.6-4.4k ohms with spark plug cap removed.


    Old ignition coil sounds like you had a poor connection when reading the primary, possible it could be a bad coil wire where it gets connection and a slight movement and it looses connection. Generally speaking the coils either read dead short, open circuit, or very high ohms and doesn't fluctuate. 10M ohms could just be the meter reading your skin resistance. On my skin today, my meter reads 0.4M ohms lol.

    Looks like your pulse generator springs rusted apart. It basically works with 2 weights that the springs pull in, and at high rpm they swing out. When the weights move, it changes the location of the magnet on the rotor in relation to the cam (mechanical advancement for ignition spark). VVTi systems work similar on modern engines but they adjust the cam vs timing belt relation for mechanical engine timing on top of the ignition timing effects.

    Here are the correct springs assuming the rest of the rotor is fine.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/201737940132

    For the black box where the wires comes out, that's the actual pickup coil. The iron core can be magnetized a bit and pick up metal chunks from the springs and such and really mess up the signal, so I'd wiped it off and get as much as you can off it, set the gap, and see if you get any signs of spark. Doesn't matter if the springs are there or not, it should still spark just won't be at the right time.

    Depending how much you're willing to spend, you can buy the whole assembly from Honda yet, I'm not aware of any aftermarket options, just used or new OEM.

    https://www.partzilla.com/product/ho...d3964e90cfa28b

    That part is #3 in this diagram which includes the rotor, springs, mounting bolt and washer. It does not include the pickup coil though and that part is out of production. I've been wanting to sample some other options from newer engines, but haven't had a chance to try them. The XL series engines kept the same design of engine for quite a while, that's where the springs above are source from you can't directly buy the springs from honda per the 200es model since it was sold as a whole unit only.

    https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/ho...ulse-generator

    Anyway, the test you did shows electronically the pickup coil should be good, so gapped and being cleaned might make it spark. Wiring could be repaired with a pig tail, depending where the damage is and such (I can make them for nearly any connector on the 3 wheelers).




    Making the connectors water tight would effectively require a whole harness to be made and all supporting electronics getting the OEM terminals cut off and replaced with a sealed connector. I could do it but it would be fairly expensive. The next best option is dielectric silicone, it's a plastic and rubber safe grease that makes connections water resistant while lubricating the connection and being a form of anti corrosive. Only down side is that it's a bit of a mess to work with later down the road and the fact dust/dirt will collect on any exposed areas. Also since it's not truely water proofing it, reapplication could be required if you ride in mud/water often, but under normal cases it should last a long time.


    So far it's looking like ignition coil could be the issue, but it's kind of near the okish range for a cheap coil, assuming it's a china made generic coil. Generally speaking buying used OEM would be better than new chinese assuming the used one works. Also honda lists the coil new still for your machine, so you could get a proper OEM one and know you have the right part.

    https://www.partzilla.com/product/ho...49546677d3b089

    If you replace the ignition coil, it wouldn't hurt to also get a new spark plug cap.

    https://www.partzilla.com/product/ho...49546677d3b089

    Besides that, you have the pickup coil thing going on, and possible wire connection issues (the fraying on the wire you mentioned).


    What I'd do personally is clean, gap, and do what you can with the pulse generator to get it as good as you can with out buying parts yet and test for spark. If no spark, then repeat the ohm tests you did before, but directly at the CDI connector. This will tell us if from the CDI to the parts is good. If suddenly it's a bit higher ohms it could be a poor connection, or no connection could be a broken wire or a corroded terminal. Sadly there isn't a great way to test the CDI box, so it's either swap with a known working unit, or try another used OEM unit (hopefully working) to validate if that's a problem or not, but it's normally a last case to replace.

    Also FYI, the pulse generator with no springs typically do rattle. I've always worked with used ones though, never had a new one in hand so not sure how much rattle/free play is from design vs wear. I haven't ran into one yet that was worn out. I've seen the springs rusted/broken and ones that were rusted up where they didn't move freely.

    Few possible sources of the no spark and a semi related issue (the springs), so far not too bad since for the most part things are making sense electrically to me =). Hopefully you can see some spark after cleaning up the pickup coil and just need the springs to bring it back to life. For the most part it seems the wiring fails before the electronics do on these things, but then again most electrical issues I've seen also was paired up with someone rigging up the harness and such.

