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Thread: Motor painting and prep

  1. #1
    BarnBoy is offline Just Too Addicted Arm chair racerJust too addicted
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    Motor painting and prep

    First off I'd like to thank both Dirtcrasher and El Camexican for the help and correspondence on this project. Im definitely using ideas from you guys to try and make this thing work out.

    As some of you may know, I'm in the middle of rebuilding and frame off restoring my '84 200M. Part of that process was tearing the motor down, blasting the cases, and rebuilding it. I decided to paint the motor once it was all assembled, instead of when I had the cases bare.

    I scuffed the cases with scotchbrite, wiped with acetone on a microfibre cloth, and then lightly used a tack cloth to make sure I got all the particles. Paint used was VHT engine enamel for the silver, and PJ1 fast black for the black side cases. No primer.

    When I painted it, the day kinda turned out wrong and it started spitting rain. I dont remember the exact temperature but it was probably at least 70 or so. Anyway, I got it all painted up, then decided to coat it again. The can said to apply all coats within 1 hr or after 7 days. I applied maybe 3 coats (1 can) within that hour. Then used a heat gun to cure the paint while it was drying, as suggested on the can (can actually says 1 hr @ 200 degrees)

    I ended up getting a 2nd can of paint to touch up a few spots. Before applying the 2nd round about a week later, I scuffed lightly with gray scotchbrite and used an air compressor to blow off any debris. I actually had a spot or 2 that the mere blowing with the air compressor flaked off some of the paint. I blew off all I could, then sanded, wiped off and made sure no more was loose. Then applied the next coat.

    Then I waited till a week later, used blue painters tape and masked off the engine so I could paint the left side covers black. Painted it with PJ1, waited 2 days like the PJ1 can said. Then I removed the tape, and the problems started. Paint started peeling from both the VHT and the PJ1. If I brush it with a wire brush the paint is tough, and won't come off. But if I get underneath it, it will peel up like an orange. So I get to scraping, and basically the whole motor will peel.

    Really sucks cause I spent so much time trying to get it right and now the exact thing I was trying to avoid happened. But no use crying over spilt milk, gotta try and make the best of it.

    I considered tearing down and powder coating or Cerakoting. But looks like that will cost $4-500 along with tearing the whole thing back apart, which I don't care to do. I could tear down and repaint, but then again, I gotta rip it apart and that won't be fun.

    I'm going to try and strip and repaint it as-is, I can't be the first to have this happen.

    So, I'm looking for options and opinions on not only what I might use to strip the motor as-is, and also what steps I should take to avoid these issues next time. Any ideas are helpful!

    Attached a few pics....

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    1984 HONDA ATC200M - OG, mid-restoration
    1981 HONDA ATC200 - future build
    1981 HONDA ATC185S - parts
    1984 ATC200X - roller, future build
    1984 Honda ATC250r - in a million pieces- ISO grab bar, PM if you have one

    Da velder
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  2. #2
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    man, I know that is a lot of work. I would call around to a few automotive paint shops, and see what they would charge if you did all the prep, and they just sprayed it with automotive grade engine paint.

    MrC.
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  3. #3
    jasong_10's Avatar
    jasong_10 is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerAt the back of the pack
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    I agree with MrC. They might not want to monkey around with having you come in and re-prep it for the second color, but I'm sure it would hold up better and be worth the $$.
    Jason

    85 ATC 250R - restored stock other than 18" rears, nerf bars, Honda key switch, 14T front sprocket, and white tank and plastics (except rad shrouds)

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  4. #4
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    I haven't used this in a while, because it's not as readily available at stores like it used to be, but Plastikote was some of the best spray can engine enamel I've ever used.

    https://www.plastikote.com/products/...ne-Enamel.html


    I recall that Plastikote was less expensive and held up better than my past and recent experiences with VHT.

    Engines and parts that I painted with Plastikote are still holding up good years later. About all that's on the local store shelves anymore is Rustoleum, VHT, Krylon, and house brands.
    The story of three wheels and a man...

