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Thread: Off Grid lighting (solar powered lights in shipping container storage building)

  1. #1
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    Apr 2012
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    Off Grid lighting (solar powered lights in shipping container storage building)

    I'm sure I've mentioned it a couple times, I bought a couple shipping containers which are amazing price vs value for their usable size. I live out in the country so I have land area and don't have to have the prettiest house on the block to please the city ordinance overlords.

    Anyway, one issue I have is lighting. My house is around 150-200 feet away from them and being 40ft long even in the day time it can be hard to see stuff near the back. I figured I'd document what I do so other's with sheds or similar type of lighting needs can follow along. It's not super cheap, but it should end up being cheaper than running power all the way out. Of course being off grid, you have limits, like you can't leave the lights on 24/7 or you'll kill the battery in a hurry.

    Here's my plans currently.

    12v 20ah sealed lead acid battery
    ~100w solar panel. Harbor freight has one for $75 but the website says they can't deliver to my store. I'll have to go in there some time and ask them about it.
    LED light strips, day light (~6000k color temp) lights using the 5050 SMD LED's and 12v design.
    14-2 gauge outdoor wire to be more than plenty heavy enough for all planned loads.
    Solar/wind charge controller

    Here's a little math to see how well (or bad) my balance is for the parts. The battery really could be a bit larger but I don't plan to work in the shipping container light at night time for too long normally.

    Sun hours for my area is about 4, so 100w rating * 4hr = 400wh per day of perfect sunlight. 400wh/12v = 33ah charging capacity roughly (the battery should be around 80% efficient), so even if I completely drain the battery, it should recharge in one day of sunlight. I think the solar panel is probably about twice as much as I really need but having the extra output is nice. The other spec to check out is the max charge rate, listing says 10-20% of battery capacity, so up to 4 amps (48w). I guess that means I can't get the battery to charge 100% in one day, but real close at around 16ah that the battery will take. Seems like the 50w solar panel size is a little more ideal for this small setup.

    Now for the battery sizing calc. I'm kind of doing this a bit backwards from what you should really do it, like figure out your needs (my case lighting) and size the battery, then size the solar panels. Anyway, the LED light strips I'm using should be 36w per strip (around 16ft). I'm using two, but the one near the door will be controlled by the door and the rear one will be on a switch. Since it's pretty easy math, 36w/12v = 3 amps of draw, so the 20ah battery gives me 6.7hr of run time with one strip on and half of that with both on. That's more on the low end of what I should be targeting probably, but I expect in a 3 day span that I won't be in the shipping container long enough to drain the battery once and generally it's a good idea to target around 3 days of capacity for the battery size. I would double the battery size, but they add up in cost pretty fast. I didn't check what a golf cart battery would cost locally (120ah), kind of overkill for this project, but the 50ah ones are $110 online, worst case I could buy a 2nd 20ah battery to bump it to 40ah capacity for around $80 total. For a larger setup a "fork truck" battery is probably more ideal, I think the battery is a L-16 if I recall correctly and pretty sure they were 240ah rated. Anyway, 6hr+ run time I'd be pretty happy with, 90% of the time I'll probably be only using the lights for a few minutes and most of the time it will be during the day when the solar panel is making excess power.

    The electrical I'm planning to make a plate to bolt some sort of framing to to hold the solar panel on the top corner of the shipping container. I don't like the idea of holes in the roof so I'll probably be poking through the wall and sealing the hole up. The battery will be in the same corner as the solar panel to keep the wire run nice and short. Clearly everything from then on will be going to the battery for the power source.

    I plan to put a magnetic reed valve switch on the main door, so when it's open the front lights are on. I also want to have an override to turn the light off if for some reason I need the door left open but don't want the light on. Roughly half way back will be where the second switch should be located. Should be a solid layout since I'll already be heading that direction when the back lights would be needed.

    I actually have two shipping containers, so the 100w solar panel and doubling up the batteries should get me in the ball park range I'd want to be for both systems tied to the same batteries. For now it's just a proof of concept. The shipping containers don't get a ton of sunlight during the day, so I might have to upgrade to two solar panels (or one larger one). At least on paper it seems to be reasonable. If all goes well, I plan to trench and pipe the power from one container to the other and poke through the floor in the corners.

    Anyway, anything I'm missing? Also is my math off anywhere?

    I've been looking at off grid setups for quite a while now, this is kind of the project to get my feet wet. Solar panels have dropped greatly in price since I first started looking, still kind of waiting for battery prices or tech to get more affordable and I might build a whole house system, something like 4kw solar panel array. That's defo for another time though since that system is around $10k investment and break even is something like 8 years or so and the batteries probably last around 10 years on average.