    Good luck with the diag work, atleast you are coming across things that might make an effect.

  4. #19
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    Hi, thank you for the highly informative response. I did as you mentioned, cleaned up the pick up coil and cleaned up the pulse generator. Scrapped the sensor with a blade a little bit as well. I lost one or the screws that holds the sensor on, fell somewhere. I’ll have to get another one of those. However I set the gap to somewhere in the middle for the spec, 0.018 I think I settled on. I tested the spark again after this. And I now have spark!
    Few observations, one spring is missing off the mechanical advance. It only has one spring on it. So I need to buy the springs you linked and also need to get another one of those tiny screws I lost for the sensor.
    Next project is cleaning the carb and using the di electric grease on all connections and then slowly reassemble everything!
    Also simple question but I’m curious through troubleshooting the wire harness, this 3 wheeler has the extra yellow with red for what’s suppose to be a neutral light. Can I just get any small led light and hook it up to this lead and then have a functional neutral light on the 200 big red?

    Also is there anything else you recommend checking?
    Thank you

  5. #20
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    For the screw, nothing is listed even for the newest models before they went away from the pulse generator design on the cam with the mechanical advancer (the "updated" design they moved it to the crank and no advancment, it's 100% in the CDI box). However Honda uses some nice standard part number formats for generic parts like bolts/screws. The trick is you need the sizes in mm.

    On partzilla search the part number, and it will plaster out a ton of options. To get the part number use this format:

    93892-xx0yy

    Where xx is the size around for the threaded part, and the yy part is the size in length. Not sure if length is based on the shank/shaft size of the screw or the overall length though. They are cheap enough you could probably get both, or base the measurement on another bolt to solve the mystery.

    For example, the two screws that holds the pulse generator plate on are 5mm by 12mm long which the OEM part number is 93500-05012-0A. If we use the number above we can get another screw that's the same size. The first number is a part type, so maybe it's because the screw is classified as part of a different assembly or generic use vs specialized section. Here's the completed part number:

    93892-05012

    If you search that on partzilla you see this listing

    https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/93892-05012-00

    Vs OEM

    https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/93500-05012-0A

    And I see why the prefix is different, the one above has a lock washer built into the screw while the other doesn't. I'm pretty sure the screws you need will have the lock washer though, but you could apply the same to the other prefix number (93500).

    Since it's all metric, you could try to screw one of the screws I mentioned into the spot you're missing a screw to see if the size around is the correct size. If it matches you just need to figure out the length difference from the one screw you have yet (guessing like 6-10mm long). If you need under 10, make sure you use like 08 for 8mm since the part numbers require the same number of characters as their standard.

    Same logic can be applied to just about every bolt, nut, washer, etc. Thread pitch I'm not sure if it's related at the end of the part number (00 and 0A), or if it's apart of the prefix number. Finer and coarser thread is generally for special applications like flywheel bolt/nut, or lug nuts so for those kinds of parts probably best to stick with the OEM number.

    Hopefully that made sense, I've done a lot of research on Honda standards and such, but this was just from the top of my mind. This applys to the two number part numbers (5 len - 5 len - nothing or 2 len format). There's a different standard for machine related parts like 90% of the other stuff (5 len - 3 len - 3 len - nothing or 2 len) which the middle (first 3 len) part is to denote that original machine the part was designed for, like the 83 200e parts probably relate to the 82 model for the big red only parts, and another older machine like the 80 atc185 for more generic parts for the platform like related to the engine. This is a way people can research what machines relate together and how.


    Onto the wiring question. Yellow/Red on your machine is "switched power" which means whenever the ignition switch is turned on, that wire has power. It's what feeds the lights and starter system (relay/low power side). If you wanted, you could swap in a dash from another machine with the neutral indicator. The 200ES comes to mind, but it also has reverse. I think the 200m or 84-85 125m had a neutral light but no reverse and the dash should be similar to bolt on. Catcher is the choke cable, have to make sure that exists on the other dash too. For the actual wiring for the neutral light, you'd need an adapter and the light socket from the target machine (or a new one I make). There is an extra connection point on the Yellow/Red wire to give the bulb power, so as long as the sub harness for the dash light has a male terminal for yellow/red or black/brown that should match up well. The other side would go to the neutral safety switch. On your machine it's only used for the starter button as a safety feature (no electric start unless in neutral, but you can pull start in gear no problem). It's pretty easy for me to make a short adapter so there's an extra connection point for the dash light. Here's a screen shot of the wire diagram with my notes on it in red to make it a little easier to follow. The boxy shaped terminals are the bullet female (the yellow/red is a 2x female) and the triangle side is the male. If you look at the green wire, you can see a 3 or 4 way female with the 3 male terminals coming off of it. Wire diagrams communicate a lot of info while trying to not look too complicated =).



