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Thread: 87 200x Clutch Question

  1. #1
    jasong_10's Avatar
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    87 200x Clutch Question

    This question is probably below this section but I didn't see a "post new thread" button in the World Class Help section.

    Here's where I'm at, I've got two ATCs with very different clutch engagement points. My 250r clutch starts to grab as soon as you start to release the lever, my 200x doesn't grab until the lever is almost all the way released. I prefer the quicker engagement of the R. I've messed with the adjustments on the bar and on the case (on the X) but can't gain any ground. A couple buddies have said the cable is stretched and just needs to be replaced but I figured I would try messing with the adjusters first. Plus, looking at the clutch linkage setup (cable/arm/etc) I can't understand how a new/shorter cable is going to do the trick. One of the buddies also said that the adjusters are only for taking up slack in the cable, nothing more . . .

    I would appreciate any input here, thank you.
    Jason

    85 ATC 250R - restored stock other than 18" rears, nerf bars, Honda key switch, 14T front sprocket, and white tank and plastics (except rad shrouds)

    87 ATC 200X - restored stock other than 18" rears and nerf bars

    84 TRX 200 - rough but complete budget restore for wife and eventually daughters to bum around on

    Eton Viper 50cc - oldest daughter's current ride

  2. #2
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    I’m not familiar with your setup, but your buddy is correct about the adjusters being used just to take up slack. The length of the cable makes no difference... sort of. What will make a difference is the length of the cable sheath in relation to the cable length.

    Imagine two cables of identical lengths, but one has a shorter sheath than the other. The shorter the sheath the more cable is sticking out and that extra amount of cable might be your issue.

    The adjuster on your clutch lever perch is probably good for 1/2” of adjustment and the one on your cases if you have one that offers adjustment) is probably good for up to another 1/2” (there are different types, I’m guessing based on other brands I’m more familiar with)

    Is the lever on you clutch cover adjustable? By that I mean does it clamp to a splined shaft with a pinch bolt that allows you to move it? If so that could be what you need to adjust, but assuming it doesn’t or you’d have tried that already.

    So, if you’ve fully turned in the adjuster on your bar and on the case, or clutch cover and your clutch still isn’t engaging as soon as you start to release the lever the cause could be:


    - You have an aftermarket cable that’s a little off
    - You have an aftermarket clutch lever and/or perch that is different from the oem dimensions
    - Your clutch plates are completely worn out
    - A plate is missing from your clutch pack
    - Your cable is fraying and will break very soon (I doubt this)

    If there’s something else related specifically to your model hopefully someone else will chime in.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by El Camexican; 07-26-2020 at 08:38 AM.

  3. #3
    jasong_10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Camexican View Post
    Imagine two cables of identical lengths, but one has a shorter sheath than the other. The shorter the sheath the more cable is sticking out and that extra amount of cable might be your issue.


    Is the lever on you clutch cover adjustable? By that I mean does it clamp to a splined shaft with a pinch bolt that allows you to move it? If so that could be what you need to adjust, but assuming it doesn’t or you’d have tried that already.
    Could a cable stretching over 30 plus years simulate the issue you're rdferring to?

    Hadn't actually thought of looking at the arm on the case, I'll check that out tonight. Thank you.
    Last edited by jasong_10; 07-26-2020 at 04:06 PM.
    Jason

    85 ATC 250R - restored stock other than 18" rears, nerf bars, Honda key switch, 14T front sprocket, and white tank and plastics (except rad shrouds)

    87 ATC 200X - restored stock other than 18" rears and nerf bars

    84 TRX 200 - rough but complete budget restore for wife and eventually daughters to bum around on

    Eton Viper 50cc - oldest daughter's current ride

  4. #4
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    Motion Pro has always been a source for me. I’m sure since their move to a new HQ things are more normal now.
    Have you ever replaced the wear/friction and steel plates, and inner clutch springs? That has more to do with engagement than the cable.
    Last edited by Tri-Z 250; 07-26-2020 at 07:36 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasong_10 View Post
    Could a cable stretching over 30 plus years simulate the issue you're rdferring to?
    Unless it’s starting to fray I doubt it.

    Can you post a clear photo of the cable and arm at the engine?
    Last edited by El Camexican; 07-26-2020 at 07:49 PM.

  6. #6
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    I recently replaced friction plates, springs and replaced original cable with new motion pro cable. Did not really make a difference at the lever feel or adjustment wise. I have heard about an ASV clutch lever assembly that really makes a big difference in feel an adjustment, more precise i think is the word. Just like you i was expecting improvement, still get the feel of new cable too long for some reason but never messed with adjusting it very long, didn't seem to be getting better.

  7. #7
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    Just a thought...Are the springs in the clutch the original OEM 87 200x springs? They may have been replaced with aftermarket springs at one time or another. The 86 200x and 87 200x had different length clutch springs. They both fit, but the 87 springs are shorter and the clutch engages a little quicker than the 86.

  8. #8
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    After reading dirtwheels post and learning some things, I wanted to add that mine is an 86 and I used the Barnett clutch package with springs and discs.
    I couldn't tell a difference in the effort it takes to pull in the lever. Once the lever is almost fully released, that's when the clutch jumps in with more authority than before.
    Does not seem to want to engage unless the lever is fully released.
    Edit...as far as the steel plates go they looked fine but I did not mike those. The basket was great and friction plates i replaced really didnt look horrible but they were origional.
    Last edited by fieldy; 07-27-2020 at 08:09 AM.