  2. #2
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    Apr 2012
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    USA
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    Here's the door switch I settled on, pack of two for $14 shipped. They are only rated for 10w, so that means I need to wire up a relay for it to activate to cover the light draw. I have two options on the wiring, I could make both sections of light go through the switch, so when the door is shut, all the lights turn off including the rear ones, or I could run only the front ones off the switch for simpler wiring and the rear lights will have to be manually turned off else the battery will be drained dead.



    I'll have to get a pic of the shipping containers and such so the thread has something more interesting than just a big wall of text xD. I have most of the parts I need ordered, now to wait for the shipping process.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
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    US
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    I like it. Been thinking of doing something like this on my shed.

    Sent from my ASUS_I001DC using Tapatalk

  4. #4
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    Jul 2003
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    I have no input on the topic, other than I wish I understood electricity. I can build an engine out of boxes, or water service for a whole town but I dont even like putting a new plug on an extension cord!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    USA
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    If you understand water pipes, you have the mental capacity to understand electronics. Just about everything electrical can be represented as water flow and pipe sizes and such. This is a fairly complicated subject like actual early circuit design level stuff. The black T's are one way valves that only allows the water to flow in one direction. Him moving the water back and forth simulates how the power flows for AC power (it vibrates back and forth 60 times per second, which is 60hz for usa).



    A resistor is the same thing as a section of water pipe that's smaller in diameter, it restricts the flow. More basic electrical, like just wiring stuff up, the wire size and length is like a pipe. The bigger the wire (pipe size) the more amps it can handle (water flow). The voltage is what everyone seems to think of when talking about electricity, and that's kind of like the pressure of the system. I'm no expert in water systems, but I understand most things like water which exists in electronics in some capacity.

    For some reason the home depot site says the 100w panel they offer can't be shipped to me or the store, but I went to the store yesterday and the lady said on her machine it's not a problem. Maybe it was a supply shortage or something like that, either case, about $78 shipped for a 100w 12v panel (suitable for RV, camping, etc type of usage). Hopefully the true voltage runs around 13.5-14.5v so it can charge a battery.

    Here's a pic of what I have so far. Left to right (kind of atleast) is:

    14 gauge wire (2 wires in 1 housing, kind of like house wire with 3 wires)
    magnetic reed switches (door open/close detection)
    DC timer - Side project, but it's to put between the battery and inverter and it will be for keeping car batteries topped up.
    LED light strip

    I also have some other stuff but that's stuff I ordered online.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Arkansas
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    I've been using one of these low price charge controllers.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/30A-Solar-P...YAAOSwLc9fjpxu

    They are available in different amperages. I noticed there are newer versions available, but it looks like maybe just the packaging changed. In all, they're very simple to program and seem to work well enough for a low powered system, like for just running lights as you're doing.


    Have you considered future video surveillance? Not that you should totally rely on solar for that in a low budget system, but having solar motion activated lights really improves surveillance camera quality and function. The IR on lower cost camera systems does OK close-up, but if you add a motion light, they'll pick up a lot more detail further away and if you have the surveillance system set to motion, the lights will trigger it much more reliably and at lower camera motion sensitivity (fewer false triggers, less video to watch for an event).

    If you're going to invest more into property, camera systems are getting better at lower cost all the time too. You may want to start planning your solar system to incorporate or aid in functionality of those. Video doesn't stop theft, but it can deter it, and record evidence for police and court. I can be in bed at night, hear something (silent motion alarms on property too), and look at my phone (dedicated phone, no SIM) to see anything before I grab a light and pistol and go outside. No internet either, I use old Wi-Fi routers on each independent system, direct to the phone, no middle man and each phone paired with router (no password available, harder to hack for novices).
    Last edited by ATC King; 12-11-2020 at 10:21 PM.
    The story of three wheels and a man...

  7. #7
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    Apr 2012
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    That's pretty similar to my charge controllers, I just bought them a lot longer ago so they were even more basic, I think they were 20amp rated.

    Since this is my first project for off grid stuff, I figured I'd keep the sizes fairly small just to get my feet wet and get the hands on experience. I haven't fully figured out how exactly I'm going to mount the solar panel, I'm thinking attaching to the top corner block on the shipping container and a pipe with an adjustable mount to get the angle right for winter vs summer.