    Just to compare, here's the 84 atc125m setup, almost an exact match on the wiring diagram with just a couple of things changed plus the neutral light. I highlighted the connection points in red again. The adapter needed would be a female to two males since your harness currently only has one male terminal. I suspect this is a neat upgrade a lot of people would like to do, maybe I should make an almost complete kit (minus dash).




    FYI, the 85 year is the same setup, just the switched power wire changed to the more modern color combo of black/brown.

    Here's the neutral socket / sub harness I make for the 84 atc125m just to give an idea on price. Also it fits the atc200m, so I guess my memory wasn't too bad earlier when I mentioned that machine.



    FYI, it's best to refer to your machine as a 200E or ATC200E, it tells people exactly what you have. The 200 big red would include the 200ES which is quite a lot different (more complicated plus shaft drive, reverse, a pretty crazy safety system, etc) and also one of the ATC200 models was called a big red on partzilla, but it's not the same at all besides the engine being effectively the same. There's a LOT of 200cc models lol.


    Anyway, for the harness side of things, most critical is the ignition system. Lighting/Charging would be the secondary system that's needed but if it fails worst case you have no lights or a dead battery. Sticking with harnesses, about the only thing you could look for is damaged/pinched wires and seal the insulation where there's any damage (liquid electrical tape works well). The wiring should be flexible and no exposed copper except at the terminal crimps. If it's hard as a rock, the insulation will break, exposing the copper and over time it will either break the wire off, or corrode the copper enough to make it high resistance and eventually fall apart too. Worst case a wire could short out but there is a fuse so the battery can't make the wires red hot. These machines are getting old enough where the wiring is aging and not much can be done about the effects except keeping the machines out of the sun and weather. Being stored inside in a heated space probably gives the best longevity for the whole machine, but that's not always practical (I'm talking 10+ years of owning the machine). Anyway, your machine is quite simple, not a whole lot that can go wrong which is basically true for all 3 wheelers.

    For more generic things to check, fluid levels (engine oil I think is the only fluid I can think of on your machine), grease points, lube the chain, inspect the sprockets for wear, check for gearing slop (front wheel, rear axle, and steering stem). Here's the maintenance schedule for your machine, if you treat it as if everything is expired/time to check you should be golden for typical maintenance. Beyond that it's just looking for odd noises, vibrations while riding, anything that makes you think "what is that" while riding kind of like driving a car until you hear the wheel bearings starting to grumble, or the brakes start to squeak.




    Oh, it's on the list, but be sure to check the oil filter rotor as it says, it's really common on machines I've bought that it's never been cleaned. The service manual will go into the details on how to check everything in their related sections. Good luck and now that you have spark, once you get the springs it should fire up. It's very common to need to clean the carb after a machine sits, so you could be proactive and clean it while waiting on the springs. There's guides all over the web that generically cover how to clean an atv carb. There's a post here that's well detailed, but it's not for this exact model.

    Talking about the carb, the OEM one is marked/stamped with PD55A. If the numbers don't match you could check what machine it's from at the link below. If there's no marks, it could be a China clone carb. Generally it's accepted here that used OEM is better than new Chinese, but either one will likely require work. Used OEM will likely need cleaning, possible new gaskets, clean/replace jets, etc. The Chinese ones generally come tuned incorrectly for your machine, so new (Good) jets and knowing how to tune might be a requirement since you can't just go off OEM specs with their carbs (should be close I'd think though). China carbs use super cheap jets so probably a factor of quality control, or tolerance levels since some people have great results, while others have running issues.


    Anyway, having progress every post is a nice thing, glad things continue to move forward.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps2fixer View Post
    For the screw, nothing is listed even for the newest models before they went away from the pulse generator design on the cam with the mechanical advancer (the "updated" design they moved it to the crank and no advancment, it's 100% in the CDI box). However Honda uses some nice standard part number formats for generic parts like bolts/screws. The trick is you need the sizes in mm.

