Hey guys, I picked up a couple big red 200's today.
This one is making a heck-of-a racket when I engage the starter.
I removed the cover, removed the connecting gears and isolated the starter, it checks out fine.
I pulled the small shaft that has 2 gears and transfers the rotation to the back of the flywheel. it looks fine
no odd wear.
The only thing I see that looks odd i can move the flywheels and the larger gear behind it independent of the drum that is marked for timing.
I feel and see no play in the timing chain, the cdi is all intact, the timing was dead on, to noise sounds low in the motor, but I dont hear any noises when I pull the rope.
Well sounds like you investigated it quite well. Pull start not making the noise but starter does, and starter + gears check out, it must be the one way bearing on the flywheel to the big gear that the starter turns. The related parts are from 3 to 6 in the diagram. I've never had one fail or taken one apart, but I suspect they are basically a one way bearing like the 250es uses before they used that design.
Just checked, the parts all interchange for 200e and 200es which I'm guessing all 3 of those machines fall under. I'd say pull the flywheel from the parts machine with the gear on it and put it in the problem child.
Oh, just wanted to be clear, your video says 200s, none of those machines are a 200s. Check the neck of the frame for the model sticker. The shaft drive one 100% is an 84 200es big red. I'm guessing the other two are 82 or 83 200e big reds which are chain drive, no reverse.
You can also look up the vin and engine serials to make sure there's no mismatched parts on my site linked below.
thanks you PS2Fixer
# 1 and #2 are both 200es shaft drives, number 3 is chain.
I said 200s thinking 200's (multiple 200cc bikes) not 200s, sorry for the confusion.
Ok, How do I remove the rotor to access the one way bearing?
Ok, I think I might have found the problem.
The drift key had come out and the flywheel was free spinning, one of the rollers from inside the flywheel came out and stuck to the magnet.
So I cleaned up the drift key and reset the rollers, I put grease on them to help hold them in place, I see now that the starter driven gear holds the rollers in place.
But how does the flywheel engage the starter driven gear? I see in the manual there is a spring that moves the plunger inside the flywheel, I did not find one in my bike.
Does the pin in the flywheel spring into the starter driven gear? I cant tell, since the starter driven gear is not keyed or splined it must engage the flywheel somehow.
Page 118 in the 1984 Honda 200es manual.
What does the plunger do?
Like I said before, I haven't taken one of these apart myself, but I've parted out the engines before. Normal working setup is when all installed together, when the starter turns the big gear behind the flywheel, it turns the fly wheel to start the engine. Once the engine is running, the gear isn't spinning any more. Effectively a one way bearing, or some sort of clutch system.
I'm pretty sure all the parts shown in the manual you'll need for it to operate. The part labeled as a plunger looks like it's just something for the spring to push against, and the plunger pushes against the roller from how I understand it.
This isn't the exact same thing and this relates to the kick start on the 250es which is the "newer" design, but it shows the one way nature of how it works. Clearly the 200es one uses a little bit of a different design, but the end goal sure but similar. The 250es has the same type of bearing on the flywheel and starter gear, but I couldn't find a video that showed it.
Just to be clear, the engine doesn't turn the starter while it's running, so somewhere it has to disconnect or slip. The stator (not starter) does all the charging and power for the ignition system. I'm guessing that roller acts like a one way bearing, where one way it will lock up, and the other way it slips or rolls, but it requires spring pressure to make it happen.
We have success, the drift key or wood-drift key, depending on who you talk to, had sheered and got hung up in the fly wheel gear, the Previous owner must have taken it apart at some point, and lost the caps and springs that hold the 3 roller bearing in there place (they were missing). I replaced the 3 rollers, springs and caps and key and it works great, lucky the key is sacrificial and didn't hurt any of the hardened gears.
Total repair cost less than $30 hard parts. not bad
MrC.
Good catch and thanks for reporting back, always interesting to know what the root cause was. At least it was a cheap repair besides the time of actually finding the problem and doing the actual repair =).
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