    Camera systems aren't a bad idea. My dad has a system on his property, but it's a very old system, analog cameras to a main "server" that records the video of each camera on hard drives. The long distances of some of the cables made for real low quality video, but I know going digital or wireless when possible gets around the analog limits. Having something paired up to the router with no password is kind of odd, are you talking about a WPS connection? I have a really good router, but it doesn't reach to the shipping containers, it's around 200ft away and through some light woods so the recording/storage system would likely have to be inside the shipping container. The next issue is temps, we get pretty cold winters, around -10F for the coldest week of the year and most electronics are not suitable for the low of temp.

    I've went a slightly different route, and I got a cheap "drive way alarm" system, basically a door bell goes off when there's motion detected (IR based). The base to sensor can be up to 1/2 mile away. It has worked pretty well for me to alert me of anyone in the drive way. I've caught the neighbor's dog digging at the rocks on the side of my drive way where it drains (low point of the drive way), and when I get packages, I actually can be prepared for them when they come to the door and also I can mention it when a delivery attempt is falsely claimed (happened once). The only issue is, I've had deer trip it a few times, and when the road is graded it sometimes trips off, but it's near the road so not much can be done to avoid that. Also moving plants can trip it, so I did have to knock down some weeds that was in the path it monitors. The base can accept 4 different zones, I'm not sure if it's limited to only 4 transmitters, or 4 zones but unlimited transmitters, of my understand it's unlimited though. There's a switch on the bottom to change which zone each sensor is for. Also the base has 4x AAA cells, so if the power goes out, it can power off the batteries for a while, a week comes to mind but not sure where I read/heard that. The actual sensors also have a 18650 cell and a small solar panel on top to recharge it. So far the battery hasn't died, it's in a less than ideal location (my whole property is wooded, no full sun spots). It gets around 1-2hr of high sun light. Earlier and later it's all in shadows. Seems to be a pretty cheap option for the alert, and the volume can be set fairly loud.

    https://www.hosmartmall.com/products...sor-detector-1

    I mainly got that for UPS and Fedex packages because I miss them sometimes when I don't hear them come in the drive way, and they don't like to knock, just drop the package and run to the truck. I'm way out in the country, and crime is nearly non-existent here, atleast I don't see many stories about theft and such. No reason to not be prepared, but it's not current a top priority.

    For an actual camera system, I'd probably have to get hard wired Ethernet camera and hook them to a router with an external directional antenna (like a satellite dish) and do something similar at the house to receive it and pass the connection to the server/recording device. I'm not a fan of anything that connects to the internet so it would be a dedicated network not connected to my main in house internet. Being a computer guy, it's possible to use the same equipment for 2 networks like that through VLANs.




    One thing I don't see is a battery 12v to true 12v voltage regulator. I haven't searched too hard for it, but the LED's I grabbed spec for 12v DC and the resistors and assuming some numbers lines up for it to be designed for 13v max. A charging battery should be 13.5-14.5v so the LED's will be slightly over voltage if I didn't condition the power at all. Maybe I should just cheat and throw in 2 diodes in line to drop it ~1.4v, so 14.5v would be 13.1v max which should be close enough to be safe. I've read the LED light strips used for whip lights are the same light strips, and unconditioned they don't last too long, same issue for them I suspect, the LED's are being hit with too much voltage and they are allowed to draw too much current and they are doing their thermo runaway issue.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Arkansas
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    I'm interested in what your solution will be for the cold temps. Tech or physical.

    The shop has all LED lighting in it now, because I finally got tired of waiting on the fluorescent lights to warm up first thing in the morning during the winter. It's also more expensive to replace just a ballast than the whole fixture anymore.

    Definitely anything with software slows down or outright stops working when it passes a temp threshold. A major flaw of lithium batteries.


    Those solar driveway alarms are nice. Easy to install and maintain. Some have a external charge port, so they can be topped off if the solar can't keep up. It's nice the system can function without external power too, that's a major feature for any security device.


    The router I'm using is plugged directly to the camera system LAN. It's only being used to connect the app on the phone with the system. Just had to reconfigure some things on the router. The system is in one location, with no internet connection, but through the router I can use the app to see everything on the system and also change system settings. The phone has no SIM, no plan, and every other unused app has been uninstalled. It's only used for that system. Nothing is unhackable, but not putting that Chinese system, which undoubtedly has a backdoor, onto the internet is a good start at maintaining privacy. Even if anyone can see their house from a 1,000 miles away and call the police if there's an intruder, the police will still get there after the fact. It's the video that's important; the evidence. All those Chinese security cameras and doorbells people are putting on and in their homes and connecting to the internet, is a nightmare. Most people aren't any level of tech savvy and oblivious to the dangers those devices expose them to. Look how many router passwords and SSIDs are never even changed from the factory default, much less all the issues with cell phone security and buried permissions. Phone carriers record locations and use, apps even record people's biometric data thanks to the fitness watch fad. Eeeek!