    On partzilla search the part number, and it will plaster out a ton of options. To get the part number use this format:

    93892-xx0yy

    Where xx is the size around for the threaded part, and the yy part is the size in length. Not sure if length is based on the shank/shaft size of the screw or the overall length though. They are cheap enough you could probably get both, or base the measurement on another bolt to solve the mystery.

    For example, the two screws that holds the pulse generator plate on are 5mm by 12mm long which the OEM part number is 93500-05012-0A. If we use the number above we can get another screw that's the same size. The first number is a part type, so maybe it's because the screw is classified as part of a different assembly or generic use vs specialized section. Here's the completed part number:

    93892-05012

    If you search that on partzilla you see this listing

    https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/93892-05012-00

    Vs OEM

    https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/93500-05012-0A

    And I see why the prefix is different, the one above has a lock washer built into the screw while the other doesn't. I'm pretty sure the screws you need will have the lock washer though, but you could apply the same to the other prefix number (93500).

    Since it's all metric, you could try to screw one of the screws I mentioned into the spot you're missing a screw to see if the size around is the correct size. If it matches you just need to figure out the length difference from the one screw you have yet (guessing like 6-10mm long). If you need under 10, make sure you use like 08 for 8mm since the part numbers require the same number of characters as their standard.

    Same logic can be applied to just about every bolt, nut, washer, etc. Thread pitch I'm not sure if it's related at the end of the part number (00 and 0A), or if it's apart of the prefix number. Finer and coarser thread is generally for special applications like flywheel bolt/nut, or lug nuts so for those kinds of parts probably best to stick with the OEM number.

    Hopefully that made sense, I've done a lot of research on Honda standards and such, but this was just from the top of my mind. This applys to the two number part numbers (5 len - 5 len - nothing or 2 len format). There's a different standard for machine related parts like 90% of the other stuff (5 len - 3 len - 3 len - nothing or 2 len) which the middle (first 3 len) part is to denote that original machine the part was designed for, like the 83 200e parts probably relate to the 82 model for the big red only parts, and another older machine like the 80 atc185 for more generic parts for the platform like related to the engine. This is a way people can research what machines relate together and how.


    Onto the wiring question. Yellow/Red on your machine is "switched power" which means whenever the ignition switch is turned on, that wire has power. It's what feeds the lights and starter system (relay/low power side). If you wanted, you could swap in a dash from another machine with the neutral indicator. The 200ES comes to mind, but it also has reverse. I think the 200m or 84-85 125m had a neutral light but no reverse and the dash should be similar to bolt on. Catcher is the choke cable, have to make sure that exists on the other dash too. For the actual wiring for the neutral light, you'd need an adapter and the light socket from the target machine (or a new one I make). There is an extra connection point on the Yellow/Red wire to give the bulb power, so as long as the sub harness for the dash light has a male terminal for yellow/red or black/brown that should match up well. The other side would go to the neutral safety switch. On your machine it's only used for the starter button as a safety feature (no electric start unless in neutral, but you can pull start in gear no problem). It's pretty easy for me to make a short adapter so there's an extra connection point for the dash light. Here's a screen shot of the wire diagram with my notes on it in red to make it a little easier to follow. The boxy shaped terminals are the bullet female (the yellow/red is a 2x female) and the triangle side is the male. If you look at the green wire, you can see a 3 or 4 way female with the 3 male terminals coming off of it. Wire diagrams communicate a lot of info while trying to not look too complicated =).



    Just to compare, here's the 84 atc125m setup, almost an exact match on the wiring diagram with just a couple of things changed plus the neutral light. I highlighted the connection points in red again. The adapter needed would be a female to two males since your harness currently only has one male terminal. I suspect this is a neat upgrade a lot of people would like to do, maybe I should make an almost complete kit (minus dash).




    FYI, the 85 year is the same setup, just the switched power wire changed to the more modern color combo of black/brown.

    Here's the neutral socket / sub harness I make for the 84 atc125m just to give an idea on price. Also it fits the atc200m, so I guess my memory wasn't too bad earlier when I mentioned that machine.



    FYI, it's best to refer to your machine as a 200E or ATC200E, it tells people exactly what you have. The 200 big red would include the 200ES which is quite a lot different (more complicated plus shaft drive, reverse, a pretty crazy safety system, etc) and also one of the ATC200 models was called a big red on partzilla, but it's not the same at all besides the engine being effectively the same. There's a LOT of 200cc models lol.


