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Thread: 1985 200x starting issues.

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
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    4,114
    Yea, the CDI plug is like the best place to test for problems, if it fails the test at the plug then there's clearly a problem either in the harness or part, retesting right at the part will rule out the harness or not.

    FYI, most service manuals give ohm specs for the CDI itself but those are based on using an exact meter, a different model/brand might give different readings, so the test is likely unreliable. One of those parts where you test everything else, if all tests good then CDI is replaced. Not the best way to do things, but it requires a special tester that's not exactly cheap.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Georgia
    --
    86
    Thanks for the info I will post a response on what the readings are. I replaced all the wire ends and that helped a little and I had the float set wrong so now I am able to run the stock 40 jet in it again. I have not tested if that helped the problem but as soon as I do a test I will post what happened.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Georgia
    --
    86
    Ok here are all the readings. Primary ignition coil 1.0-1.1, secondary 2.9k-3k. CDI 1.6k Pulse generator values 95.6 hope this helps yall find if anything is bad.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    USA
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    Primary is slightly high, but probably just an inaccurate meter, it's close so most likely fine
    Secondary coil is at the bottom end range of acceptable, so in theory should work yet
    pulse generator looks like a perfect reading, so it sounds good.

    Not sure what the CDI reading means exactly, there's 5-6 wires lol, the test process is laid out as a table in the service manual lol.

    Did you grab the spark tester? I'm just wondering if that shows you have solid spark. You can run the engine with the tester hooked up. Manual says, if you directly ground the output pin, set to 6mm gap for testing, if you connect it to the spark plug, set to 4mm gap. Could start with a smaller gap and adjust bigger if it's too hard starting. You can physically see what the spark is doing at different rpm's and such. You could also swap parts back to stock and see if there's any changes, keep the best results in the machine. If spark tests good, I'd say it's a mechanical issue, ignition timing, mechanical timing, fuel flow, carb jetting (too lean/rich), etc.

    I didn't see a reading for the exciter coil (black/red wire to ground), that's the power source for the CDI and ultimately the ignition coil/spark energy. Reading is done on engine side of the connectors.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Georgia
    --
    86
    Sorry I thought the Manual met to test the thing on the cam lol here are the correct readings for the cdi. I converted the cdi box thing to a round plug instead of the square style I don’t know if that would mess it up though it’s been like this for 5-6 years. Anyways here are the readings for the 200s style plug that is on it. Sw-ext 7.10, SW-E1 23.50, SW-E2 23.50,
    SW-IGN infinity, EXT-SW 6.70, EXT-PC 24.50, EXT-E1 6.67 phew��, EXT-E2 6.67 phew again��, EXT-IGN infinity,
    PC-SW infinity, PC-EXT infinity, PC-E1 infinity, PC-E2 infinity, PC-IGN infinity,
    E1-SW infinity, E1-EXT infinity E1-PC 7.51, E1-IGN infinity,
    E2-SW infinity, E2-EXT infinity, E2-PC 7.51 E2,IGN infinity,
    IGN-SW infinity, IGN-EXT infinity, IGN-PC infinity, IGN-E1 infinity, IGN-E2 infinity. There are all the readings for the cdi test points.
    Last edited by Atc 200x 1985; 03-14-2020 at 01:28 PM.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
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    4,114
    Not sure what service manual you have, but here's the Honda one. As it says, it requires a special tester though, so your meter might not give the right figures. It doesn't show the pin out for the 84-85 CDI.



  7. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Georgia
    --
    86
    I don’t have that type of cdi unit I have the 200s type the round plug. I have a climber manual and the original manual that came with the three wheeler. I have just a multimeter set to ohms. That picture is the type of cdi I have.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
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    4,114
    Yea, they are the same, just different connectors. 83 got the 4+3 squared off connector while 84-85 200x got the round style. Basically all 84-85 Honda's got that connector and 86 it switched to the 4+2 style connector that was used for 10-15+ years.

    Anyway, the readings match the ranges that Honda gives, so in theory the CDI is good, but you can't really test the capacitor inside and such. I think the test only works to say if it failed the test, it's 100% bad, but if it passes the test, it does not mean it's actually good. Like testing the pulse generator, it can pass the ohm test, but if the gap is too big, it won't work.

    Btw, what's the numbers on your CDI? It's possible you have one for the wrong machine, like a 250es one wouldn't work on the 200x. Should be CF439 (965) for the stock unit.

    Also, how exactly did you get that 1.6k reading for blue/yellow to green/ground? If you did it at the CDI connector on the harness side, might be a bad wire in your harness or bad connection. You should have very close to the pulse generator spec, your test before said 95.6 ohms, so 1.6k means the wiring has 1,500 ohms of resistance if I'm guessing this correctly.


    Besides the curve ball 1.6k ohm reading, seems like the electronics test electronically good.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Georgia
    --
    86
    Yes I did to that on the harness side for those wires I believe that the cdi pickup thing on the cam is for a 200s I have the original one let me put that on there and I’ll get back to ya.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Georgia
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    86
    A little different on the starting seems to want to start easier now. Also the cdi box is correct for this Machine Cf439 is what it is.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
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    The 84+ ATC200S one should be very close, but the part number is different for some reason. Pretty sure the ohm spec is the same and it's the same basic design.

    If it's from an ATC185S or ATC200 it's the same part number. Also you can buy the whole rotor yet from Honda, but I'd think yours is fine as long as the magnet is still good.

    https://www.partzilla.com/product/ho...c86fffc6a46b39

    Make sure you set the gap on rotor to pickup coil (pulse generator) to 0.3-0.4mm, that's the spec, just like a points engine. Might have to bend the mounting bracket a little if there's no adjustment.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Georgia
    --
    86
    Yeah the magnet is fine I may not have the gap set correctly on it I’ll set it then get back to ya.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Georgia
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    86
    What would 0.4 look like on a feeler gauge? Im not a metric guy send me a picture of 0.4 please.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
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    4,114
    Just have to convert mm to in, I can remember the mm numbers so much easier than inches lol. Like spark plug gaps, ez 0.6-0.7mm.

    Google converts the numbers well =).

    0.3mm = 0.0118 in
    0.4mm = 0.0157 in

    so 12 thousands to 16 thousands

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Georgia
    --
    86
    Ah ok 0.012 would be correct?

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