  5. #5
    BarnBoy is offline Just Too Addicted Arm chair racerJust too addicted
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    Thanks Mr. C and Jason, I hadn't really considered that option. I'll call around and get a quote. For the 2nd colour I could always just remove those 2 side covers and paint separate.

    ATCKing, thanks for the recommendation, I always thought plastikote was an inferior product. Or at least something you'd spray on a indoor piece or just wanted a quick cheep job.

    Do you have any pics of the engines? Also what bad experience should did you have with VHT?
    1984 HONDA ATC200M - OG, mid-restoration
    1981 HONDA ATC200 - future build
    1981 HONDA ATC185S - parts
    1984 ATC200X - roller, future build
    1984 Honda ATC250r - in a million pieces- ISO grab bar, PM if you have one

    Da velder
    _______________________________________________
    Feedback:
    http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthr...ck-for-Barnboy

  6. #6
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    VHT is an enamel and PJ1 may be a lacquer paint.....which won't mix without problems.

    If I were you I would be tempted to do what MrC said but I would strip absolutely everything off best I can and power wash with a degreaser then "pickle" the metal with phosphoric acid (clr, lime away,etc). Heck with a air compressor and a cheapo harbor frieght gun you can shoot some automotive grade paint yourself and get a more durable finish to oils and gas than any PJ1 or VHT could give

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarnBoy View Post
    ATCKing, thanks for the recommendation, I always thought plastikote was an inferior product. Or at least something you'd spray on a indoor piece or just wanted a quick cheep job.

    Do you have any pics of the engines? Also what bad experience should did you have with VHT?
    I had the same problem as you with the VHT; peeling.

    We could have both been doing something wrong, I'm not saying VHT is bad paint, but I've used other paints like Plastikote in the exact same manner and it didn't peel.

    I know a lot of people would argue that VHT and PJ1 are great paints, and their argument would be valid, but I haven't found either of those to be superior to other lesser priced products I've used.

    VHT has worked fine for me on exhaust parts, but I don't think any better than other high temp spray can paints. It certainly won't stay on car headers, just the same as any other brand. Those need professional coating.
    The story of three wheels and a man...

  8. #8
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    The only thing we could think of was maybe you went too thick. I would apply much lighter coats, try it on some motor you have laying around as a tester. Scuff it up, wipe it with paint thinner and blow it off, I'd skip the tack cloth if your not in a dusty area. I know, it shouldn't matter but eliminate acetone and the tack cloth on one of your graveyard cases and see how it goes.

    When I powder a motor I assemble the whole bottom end, empty. I grind the heads of the screws down (so once removed paint will get covered by the full screw head) and use 2 screws per cover. I know it's all together or I'd have you send it to me and I'd powder it for you... I do a similar method on the top end. I even did a whole motor, hated the PC I chose and stripped it with gel stripper immediately, now it's Elsinore red.

    Kind of funny how throughout our lives we paint things and if one drop gets on something nearby it sticks like hell! Then we find issues with the paint on the part we actually wanted painted

    You did ALL the right things, that's why this is so frustrating.
    All our government does is distract us while they steal from us, misspend our tax $ and ruin our country

  9. #9
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    I had a similar issue with my exhaust header using the VHT high temp stuff. I prepped it exactly as the can said. Sprayed 3 light coats all within an hour of each other and even baked in the oven at the recommended temp. Was flaking off after the first ride. Disappointing for sure. I'd recommend shelling out the $$ and powdering it. If you spent this much effort already you will regret not doing it right after its all back together and not how you really wanted it. I take the same philosophy with all my home improvements. Regret the cost once instead of regretting for a long time not spending the extra money and getting it done the way you really wanted it.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtcrasher View Post
    Kind of funny how throughout our lives we paint things and if one drop gets on something nearby it sticks like hell! Then we find issues with the paint on the part we actually wanted painted.
    That ain’t no lie!

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