    Anyway, for the harness side of things, most critical is the ignition system. Lighting/Charging would be the secondary system that's needed but if it fails worst case you have no lights or a dead battery. Sticking with harnesses, about the only thing you could look for is damaged/pinched wires and seal the insulation where there's any damage (liquid electrical tape works well). The wiring should be flexible and no exposed copper except at the terminal crimps. If it's hard as a rock, the insulation will break, exposing the copper and over time it will either break the wire off, or corrode the copper enough to make it high resistance and eventually fall apart too. Worst case a wire could short out but there is a fuse so the battery can't make the wires red hot. These machines are getting old enough where the wiring is aging and not much can be done about the effects except keeping the machines out of the sun and weather. Being stored inside in a heated space probably gives the best longevity for the whole machine, but that's not always practical (I'm talking 10+ years of owning the machine). Anyway, your machine is quite simple, not a whole lot that can go wrong which is basically true for all 3 wheelers.

    For more generic things to check, fluid levels (engine oil I think is the only fluid I can think of on your machine), grease points, lube the chain, inspect the sprockets for wear, check for gearing slop (front wheel, rear axle, and steering stem). Here's the maintenance schedule for your machine, if you treat it as if everything is expired/time to check you should be golden for typical maintenance. Beyond that it's just looking for odd noises, vibrations while riding, anything that makes you think "what is that" while riding kind of like driving a car until you hear the wheel bearings starting to grumble, or the brakes start to squeak.




    Oh, it's on the list, but be sure to check the oil filter rotor as it says, it's really common on machines I've bought that it's never been cleaned. The service manual will go into the details on how to check everything in their related sections. Good luck and now that you have spark, once you get the springs it should fire up. It's very common to need to clean the carb after a machine sits, so you could be proactive and clean it while waiting on the springs. There's guides all over the web that generically cover how to clean an atv carb. There's a post here that's well detailed, but it's not for this exact model.

    Talking about the carb, the OEM one is marked/stamped with PD55A. If the numbers don't match you could check what machine it's from at the link below. If there's no marks, it could be a China clone carb. Generally it's accepted here that used OEM is better than new Chinese, but either one will likely require work. Used OEM will likely need cleaning, possible new gaskets, clean/replace jets, etc. The Chinese ones generally come tuned incorrectly for your machine, so new (Good) jets and knowing how to tune might be a requirement since you can't just go off OEM specs with their carbs (should be close I'd think though). China carbs use super cheap jets so probably a factor of quality control, or tolerance levels since some people have great results, while others have running issues.


    Anyway, having progress every post is a nice thing, glad things continue to move forward.
    Thanks. I will do as above. With regards to the carb, its still oem. I'm going to take it apart tonight and start cleaning it. I've heard mixed reviews about the china carb. I still am interested in doing a disc brake swap on this machine for simplicity and reliability of a disc brake. I am currently trying to research the best option, it would also be nice to get a set of 26 or 27 inch tires to have this little 3 wheeler a bit aggressive. Its not in very clean shape so this machine i'd like to make it as a trails bike and eventually pick up a nice clean one for groomed trails or easy riding.

  7. #22
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    Since the 200e has low range, the 26in+ tires shouldn't be a problem power wise, worst case might just have to run it in low range more often. I ran 25in tires on my 200es and it went everywhere I wanted it to go. On my 250es I threw on some 25in outlaws (like a tractor tire), but because the tread is so deep, it bottomed out a lot easier like they were 23in. As long as I wasn't dragging bottom too bad, it would make it through anything just putting around. For the 250 I wish they were 26-27in, while the 200es it seemed just fine with 25in. Different weights of machines I guess, since the 250es is quite a bit heavier. Up here in Michigan we get a lot of swamp and mud land and my 250sx does pretty well with 22in stock tires, just can't hit the big deep mud holes.

    Good news is, with a light machine, you can just pick up the back end and scoot it over if you get stuck. Not as easy with a quad. Not sure what your area is like for riding or your riding style, but if you like going faster and blaze down the trails, the 350x, 250sx, 250r, and 200x are all good options. My personal favorite is the 350x, then 250sx, a lot of people like the 2 stroke power so the 250r is a common go to, and the 200x is the 350x's little bother and is much more common to find and normally a lower price too. All of those machines are full suspended and the 200x has effectively the same engine as your 200e with out the transfer case, no electric start, and it's higher compression.