    I don't use wireless cameras, because they still require a power wire to be run, the signal is prone to interference and is another security risk. The more wifi connected devices on the property, the more potential for interference. With wired systems, cameras are less expensive, so I can install more of them. Also, I like to run multiple systems, so video is recorded to more than one hard drive. If someone breaks in and finds the drive, they still don't have it all, and many of the cameras overlap, so I have more than one perspective. Some of those wifi systems want the owner to record stuff to that innocent sounding cloud thing. No way Jose!
    The story of three wheels and a man...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    Haha, yea the cloud, aka someone else's computer, or in the tech world, a standard server, or group of servers. The cloud is just a buzz word. Long ago a group of servers was called a cluster, was really a pain to setup and the benefits weren't all that great. Anymore networking and such have gotten so good that things scale well across servers, so a tech company can buy cheaper servers and more of them to tune their system to their needs. Like database needs med grade processors, but fast and a lot of drives for storage. Several servers working together is a cheap way to expand the capacity vs buying a single server that can house say 48 drives. The whole cloud logic is setup so if one server crashes/dies, the other's have the info as well so the system continues unaffected. Same with adding servers, they can add a server to increase capacity and not have to shut down the system to update it. The design is pretty amazing, but most of the software that does that you have limited control over, I've looked into it a bit for database systems before, but I like the tried and tested mysql database server.

    I didn't really think about the issue for the charge controller and the cold. The one I have is very basic, no controls or anything on it, just a solar hook up, battery, and load. The way it shows to connect is the battery hook up is only for batteries, and the load side is to have the low voltage cutoff work. If the batteries are fully charged and the solar panel is putting out power, it will push the power directly to the load terminals and leave the batteries fully charged. I know the one you linked has some sort of micro controller in it, I'd assume the one I have likely has one too though.

    Also fun fact, that listing is confusing as hell for specs lol. It states 30amp in the title, yet the images says max load 240w for 12v and 480w for 24v, that's 20amp capacity then. Anything you run directly off the batteries isn't part of the system, just if you draw more power than it can charge, the battery will drain. Also the actual load spec shows 120w max but gives no voltage reference, I'd assume 12v, so 10amp max. Sounds to me it's a 20amp max charger, 10amp max load, maybe 20+10 = 30amp in their mind? lol

    I also understand what you're talking about on the security system now. It's hard wired network and the cellphone connects via wifi to the system, but neither has an internet connection. I assumed the cellphone would run through the internet since that's the non-tech way they are normally setup, and as you stated, so much less secure. If a company is receiving the data, they can also watch, monitor, process, etc the data. If they see it, likely nsa has a tie into it and the chances of hackers getting in is so much higher than a system with no internet connection. It pretty much boils down to a hacker having to get within wifi range to target you in that case, which for a camera system isn't unlikely, but it is unlikely a thief is also a hacker, or even computer savvy since they would have the capacity to make a good income legitimately.

    For now my plan is to just run the system in the cold and see how it does. The charge process will make a little heat to keep the controller warm, a fully charge battery doesn't freeze in my area. Car and such generally have no starting problems for their electronics, just lower voltage and capacity for the battery due to the cold. The cheap OBD2 scanner I have for monitoring mpg really hates cold temps around 10-0f and lower, the screen displays nothing for a few minus till it warms up. I've had it draw power even after "sleeping" and kill my battery before, so I don't run it much anymore. I have a ScanGauge, and I've had it about the same amount of time in another vehicle, and it's been problem free, but it hasn't been actually powered on in the more extreme code as often (car vs truck).

    If I actually have to run some sort of heater to keep the system working right, maybe boxing in the battery and charge controller with a small vent outside for charging would work well enough, could insulate the box and ideally the charging heat would keep it within a usable temp range. If it's too hot for the summer, I could program an Arduino to turn on a fan when it's too hot inside the box to vent the heat out assuming the rest of the container isn't super hot. Hottest part of the day is when the sun is high in the sky, so there should be excess power to burn off anyway. In theory the same could be done for winter too but in reverse, heater to burn off excess power after the battery is fully charged, again an Arduino would likely have to be used to cycle it. I've already used an Arduino for a thermostat for my house, it's so nice having complete control over how things function.





    For those trying to follow along but don't get the math, here's how I come up with those numbers: watts / volts = amps, so for example 240w/12v = 20a.

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