  9. #9
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    I’ll save the old steel plates but when going through the effort of the job at hand, it’s new parts all the way through. They may mic just fine, but be groves on the surface plus heat over time could harden them slightly. If it works good enough just run it.

  10. #10
    jasong_10's Avatar
    jasong_10 is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerAt the back of the pack
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tri-Z 250 View Post
    Motion Pro has always been a source for me. Iím sure since their move to a new HQ things are more normal now.
    Have you ever replaced the wear/friction and steel plates, and inner clutch springs? That has more to do with engagement than the cable.
    I haven't done anything with it, the clutch seems to function properly, it just engages later than I'd prefer. Based on what fieldy posted below I might just have to deal with it, lol.
    Jason

    85 ATC 250R - restored stock other than 18" rears, nerf bars, Honda key switch, 14T front sprocket, and white tank and plastics (except rad shrouds)

    87 ATC 200X - restored stock other than 18" rears and nerf bars

    84 TRX 200 - rough but complete budget restore for wife and eventually daughters to bum around on

    Eton Viper 50cc - oldest daughter's current ride

  11. #11
    jasong_10's Avatar
    jasong_10 is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerAt the back of the pack
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Camexican View Post
    Unless it’s starting to fray I doubt it.

    Can you post a clear photo of the cable and arm at the engine?
    Okay. I'll try to get a pic Wednesday when I'm off from work.
    Jason

    85 ATC 250R - restored stock other than 18" rears, nerf bars, Honda key switch, 14T front sprocket, and white tank and plastics (except rad shrouds)

    87 ATC 200X - restored stock other than 18" rears and nerf bars

    84 TRX 200 - rough but complete budget restore for wife and eventually daughters to bum around on

    Eton Viper 50cc - oldest daughter's current ride

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasong_10 View Post
    I haven't done anything with it, the clutch seems to function properly, it just engages later than I'd prefer. Based on what fieldy posted below I might just have to deal with it, lol.
    I may try a smaller clutch perch assembly that isn't so far away from the bar if I win the lottery, like a shorty lever assembly.
    I remember driving it when it was new in 86. Never bothered me but kinda remember it being like that, didn't go until you let go of the lever.
    I bet the guys that used to race them could help. Powroll had a test in a magazine and seems like they just used a clutch kit, however I am sure they dialed all that in. Come on Powroll dudes...how do you fix it. Short springs sounds like as stated above.

  13. #13
    jasong_10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtwheels View Post
    Just a thought...Are the springs in the clutch the original OEM 87 200x springs? They may have been replaced with aftermarket springs at one time or another. The 86 200x and 87 200x had different length clutch springs. They both fit, but the 87 springs are shorter and the clutch engages a little quicker than the 86.
    I've only had it since March, but based on what I've ran into tinkering with it so far I think it's completely stock.
    Jason

    85 ATC 250R - restored stock other than 18" rears, nerf bars, Honda key switch, 14T front sprocket, and white tank and plastics (except rad shrouds)

    87 ATC 200X - restored stock other than 18" rears and nerf bars

    84 TRX 200 - rough but complete budget restore for wife and eventually daughters to bum around on

    Eton Viper 50cc - oldest daughter's current ride

  14. #14
    jasong_10's Avatar
    jasong_10 is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerAt the back of the pack
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    Quote Originally Posted by fieldy View Post
    After reading dirtwheels post and learning some things, I wanted to add that mine is an 86 and I used the Barnett clutch package with springs and discs.
    I couldn't tell a difference in the effort it takes to pull in the lever. Once the lever is almost fully released, that's when the clutch jumps in with more authority than before.
    Does not seem to want to engage unless the lever is fully released.
    Edit...as far as the steel plates go they looked fine but I did not mike those. The basket was great and friction plates i replaced really didnt look horrible but they were origional.
    Thanks for the input, looks like I might just have to deal with the late engagement point.
    Jason

    85 ATC 250R - restored stock other than 18" rears, nerf bars, Honda key switch, 14T front sprocket, and white tank and plastics (except rad shrouds)

    87 ATC 200X - restored stock other than 18" rears and nerf bars

    84 TRX 200 - rough but complete budget restore for wife and eventually daughters to bum around on

    Eton Viper 50cc - oldest daughter's current ride

  15. #15
    jasong_10's Avatar
    jasong_10 is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerAt the back of the pack
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    Quote Originally Posted by fieldy View Post
    I may try a smaller clutch perch assembly that isn't so far away from the bar if I win the lottery, like a shorty lever assembly.
    I remember driving it when it was new in 86. Never bothered me but kinda remember it being like that, didn't go until you let go of the lever.
    I bet the guys that used to race them could help. Powroll had a test in a magazine and seems like they just used a clutch kit, however I am sure they dialed all that in. Come on Powroll dudes...how do you fix it. Short springs sounds like as stated above.
    Yeah, won't be the end of the world if I can't get it changed but I'm willing to try some little things. I messed around with the adjustments and I'd be willing to try a new cable because even if it doesn't change anything, I'd at least still have a new cable in there. At this point I'm not willing to tear into a clutch that I believe is working the way it should.

    +1 on the Powroll guys chiming in
    Jason

    85 ATC 250R - restored stock other than 18" rears, nerf bars, Honda key switch, 14T front sprocket, and white tank and plastics (except rad shrouds)

    87 ATC 200X - restored stock other than 18" rears and nerf bars

    84 TRX 200 - rough but complete budget restore for wife and eventually daughters to bum around on

    Eton Viper 50cc - oldest daughter's current ride

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