    For mud, the 200e should be fine, but it's still a chain drive and chains don't like mud/dirt etc. Shaft drive is normally best, so 200es if you like the hard tail format, or move up to the 250es or 250sx. The smaller lighter machines do really well in mud too, but they are all chain drive. Like a atc90, 110, or 125m would float over the mud easier just from the light machine and big balloon tires. The 250sx is more of a sports version of the 250es (same engine in both), and there's some mods for the 250sx to make it pretty nice, 350x or 200x front end swap, and there's a rear swing arm to give you +3 length to clear 25in+ tires. The 250sx is higher geared for speed, so you could swap some things with the 250es machine to get lower gearing. The 250es engine in the 250sx frame with the 250es rear diff would be the lowest gearing with out doing major mods like primary gear reduction swap from another engine (TRX300 I think).

    Not sure about the facts on disk vs drum being more reliable or less reliable. Mechanical drum brakes are pretty simple, worst thing is the brake arm shaft getting rusty and hard to turn which makes the brakes drag. After a new set of shoes and adjusting the brakes right, I can always lock up the front and rear tires just fine. Only exception to that is a China quad I worked on, mechanical drum brakes in the front, and hydraulic disc in the back. I can pull all I want on the front brakes, but they do almost nothing, but the drums are so tiny, I'm talking like 3in around while the rear disc is like 6-7in. Rear didn't work very well till I hard braked once and it clicked and suddenly the rear brakes worked great. I guess the slide system for the rear caliper was a poor design/copy and didn't move very freely. I think it comes down to proper design over if it's drum vs disc. In race applications, disc hands down, but that's because they cool better.

    I'm not sure off hand how the 200e rear drum brakes are setup, but the 200es rear drums are sealed well for water/mud etc. The 250es/sx I'd say is a design that's less sealed, but they continued using the same basic design for a long time, like my dad's 2003 foreman uses the same basic design for the rear drum sealing system.

    My experience with disc brakes and mud was with a 1999 Yamaha 350 Warrior. The OEM set lasted for a while, once the pads wore out, we tried like 3 or so new sets of pads and they all wore out so fast they'd last a month or less. Not sure if it was just no name china pads, or if the mud/dirt was causing the fast wear (I wasn't the one buying them). I just learned to ride as if the machine had no brakes (engine braking etc) and only used the front brakes when I had to. I use the same riding style on 3 wheelers unless I'm trying to go fast like racing. Brakes last a lot longer, and the deceleration engine braking sucks up oil around the rings, so engine wear shouldn't be a problem. Semi Truckers use a similar tactic with their "Jake Brake" which is basically engine braking + a flap in the exhaust to restrict it more.

  8. #23
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    --
    63
    Is there any wheel adapters available for these machines? Mine has 4x150 hubs I think , and I was thinking about fitting a set of rubicon wheels or even can am wheels as they are easy to find for a good deal, also I might have a line on buying a couple parts bikes.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Edmond, KS
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    2,531
    A quick search didn't turn up anything for me. It may be better to buy some different hubs. Possibly some for a 200X might work. I'm not sure about the spline size/number.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
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    4,114
    For 200e you should be able to find a sports quad rear hubs that will fit. Biggest thing is spline shaft size, and spline count. Another factor is width of the hub that rides on the splines. For the most part, a lot of Honda hubs interchange. I've put ATC90 hubs on a 200ES before. Assuming you want to go to the 4/110 bolt pattern something like a 350x, 250r, 200x rear hub should work. I wish there was better documenting on hubs for machines, but sadly that seems to be somewhat rare to find "real" details on. Defo search around more on hub interchanges to make sure x machine's hub will work on yours, but that's probably the easiest way to convert a bolt pattern.

    Another option is to use a wheel spacer style adapter, but I'm not sure how common they are for atv's, I know they exist in the car/truck world. It requires a bit of a wheel spacer to clear the rim from the hub studs, so probably around 1.5in per side.

    From what I've seen, hub swaps are viewed as a better solution than wheel spacers for getting the axle width you want, so it's probably best to go the hub route if possible. Of course best axle width solution is to get an axle that's the right width, but that's not always an option.

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